30-30 imp. ?

[slimster]

I have read about Paco's version of the 30-30-imp. and am interested in finding out more. Is it simply the 7-30 Waters necked up to 30 or does it also have the 40 degree shoulder that Ackley's version had? Does anybody have a case blueprint for the round? Thanks! Slim

[Hobie]

My memory might be failing me but I believe that Paco used the Ackley Improved version. It is NOT a necked up 7-30 as it preceeded Ken Waters' 7-30 round.


courtesy of Steve Ricciardelli

[penates]

It is a pretty common caliber in TC Contenders, gives you another 200 - 300 fps.

[O.S.O.K.]

You mean like these?



These are standard 30-30 Ackley Improved. I don't know about Paco's version.

I just rechambered a 30-30 Numrich barrel and installed it on a 94 action.

Those loads pictured gave 2587 fps at the top end for the Speer 150 grain flat noses.

I've got some loads made up with 1/2 grain more powder that should give me 2600+. My rifle has a 26" barrel so this is no trick. 40 Grains of W748 - a maximum load that should still be within the normal 30-30 pressure level.

The 20" carbine barrels are good for 2500 fps.

I have no idea how these compare to the 7-30 Waters but as you can see it has a very practical shape and I can tell you they feed and function 100%.

Fireforming is simply shooting standard 30-30 loads in the AI chamber. Lee makes RGB die sets which is what I have.

I neck size mine and crimp lightly to avoid buckling the shoulder. I also trim the cases and use a Lyman "VLD" inside chamferer to help the bullets seat without pushing the neck down. It works well.

[william iorg]

Paco’s version of the .30-30 Improved is more like Gary Reader’s – I believe they are the same cartridge. This version has the shoulder blown further forward for more powder capacity and a shorter neck.

Edit] Sorry about the spelling of Reeder. Here is a link to the picture of the cartridge. A different kitty from the Ackley cartridge.

http://www.reedercustomguns.com/tc/cont ... d30gnr.gif

[slimster]

Thanks guys. Hobie, I found where I got that in my head from. It was from Paco's article right here on this site called "7.62x51 Revisited" in the article section. Here is the quote:"The only difference in my 30 Imp and Ackley’s was my design keeps his 35 degree shoulder angle and body shape, but I move the shoulder forward. Where Ackley keeps the neck length at the standard case of over 4 tenths of an inch...I move it forward to the length of the 7 Waters case just over 3 tenths of an inch. I can neck up 7 Waters cases...or as I did in the old days load cast bullets in the 30-30 cases way out, so they would go into the rifling and then fire form so the case doesn’t stretch at the web. Once fire formed correctly...even the normal stretching of the standard 30-30 case from resizing and firing is almost eliminated." I'm still a little confused though because I was thinking that Ackley used a 40 degree shoulder on his version where Paco states that it is a 35 degree shoulder. Paco probably has had many Ackley guns, but I have seen several references to his own version in various articles. William Iorg , thanks for our input too. I know from reading many of your posts on several forums that you definately know "from whence you come" in regards to the 30-30 Ackley! It looks to me as though Paco's version has a neck/shoulder junction somewhere between the Ackley and the Reeder version. Thats why I was interested in more info as I feel that there is not enough neck on Reeder's version for my tastes. Maybe Paco will weigh in at some point with facts straight from the source. Thanks again all. P.S. I would have included a link straight to the referenced article, but that is beyond my meager abillities!...sorry.

[william iorg]

Slimster

Its been awhile since we discussed the .30-30 AI. Since the .308 Marlin hit the street I have spent most of my time looking at it.

I thought I had saved an old post from Paco about his .30-30 Improved cartridge and a looked around and sure enough there was a thread on the old Leverguns Forum about the cartridge. The general description is in this post from Paco.
Paco and Terry Murbach have both been around the block a few times loading for the Improved .30-30’s


Reply author: Paco

Replied on: 07/09/2004 00:44:29 Message:

©THANKS JEFF FOR YOUR ANSWER AND ALSO WILLIAM'S RIGHT ON TOO ... THE ACK/IMP 30-30 STARTS THE IMPROVED SHOULDER RIGHT AT THE ORGINAL NECK LENGTH .. HE DID THAT SO FOLKS COULD FIRE FORM COMMERCIAL AMMO AND NOT GET CASE SEPERATION ... MY DESIGN WHICH REEDER DOES USE PUTS THE SHOULDER STARTING TO GIVE THE NECK ABOUT A .308/310 LENGTH ... SO THERE IS MORE POWDER ROOM ... THAT'S WHY MY VELOCITIES ARE HIGHER THAN MOST ... I FIRE COMMERCIAL AMMO BY PULLING THE BULLET OUT OF THE CASE FAR ENOUGH TO ENGAGE THE RIFLING SO THERE IS NO STRECHING AT THE BASE ... I FIRE FORM HANDLOADS BY ALSO CRIMPING THE CAST BULLETS USED TO ENGAGE THE RIFLING ALSO WITH 2400 POWDER NOT BALL POWDER ... I HAVE HAD LOUSEY LUCK FIRE FORMING WITH BALL PISTOL POWDERS .. LOTS OF SQUIB IGNITIONS .... MY LOADS MENTIONED IN THE ABOVE ARTICLE JEFF SPEAKS OF ARE FOR MY DESIGN ... THE BEST POWDER FOR ALL AROUND USE I HAVE FOUND IN THE 30-30 IMP CASE IS ReL#7 ... HOPE THIS HELPS

PACO