Which one came from the original Ideal Keith...

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: AmBraCol, Hobie

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
reo
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:59 pm

Which one came from the original Ideal Keith...

Post by reo »

I just got my RCBS Keith 255 today. I lubed with a Lyman luber/sizer at .454, then with a Lee .452. The original Ideal-Lyman single cavity was cast about 6 years ago. It was lubed and sized today along with the RCBS I cast today. Which one is which?
Image
Not one for drama if I can help it, the Ideal Keith is on the left. Its meplat, as best as I could get, is .340. Its overall length is .675. The RCBS meplat is .325 and overall length is .728. I cast the original Keith from WW and the RCBS from stick on wheel weights and auto body stick lead/tin. I was hoping for 1-10 not sure if I achieved it. The Ideal was 253.5 grains and the RCBS was 263 grains.

While casting, I was getting a gold/copper color coating on top then it turned to a bluish/purple color. It was clumping up which I skimmed off and put in an ingot mold. It amounted to three ingots full, so far in a 20 pound pot. Anyone know what was happening?
Mokwaw
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 536
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:08 pm
Location: Huntington, Indiana

Re: Which one came from the original Ideal Keith...

Post by Mokwaw »

As you say it's the one on the left. It has the wide driving bands that Elmer liked. Besides it has lost it's shine from being exposed to air, and the sharp edges on the bands have several dents of a bullet that has been around for a while. The one on the right is nice and shiny as a new cast bullet......................... :)
UNITE
User avatar
Hobie
Moderator
Posts: 13902
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:54 pm
Location: Staunton, VA, USA
Contact:

Re: Which one came from the original Ideal Keith...

Post by Hobie »

I'd say you're skimming some zinc from that melt. You guys think I'm wrong?

As to the colored slag, I see that in melts of a certain temperature. You don't mention your melt temp.
Sincerely,

Hobie

"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Pete44ru
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11242
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:26 am

Re: Which one came from the original Ideal Keith...

Post by Pete44ru »

AFAIK, the Keith bullet was designed with a squared bottom to the groove(s).

The bullet on the right has rounded bottom(s).

.
reo
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:59 pm

Re: Which one came from the original Ideal Keith...

Post by reo »

Hobie,

I am running the pot as hot as it will go. I am not sure of the temperature. I'm all ears on suggestions though...

I do not have the name on the old bar solder so I cannot check composition. I am assuming 60-40.
Comal Forge
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:07 pm

Re: Which one came from the original Ideal Keith...

Post by Comal Forge »

The colors and the scum means the melt is too hot and oxidizing. All that stuff you are skimming is tin and antimony. Run the pot just hot enough to keep the melt at a sufficient temp to prevent wrinkled bullets. Anything more is a waste of energy and overly oxidizes the metal. Flux often...

Keith had three major points to his pistol bullets: wide meplat, wide driving bands and wide/deep lube groove. The first one was to generate larger wound channels, the second intended to better grip the rifling and the large lube groove was to allow enough lube to stay on the bullet until it gets out of the barrel. You will often see leading in longer barreled guns near the muzzle because there wasn't enough lube to coat the bullet sufficiently.
reo
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:59 pm

Re: Which one came from the original Ideal Keith...

Post by reo »

Nice to have a definitive answer, thank you.
User avatar
Hobie
Moderator
Posts: 13902
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:54 pm
Location: Staunton, VA, USA
Contact:

Re: Which one came from the original Ideal Keith...

Post by Hobie »

reo wrote:Hobie,

I am running the pot as hot as it will go. I am not sure of the temperature. I'm all ears on suggestions though...

I do not have the name on the old bar solder so I cannot check composition. I am assuming 60-40.
Ah, you're skimming all your tin and antimony. I'm wrong on the zinc. If your melt is cooler (IIRC around 700*) the zinc will float to the top. I was amazed at all the dross you were getting but you've explained it.

PS and I see Comal Forge got to you already... :oops: :roll: :lol:
Sincerely,

Hobie

"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
reo
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:59 pm

Re: Which one came from the original Ideal Keith...

Post by reo »

Hobie, Comal Forge

So I have this right, :?: if I keep the alloy cooler I will get all of the zinc to the top, skim it off then I can run the pot and get the bullets I want :?: :?
Post Reply