A .32 "Bunny Gun"

[ke4sky]

I fooled around with MCA chamber inserts enabling use of .32 ACP ammo as sub-caliber small game rounds in my .30-30. At 25 yards it was no more accurate than the pistol, and it was tedious to extract, reload the insert adapter and manually load it into the chamber each time. A few reduced loads with a 115-gr. lead .32-20 bullet and 5 grs. of Bullseye pistol powder loaded into a .30-30 case made more sense if I was going to be carrying the .30-30 anyway.

But I often carry a .32 Automatic or revolver in my pants pockets, so I got the idea to build a light, “walking around rifle” which would be both handy and quiet. My reasoning was that for very light, quiet “.30 cal. CB cap” loads, approximating a .32 rimfire, that the tiny .32 ACP case could have advantages, whereas the larger .32 S&W Long case has more powder capacity if I wanted something having a bit more energy and range, approximating a .32-20.

I had a seldom used H&R .410 single-shot on the tiny pre-war action which weighed about 4 pounds. I contacted John Taylor, at Taylor Machine in Toledo, WA and soon had a pair of barrels chambered for .32 ACP and .32 S&W Long equipped with XS ghost ring peep sights to fit my little H&R shotgun. And best of all I still had the .410 barrel too! I opted for an 18” barrel for the .32 ACP to have the “maximum handy” configuration, and a 26” one for the .32 S&W Long to ensure “maximum quiiiieett so as not to scare the bunny wabbits!”

Photo of the Bunny Gun with both barrels appears in this post:
http://forums.handloads.com/forum_posts ... 19232&PN=1

I fired side-by-side tests indoors comparing the .32 S&W Long and .32 ACP barrels with iron sights at 25 yards, which I consider realistic “bunny wabbit” distance. Getting inch groups at 25 yards with iron sights proved challenging for 58-year-old eyes, but I managed to do so with enough different loads to prove the concept practical.

Factory Winchester .32 S&W Long 98-grain LRN, and .32 ACP Fiocchi and RWS 73-gr. hardball averaged just under inch groups at 25 yards. The 98-gr. LRN factory loads in the .32 S&W Long with 26 inch barrel gave 884 f.p.s. and were no louder than standard velocity .22 LR fired from a sporting length rifle.

In .32 ACP Fiocchi 73-grain hardball clocked 943 f.p.s., and RWS hardball was 1214 f.p.s. from the 18 inch barrel. Fiocchi 60-grain JHPs which gave 1199 f.p.s. from my 3.5 inch Beretta pistol screamed out 1463 f.p.s. in the 18” H&R walking rifle. Its sharper report was more like firing a .22 WMR.

My original goal was not high velocity, but quiet small game loads approximating the ballistics of a .32 Long rim fire (from .32 ACP brass) or standard velocity lead .32-20 loads (from .32 S&W Long brass). These objectives were met handily. If you don't cast your own bullets and want to buy some, the Meister 94-gr. LFN bullet of .312 diameter has a profile almost identical to the original flat-nosed factory bullet used in the .32 Colt New Police. Its ogive length enables a .975” overall cartridge length when taper-crimped into the .32 ACP and it doesn’t bulge cases.

Velocities of the .32 ACP cast bullet loads fired from my Beretta pistol approximate the velocities expected firing a .32 S&W Long 4” revolver using the same bullet with 2.5 grains of Bullseye. The samo ammo when fired from the 18” rifle for .32 ACP, loaded with the minimum 1.7 grain charge of Bullseye which still reliably functions my WWII-era European autopistols approaches the 900 f.p.s. This equals the velocity expected of standard velocity .32-20 Winchester factory lead bullet loads fired from a four-inch barreled revolver with typical 0.008" cylinder gap. These subsonic rifle loads gave a measured peak noise level of 90dB measured at 1 meter from the muzzle of the 18-inch barrel, this compares to firing high velocity .22 LR from a typical sporting rifle.

Attempting to drive a non-expanding cast bullet intended for small game supersonic in a small game rifle is a waste of powder. I don’t view this as a 100-yard rig. This is a “walking around gun,” so an iron-sight, 50 yard zero coupled with reliable 4 moa grouping and enough greater striking energy than a .22 LR to make reliable 1-shot kills on raccoon, groundhog, wild turkey (where legal) or the occasional marauding feral dog or coyote, is more than practical.

The .32 S&W Long barrel is 26” long and noticeably quieter, about a 5dB reduction at comparable subsonic velocities compared to the .32 ACP at 18.” While the longer 26" barrel of the .32 Long rifle balances better and is steadier for offhand shooting, its shorter .32 ACP counterpart carries like a dream for long walks along fence rows and scattered farm fields in search of furry or feathered edibles. The 18 inch .32 ACP barrel stows easily in a backpack when taken down, and carries effortlessly through mountainous, brushy woodlands of the type I often hunt. It is also faster handling in snap-shots and seems just as accurate at practical small game ranges as its longer .32 S&W Long cousin, despite its shorter sight radius.

I bought a dozen cakes of Ivory soap at Walmart and shot at these to compare the effect of bullet shape on impact. Lead round nose .32 S&W Long and .32 ACP hardball made clean, round 3/8 inch exits little different than those of .22 LR solids. Meister 94-grain LFNs fired from both calibers made larger, dime-sized exits with good small game potential. Fiocchi’s 60-gr. JHP made quarter-sized exits, too destructive for camp meat. Cast bullets are still best for small game and plinking. My little "Bunny Gun" shoots better than I can hold with iron sights, is no louder than a .22 rimfire and is more effective on edible game and varmints. Who could ask for anything more?

[2ndovc]

That sounds pretty cool!
I love stuff that's just a little different. I had a .32 RF Rolling Block for several years and finally traded it off when I couldn't find any decent/ affordable ammo for it.


jb

[Hobie]

Your use of this gun is exactly how I use my .36 cal RB shooting muzzleloader (a TC Seneca). Neat concept and execution but you forgot something....

[ke4sky]

Your use of this gun is exactly how I use my .36 cal RB shooting muzzleloader (a TC Seneca). Neat concept and execution but you forgot something....

OK, I'll bite... What did I forget? I'm sure all inquiring minds will want to know!

What doesn't meet the eye in the photo is that the 26" .32 S&W Long barrel is drilled and tapped for Unertl scope blocks. But I use my straight-tube, small game scope only for ammo testing. Hanging glass on a 4-1/2 lb. gun defeats its purpose as a handy walking gun. I don't have sling swivels because a sling just gets snagged in the brush.

So?

[KCSO]

Marlin made this gun for years. I have M92 Marlin 32 rim and 32 S and W long interchangable with a reversible firing pin. I just got a M 94 in 32 H and R for my wife and she shoots S and W short load in it for plinking. The gun is almost silent. I am somewhat surprised by your poor luck with inserts as I have had several that would hold under 1" at 25 yards. The break top looks like a nice gun for woods walking though.

[ke4sky]

The MCA chamber adapter I have is a smoothbore .30-30 steel dummy case chambered for .32 ACP. The old Winchester and Marbles ones were rifled and shoot much better. Their shotgun insert barrels ARE rifled and shoot fine.

[rock-steady]

Picture not attached? I see no picture. I want to see a picture of the Bunny Gun!

[Hobie]

Your use of this gun is exactly how I use my .36 cal RB shooting muzzleloader (a TC Seneca). Neat concept and execution but you forgot something....

OK, I'll bite... What did I forget? I'm sure all inquiring minds will want to know!

What doesn't meet the eye in the photo is that the 26" .32 S&W Long barrel is drilled and tapped for Unertl scope blocks. But I use my straight-tube, small game scope only for ammo testing. Hanging glass on a 4-1/2 lb. gun defeats its purpose as a handy walking gun. I don't have sling swivels because a sling just gets snagged in the brush.

So?

I don't see a photo.

[AJMD429]

There is a dearth of small, low-power guns on the market these days. The Marlin .357 carbine is close, but a notch 'down' from that would be great for wabbits, tin cans, and a learner gun for kids.

[JReed]

I take it that he made up a stubbed barrel for it? How much did this project put you back if you dont mind me asking. I have an H&R wounder if he would do up a .32-20 bbl.

[AkRay]

I don't see a photo either. This sounds like a neat idea and would work great for snowshoe hares, grouse and ptarmigan.

[6pt-sika]

Marlin made this gun for years. I have M92 Marlin 32 rim and 32 S and W long interchangable with a reversible firing pin.

Hate to differ with you !

But when the 32 caliber Marlin Model 1891's , 1892's and 92's left the factory . They were chambered to accept the 32 Short and Long rimfire ; and the 32 Short Colt an 32 Long Colt !

The 32 S&W Short or Long is not the same thing as the 32 Short or Long Colt !

I have a pair of these rifles

[TedH]

[mescalero1]

some of us are picture/computer challenged.

[Ysabel Kid]

Bingo. Pictures PLEASE!!!

[J35]

If I maybe so bold

you can find your eye candy here.

http://guns.connect.fi/gow/ed.html

good luck

[Ysabel Kid]

If I maybe so bold

you can find your eye candy here.

http://guns.connect.fi/gow/ed.html

good luck

Thanks!

[KCSO]

Mine chambers 32 Smith and Wesson. I still get to shoot it time to time. Maybe it the distant past it was re chambered.

[ke4sky]

I take it that he made up a stubbed barrel for it? How much did this project put you back if you dont mind me asking. I have an H&R wonder if he would do up a .32-20 bbl.

John neither made an insert tube to fit into the .410 nor cut off and resleeved an existing barrel. He fabricated two complete barrel assemblies with installed underlug and ejector mechanisms, just like the factory barrels. He provided a .311 groove 16" twist barrel for the .32 S&W Long barrel. I provided a pulled off M1 Garand barrel which he cut off at the gas port and chamber turned down to make the shorter .32 ACP barrel. I provided my own chambering reamers, which were returned after the job. Cost of fabricating two barrels, installing sights, bluing and return shipping was in the $500 range back in 2006. Much less than I paid at the time for a then-new 1894 Marlin .32 HRM lever gun.

[JReed]

Oh cool I heard a of a few people playing with that concept but had yet to hear of some one that went threw with it. That is way cool.

[ke4sky]

.32 H&R Mag. as listed in Brownell's catalog:
184-051-321 Fits .32 H&R Mag Barrel
THIS REAMER HAS BEEN SOLD

[Remington40x]

I tackled the problem a slightly different way. I found a Browning Lo-wall in .22 Hornet and sent it to Dan Pedersen, who set the barrel back one thread and then rebored the barrel to .32 H&R. I now have a wonderful rabbit/squirrel/short range woodchuck/turkey rifle that is very accurate and great looking to boot. The Browning Collectors' Association will probably have me whacked for the outrage I've committed, but in the interim, I'm having a ball.

[Hobie]

Your use of this gun is exactly how I use my .36 cal RB shooting muzzleloader (a TC Seneca). Neat concept and execution but you forgot something....

OK, I'll bite... What did I forget? I'm sure all inquiring minds will want to know!

What doesn't meet the eye in the photo is that the 26" .32 S&W Long barrel is drilled and tapped for Unertl scope blocks. But I use my straight-tube, small game scope only for ammo testing. Hanging glass on a 4-1/2 lb. gun defeats its purpose as a handy walking gun. I don't have sling swivels because a sling just gets snagged in the brush.

So?

It was the photo (sorry I didn't get back to you!). I must have missed the link in your post, so another mea culpa from me...

[texasrick]

Slightly different idea for a rabbit gun, but my solution to the same problem was the .25-20 The 86 grain bullets at 1100-1300 fps do little damage to edible game and are very quiet. Mine is an older Savage 23B bolt rifle, but the .25-20 can be found in lever guns too. Almost performs like a reloadable .22 LR......and will still take a stray hog if your shot is placed just right!!

[Old Ironsights]

There is a dearth of small, low-power guns on the market these days. The Marlin .357 carbine is close, but a notch 'down' from that would be great for wabbits, tin cans, and a learner gun for kids.

Of course, downloading .38s for use in a .357 works exceedingly well for that too...

[ke4sky]

Subsonic .38/.357 reloads for Cowboy Rifles

Practical shooters know that handgun ammo which averages two inches or less at fifty yards over a series of 5-shot groups is entirely satisfactory for field use, because that’s far better than most people can shoot. When seeking dual-use ammo to feed a cowboy rifle and a wheel gun, I want one ammo that is more accurate than I can shoot with 60-year-old eyes and iron sights.

People usually don't consider wadcutters to be viable in lever-action cowboy rifles, because their short overall cartridge length enables more than one round at a time to be released onto the lifter, thus jamming the gun. The solution is to use wadcutters as a "two-shooter" loading one round directly into the chamber and then inserting only one round at a time past the loading gate. Each time you fire a shot and work the lever, you can shove another round past the loading gate and enjoy your two-shooter small game gun. This is my usual practice when I want a low-noise, but effective smal game gun. Wadcutters fired from my 24-inch Cowboy limited are no louder than a .22 rimfire firing standard velocity ammo.

I tested four factory .38 Special loads as benchmarks, then an assortment of factory swaged and cast wad cutter, lead round nose, lead flat nose and semi wad cutter bullets at 50 yards to see where they shook out. My benchmarks included a known good lot of Norma 158-gr. Lead round nose and three batches of wad cutters, an oldie, but goodie, and two new boxes, one cheap, one expensive. The box of historical interest was “the last” of what the late LTC Ellis Lea described as “the best wad cutter Remington-Bridgeport ever made,” a souvenir from the 1960 Olympics. This ammo with Rem-UMC head stamp averaged 1.16” at 50 yards from a scoped BSA Cadet Martini.

The Norma 158-grain lead, round nosed ammo was a batch dated from my Ruger revolver QA testing days in the mid 1980s. It performed exactly as expected from experience, velocities averaging 720 f.p.s. from a 2” snubbie, 800 f.p.s. from a 6” revolver and just under 1000 f.p.s. from the Cadet Martini, shooting nice round groups which averaged 1.6” at 50 yards.

New (and expensive) Winchester wadcutter from Midway was disappointing. One group contained a keyhole which enlarged it to almost six inches, the best group was just under two inches and five targets averaged of over three inches. Cheaper Than Dirt’s imported Czech stuff shot reasonable well, averaging about two inches.

Of the factory swaged, hollow-based wad cutters only Remington’s averaged consistently less than 2” at fifty yards. The often recommended 2.8 grain charge of Bullseye averaged 1.8”, but increasing the charge slightly to 3 grains shrunk the average to an inch and a half. The Remington 158-gr. Lead SWC flat base of .358 diameter loaded to 1.45” overall with 3.5 grains of Bullseye shot as well as the best wad cutter reloads. Speer’s 158-gr. Lead Round nose with 3.5 grains of Bullseye was also a pleasant surprise, equaling my prized lot of Norma LRN.

Then knowing what factory loads and handloads with swaged bullets do, I tested traditional lead .38 Special loads with cast bullets so see how they measured up. Cast bullet loads included the Saeco #348 double-end, bevel-based wad cutter, the NEI #161A 190-gr. Flat nose; and bullets cast from another NEI #161A four-cavity, cherried shorter to remove the base band, producing a 150-grain flat-nosed cowboy slug.

The Saeco #348 double-ender, shot unsized, tumbled in Rooster Jacket and crimped in the crimp groove over 3.5 grains of Bullseye averaged 1.87.” Both light and heavy versions of the NEI #161A, loaded with the same lube and powder charge averaged an inch and a half at 50 yards, actually slightly better than the wad cutters. A couple shot holes with the 190-grain version showed slight yaw at 50 yards, so I increased the charge slightly to improve stability. A charge of 4.2 grains of Bullseye, crimping in the top lubricating groove at 1.55” overall length averaged 0.87” with the largest group 1.07” and the smallest 0.61! @~&*% Now THAT got my attention!

I decided it was now time to try .357 Magnum brass. Seating the 190-gr. NEI #161A in its normal crimp groove using .357 brass the cartridge OAL is 1.58”. A charge of 4 grains of Bullseye gave 1000 f.p.s. from the 24” rifle and averaged under an inch and a half. Increasing the charge to 4.3 grains enlarged the average slightly, but it was still less than two inches. Increasing the charge to 4.5 grains increased velocity to 1080 fps, but enlarged groups. It was time for harder alloy.

I bought 190gr. LFN bullets from Hunter’s Supply which are a dead ringer to the #161A, but cast from a harder 92Pb-6Sb-2Sn alloy. I also loaded Winchester 158-grain jacketed hollow points in new virgin Winchester cases, with WSP primers and 14.5 grains of #2400 because it was time for a .357 benchmark.

The Hunter’s Supply hard cast .358” diameter 190 LFNs with 4.3 grains of Bullseye averaged under an inch from the scoped BSA-Martini at 50 yards. Increasing the charge to 4.5 grains the harder alloy averaged 1.26”, almost exactly half what cast wheel weight metal bullets did when overdriven. Hand loaded Winchester JHPs also averaged exactly an inch at fifty yards.

It was time to go to 100 yards. I also took the best load and tested it again in my Marlin 1894 Cowboy Limited with 2.5X Weaver scope. The Norma .38 Special 158-gr. LRN factory loads averaged 3” at 100 yards. Hand loads with swaged lead round nose and semi-wad cutter ammo in .38 Special cases didn’t shoot as well, but did stay under 4 minutes of angle, having useful field utility.

The Hunter’s Supply cast 190 LFN of 92-6-2 alloy and sized .358 from Midway, with 4.3 grains of Bullseye in .357 cases averaged 2.18” in the BSA and 2.36” in the Marlin. When casting the NEI #191A from wheel weights I got comparable results as long as I kept velocities with the softer wheel weight alloy subsonic. I settled on 3.5 grains of Bullseye in .38 cases and from 4.0 grains in .357 cases based upon accuracy results. Supersonic loads do not group as well at 100 yards as the slower loads. This is because the faster loads are subjected to transonic buffeting as projectile velocity decays below the speed of sound.

So my advice is not to magnum-ize it, but keep it slow, accurate and quiet. A good working velocity range is from 950 to 1050 f.p.s. so there is no “crack” to disturb the neighbors. A big flat-nosed bullet is effective on groundhogs, wild turkey and larger edible critters raiding your garden. Bon appettit!

[Old Ironsights]

Yep. I have a couple of "gallery loads" like that. 2gr of Titegroup will push a 156 out at around 600fps. Quiet enough (out of my 20" rossi) to shoot in the house at my carpet backstop. Goes through about 8 layers of berber.

[AmBraCol]

I don't see a photo either. This sounds like a neat idea and would work great for snowshoe hares, grouse and ptarmigan.

Ed posted a link in his original post to a post he made o the handloads.com forum.

http://forums.handloads.com/forum_posts ... 19232&PN=1


I don't know if it will show here or not, but here's the photo.

[Malamute]

I've had pretty good accuracy from the 32 auto chamber adapters in a couple Winchester 94's. When ejected from the gun, the insert cartwheels, spitting out the 32 auto shell, and I catch the insert.

The insert being smooth bored doesnt seem to matter, as the rifle barrel is rifled, and the reduced size round fits the bore. In a shotgun, it would make a difference, as the reduced size load is smaller than the shotgun bore anyway.

I've been loading 3 grs Unique under a .310 or .315" round ball. Makes about as much noise as a standard velocity 22 lr (not high velocity). Makes a great grouse, bunny or squirrel load,..kills snakes very dead also. I've loaded some 115 gr fp lead bullets over 6 1/2 grs Unique, gives a flatter trajectory, and is about like a factory 32-20 load. I generally leave the magazine loaded with regular full power rounds, and single load the small game rounds.

[adirondakjack]

We've got a Rossi "Matched pair" .410/.22 rf here that just begs to be given the .32 S&W treatment. Absolutely the neatest little bunny gun

[BAGTIC]

I have an H&R rebored to .32 H&R Magnum.

Would still like one chambered for the smaller .32 S&W with a .308 bore and ball seat for shooting round balls.

[RSY]

My .32 "bunny gun" is a 1916 Mauser Gew.98.

Scott

[O.S.O.K.]

Slightly different idea for a rabbit gun, but my solution to the same problem was the .25-20 The 86 grain bullets at 1100-1300 fps do little damage to edible game and are very quiet. Mine is an older Savage 23B bolt rifle, but the .25-20 can be found in lever guns too. Almost performs like a reloadable .22 LR......and will still take a stray hog if your shot is placed just right!!

Does it look like this?




My current loads are more like 1800 fps with jacketed flat nosed Rem bullets - 87 grains IIRC - for larger varmints. But with cast bullets at the velocities you list, it'd be a great edible game rifle too.

I like the 32 rifles that the thread starter had done up - very cool... I've thought of doing this type of thing before too - but with different calibers. Taylor Machine huh - he did a barrel for me once - good guy.