Uses for IMR 4759?

[homefront]

In digging through my powders I found a can of IMR 4759. I can't find any recipes for what I shoot (.38/.357, .41 mag, .44 mag, .30-30 and .38-55). When I bought it, I was probably looking for 4756 and grabbed this by mistake. I've heard that 4759 was supposed to be a black powder substitute, but can't find any loading data.
Anyone use this?

[Charles]

IMR 4759 was developed for military use in 30-06 'Frangible" ammunition. It is a fast burning powder with lots of bulk. It could be used in lower pressure loads without giving ignition problems like other faster powders could.

4759 has been the "go to" powder for cast bullet rifle loads for several generations and does excellent work at that task. It can also be used with jacketed bullets for reduced velocity loads.

It also does well in the larger sixguns rounds. It will not produce top velocity, but will deliver excellent accuracy. Paco has work with this powder in sixgun rounds and there is some data around somewhere.

Whoever told you 4759 was a black powder substitute was in grievous and serious error. It can be used in many of the older rounds with cast bullets, but it is not a substitute.

[homefront]

Thank you, this is a great start.

Can anyone point me to some load data?

[Rusty]

Do a Google search on "IMR 4759" and click away. there are several pages of references.

[w30wcf]

homefront,
4759 is very similar in burning rate to 4227. In the cartridges you mentioned, I have used 4759 in the .357 and .30-30.
11-12 grs in the .357 with a 158 gr. bullet is a capacity load and does 1,400 f.p.s. in my marlin with excellent accuracy.
14 grs. in the .30-30 under a 170-180 gr; cast bullet is a fine mid range load (1,500 f.p.s.)

w30wcf

[L8agin]

It's a great powder in 30-30 with cast bullets. Lots a data in the Lyman cast bullet handbook. Used for reduced loads in many rifle calibers.
L8

[Old Savage]

Very accurate in one of my 30-06s with 216 gr cast bullets, 311284. 21 grs. yeilds about 1600 fps. I got the load out of the NRA cast bullet manual. There is an interesting story in there about a guy's grandad and his old 03 and bets on covering his groups with a quarter at 100 yds. In my rifle 3 x.65", 5x .82" and 10 in 1 1/4" at 100 yds. And that was in the first outing 20 rounds total.

[AJMD429]

It is also used in Savage's ML-10 muzzleloader - 43 grains propels a 300 grain bullet at 2225 fps. (Some 'duplex' loads listed elsewhere are claiming 2500fps+ with the 300 grainers! )

http://www.sav10ml.com/pages/load_data/table1.htm

Thump!

[homefront]

Looks like I need a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook.

Thanks for the replies.

[Borregos]

I only use 4759 in my 7mm BR remington XP 100
20 grains of it behind a 150 grain Hornady is deadly accurate!!

[Cimarron Red]

4759 is my powder of choice in the .45-70 under a 325 grain and 405 grain bullet. My cowboy lever action silhouette load is 25 grains with the 325 for velocities just a bit higher than BP. Great powder!

[KirkD]

I found that SR4759 was a very good powder for cast bullets in my 38-55. 19 grains under a 255 grain bullet gave me 1,581 fps, which I consider to be a bit on the steamy side. I took a look in my file to see if I had any targets with that load and found one 3-shot group at 100 yards that was 2 & 3/16" and one 5-shot group at 200 yards that was 2 & 1/2" wide x 6 & 1/4" tall (my front sight is so thin, it's hard to see the top edge of it). If you use this for your 38-55, I might recommend starting at 18 grains.

[homefront]

Kirk, thanks. That is very useful to me.

Are you using a gas check on that bullet?

[6pt-sika]

SR4759 used to be my number one cast bullet powder in the 30-30 , 38-55 and 45-70 !

And there's nothing wrong with it now ! I just like XMP5744 a little better !

[KirkD]

Kirk, thanks. That is very useful to me.

Are you using a gas check on that bullet?

No. I try to stay away from the added expense of gas checks except on my 25-20 and 30-30 where I can't live without them.

[Bluehawk]

There have been a few articles written stating that 4759 has a Peak pressure ratio ( or burning rate ) very SIMILAR to Black Powder and is touted a a very good powder for those who need to BUMP up bullets , where this is usually done with Black Powder . This might be the confusion as a BP subsitute IT IS NOT
Works very well with cast bullets due to this buring rate and how fast peak pressures rise

[homefront]

It's sounding like this is the perfect cast powder to try in my .38-55 with commercial hard-cast bullets.
I have a .381 bore, and Roger's Better Bullets has a 255 gr. sized at .379. These are not at all accurate in my gun unless I use a faster powder like 4227. I also have an untried Rapine mold that casts at .380.
I'll try the 4759 as well as 2400 and Unique and see what happens.

[homefront]

It's sounding like this is the perfect cast powder to try in my .38-55 with commercial hard-cast bullets.
I have a .381 bore, and Roger's Better Bullets has a 255 gr. sized at .379. These are not at all accurate in my gun unless I use a faster powder like 4227. I also have an untried Rapine mold that casts at .380.
I'll try the 4759 as well as 2400 and Unique and see what happens.

[AJMD429]

There have been a few articles written stating that 4759 has a Peak pressure ratio ( or burning rate ) very SIMILAR to Black Powder and is touted a a very good powder for those who need to BUMP up bullets , where this is usually done with Black Powder . This might be the confusion as a BP subsitute IT IS NOT
Works very well with cast bullets due to this buring rate and how fast peak pressures rise

Yep - the Savage ML10 instructions are full of warnings that although you can us it in THEIR gun, such loads are not intended for any other guns. (Of course some portion of their eagerness could be to make their guns sound even more unique vs. other competitors...)

[scr83jp]

In digging through my powders I found a can of IMR 4759. I can't find any recipes for what I shoot (.38/.357, .41 mag, .44 mag, .30-30 and .38-55). When I bought it, I was probably looking for 4756 and grabbed this by mistake. I've heard that 4759 was supposed to be a black powder substitute, but can't find any loading data.
Anyone use this?

I started using Smokeless Rifle 4759 in the early 1970's for cast bullets in my Remington Rolling Block 45-70 Schuetzen Rifle. I was told by Jess Smiley owner of Javelina Alox Bullet lube & a retired WW2 army colonel that it was a substitute for black powder.I used 20gr behind a cast 405gr lead bullet for the schuetzen matches.There is load data on line & in manuals for SR 4759.

[ole pizen slinger]

I think where the confusion with 4759 and Black Powder comes from is its use in duplexing BP loads. Some have used small amounts of 4759 directly over the primer with the rest of the charge being Black Powder in order to up the pressure of the load and thus get around the fouling issue with BP in large cartridges. There is ample information on the various BP forums about duplexing should you be interested.
ole pizen slinger

[Bucks Owin]

Great powder in .44 mag too. This life sized varmit was tagged at 150 yds with 4759 behind RCBS 225GC...Hogleg is old 10" Ruger .44 Flattop.

[Bucks Owin]

Sadly, SR4759 is being discontinued...

[Malamute]

We may be having issues with semantics. "Substitute" isn't exactly the same as being able to "duplicate" black powder loads, which I believe is an accurate statement. 4759 has long been explained as a good powder to duplicate black powder loads with smokeless, but it isn't a substitute, like Pyrodex and other similar powders.

I've used 4759 to load reduced jacketed loads in a couple rifle calibers. The 200 gr Hornady 33 Win flat point @ about 1500 fps in the 338 Winchester Mag shoots tiny groups at moderate range, and is very pleasant to shoot. I loaded them as grouse and small game loads. Wish I had more of the 33 bullets now, I'd shoot the gun more often.

Not only is the Lyman cast bullet manual good, their regular manual has both jacketed and cast data, just not as many bullets and loads for cast as the manual dedicated to cast. I have both and like them both.

[Centennial]

Hodgdon discontinued importing it , despite all our protests, they went with "their stockholders".
It's made in Canada by Rockwell (?)

[AJMD429]

Thank you, this is a great start. Can anyone point me to some load data?

Ammoguide uses for SR-4759.jpg

As you can see, AmmoGuide.com has a fair amount of data for that powder. Of course there is the factory website, as well. LoadData.com is also a good source. You have to pay membership fees for either of those websites, but a year's worth is still less than half to a third of what you'd otherwise pay for a paper reloading manual. (The paper manuals ARE useful for tips and techniques, but not needed for actual load data.)

[Bucks Owin]

Hodgdon discontinued importing it , despite all our protests, they went with "their stockholders".
It's made in Canada by Rockwell (?)

Apparently the machinery is worn and whatever powers that be in charge don't wanna spring for an overhaul....

Besides 4759, PB and a couple other powders are also going bye bye...dammit