Questions about 5744 30-30 loads

[jdad]

I've been using 30g of 748 under a 170gr JFP, in my 1893. Unfortunately, all the primers are bulging up a little. 32gr is the max load, so I don't think it's that hot. Head space is fine. My current loads produce cloverleafs, but I don't want to abuse this old beauty. It has to be a pressure issue, so I think I'm going to try 5744 with some Laser Cast 170's. I know the CUP pressure with 5744 is significantly lower.

Here's my questions because the load data I've found is all over the place....

1. I have Federal, Winchester, and Federal Gold Match Large Rifle Primers. What seems to give the most uniform burn with 5744?

2. I like to keep my loads in the 1800 - 1900fps range. Any starting loads?

3. Are there any quirks that this powder exhibits? W748 is extremely temperature sensitive and I get 100fps difference in the Summer vs the Winter.

Thanks

[Dirty Dan]

I quit using 748 for the reasons you list. IIRC I was way under max when I started noticing problems.

Can't help you with 5744.

[w30wcf]

jdad,
I would agree that what you are seeing is not a pressure issue. I have used many #'s of 748 under 170 + gr. bullets at higher charge weights with no problems and very good accuracy.

To date, I have used 5744 in the .30-30 but only for mid range loads. 18 grs. gives 1,700 f.p.s. with a 190 gr. cast bullet and good accuracy. Accurate recommended WLR primers, so thats what I have used.

A distant friend (Sixgun), as I recall, uses 5744 in the .30-30 under 170 gr. cast bullets with Accurate data and, as I recall, told me that he got good results.

Perhaps he will see this post and respond.

w30wcf

[jdad]

I quit using 748 for the reasons you list. IIRC I was way under max when I started noticing problems.

Can't help you with 5744.

Funny thing is though, I use the same W748 load without any problems in my Model 36 and 336.

[O.S.O.K.]

I agree that the primers are most likely not telling you there's too much pressure.

If you want to check this out, get some factory loads and fire them through your rifle. Then shoot some of your W748 30 grain loads. Be sure to use the same brand of brass and if possible, virgin brass for the handloads. Compare the size of the case head - just above the rims for each. They should be the same. If the handloads are running bigger, then you're getting more pressure in them.

I bet you see that they're acutally a wee bit smaller in diameter than the factory loads.

ETA - another thing to try: neck size your brass for this rifle/load and see what that does. It should cause a tight fit - check them prior to loading right after you size them to be sure, but this should cause the primers to seat firmly against the bolt face and may eliminate the issue.

[Hobie]

Go to 29 gr. of IMR 3031 with those jacketed bullets. IMO you'll be better served.

[BigSky56]

jdad, 22 grains of 5744 will give you 2000 fps and 32800 psi with a 173 gr gc lead bullet in a 20 " bbl. It also lists a 190 gr lead gc @ 22 gr for 1950 fps and 35300 psi. The last load is for 170 jacketed nolser of 23.5 gr and 1998 fps. I really like that powder as it good in both my rifles and revolvers. All the above loads were listed in AA manuals. danny

[jdad]

O.S.O.K.,
I used virgin brass when I started loading for this rifle. I just checked a random 6 out of the 50 fired cases and they all measured .414", at the case head. I'll try neck sizing only instead of full length and see what happens.

Thank you!

[JerryB]

I sure do like 5744 powder. I have gotten good results with my old 92 32-20 and the 45-70.

[O.S.O.K.]

jdad - you're welcome.

And I just went and measured some case heads from some factory ammo empties that I had in my shop - they all measured .415" - Winchester 150 grain loads. FWIIW.

And IIRC, these were fired in my old Marlin 336 Texan (1953).

ETA: Oh - and some of the primers had lifted slightly and others were still seated fully - not much difference - they looked just like your picture above.

I think you are fine with that load.

The only other thing I can suggest is to chronograph the load to check velocity. Velocity = pressure. Normal or slightly lower velocity will be another confirmation that all is well. Higher than normal would indicate higher pressure.

[Lefty Dude]

An accurate load that many Cowboy shooter use for long range side matches, 200 yards in the 30-30 is 16 grains of 5744 under a laser-cast 170 gr. gas check lead bullet. I used this load till I switched to a 170 gr. bare foot bullet, no GC. With this bullet and 11 grains of 5744 it is a tack driver on steel targets out to 200 yards. This load averages 1171fps. This load has won the Michigan State Championship four years in a row. A shooting pardner and I developed the load just for steel targets. This would also be a good load for small game. In SASS long range events, you shoot 10 shots on the clock at steel targets from 100 - 200 yards. 100 yards is off-hand standing, 200 yards cross-sticks may be used.

The other powder I use is Alliant Reloader Seven. This I use for Sillhoutte steel targets and lead loads out to 300 yards. A 170 gr. GC bullet is used. And 20 grains of RL-7.

An other good powder is IMR SR 4759.