ATTN....Public Range Users....Firearm Theft Technique

[JJ_Miller]

Its always something new.........

Twice within the last week there has been firearms stolen on public ranges here ( WV ). The entire State is criss crossed by ATV trails. The State has built at least one public range in every county using hunting license monies, and these ATV trails always seem to lead to the range areas.

It appears that the turds ride their ATV's to within sight of the range, wait until a lone shooter is there and as the shooter goes forward to the 100 yrd target board to repair/replace their targets the turds fire up their ATV's run to the fireing line grab whatever rifles they can carry and escape on the ATV trails. The shooters see all this from 100 yrds away but cannot out run the ATV's.

By the time the shooter gets back to the fireing line the turd is long gone along with the rifles.

I don't know what the answer is, I don't carry my rifle or scoped handguns forward with me every time I replace targets, but I rarely use public ranges alone. Just something to keep in mind...........................JJ

[Ysabel Kid]

I don't know what the answer is.....JJ

(1) Carry one loaded, scoped high-power rifle with you down to the targets. ATV's show up, grab your stuff, down they go. The ATV's may be able to outrun you; they can't outrun your bullet!

(2) Some C4 rigged to your guns!

Okay, # 2 isn't practical because it would damage your guns. Go with # 1.

[Gary]

My local public range has range officers on ATVs. The always cruise the handgun range, rifle range, trap shoot range, etc., to make sure everyone is okay. Don't you have range masters at your public range? Perhaps you could ask for the name of the attorney of the owners of the range in order to light a fire.

[gamekeeper]

I've heard of this sort of thing happening over here to people shooting Wood Pigeons over decoys. The turds wait till the guy leaves his shotgun in the hide to retrieve shot pigeons or set them up as extra decoys and then sneak off with his shotgun!
I never leave a firearm out of my reach when I'm shooting alone.

[Pete44ru]

I always take one of my rifles downrange with me, unloaded, but with a round ready to chamber & use - while keeping a weather eye out on the rest of my gear.
Call me paranoid, but they're out there.

[rjohns94]

I always have my carry pistol with me but on the public ranges, volunteers act as range officers to watch over things while people are down range. If I am alone, I have no reason to go down range because I have glass that shows the bullet strikes from the bench. When I go down range at the end of the shooting day, my weapons go in my truck before I go down range. I often have several on the bench and would not think of leaving them there if I was alone.

[Old Ironsights]

Yet another reason to shoot steel rather than paper...

If there is no one else on the range, carry it.

Other than that/extra guns = Cable Lock. Lock it to the bench. PITA but it gives you time to aim...

[Modoc ED]

Whenever shooting at a range or out in the boonies (especially when alone), I always carry a loaded gun with me to my target set-up. Never know what/who is lurking around in the background.

[Sixgun]

It happened at a private gunclub I used to belong to 25 years ago. Some Mexicans from the mushroom houses would sit in the weeds and wait until the proper time. Never did hear what happened

At our gunclub, the ranges go from 100-500 meters so if your checking your targets or repainting your steel at over a quarter mile away, lots of things can happen. I almost always bring 4 rifles and a couple of revolvers and I'm not going lug all that stuff, along with chronographs, etc., so maybe my time is coming up. As we can drive our vehicles down, not much time is lost and I always have something in my back pocket, but what good is that gonna do? You just can't shoot people or even shoot at 'em for stealing. (as much as I would like to )

Our club is private, with a locked gate and is somewhat remote but "where there's a will, there's a way" for thieves.-------------------Sixgun

[Hobie]

We've had similar things happen here on the public range on National Forest land so I now carry my .45 Auto and the first thing I do is crank off a mag at the 150 yard range showing them I can hit them from anywhere on the range. Wear it all the time. THEN I go about shooting. There have been folks watching and like Mike I leave the bench as seldom as possible, too. Lots of times people I know are down there and I always go up and call them by name and sometimes I sit back and wait for them as they go up and down range. Never had an incident while I was there but I'm certainly aware of the possiblity as it has happened at this range. Mostly they are just driving in and whipping right out one way or the other.

[lever-4-life]

I heard of some guys that were robbing shooters at gun point while they changed there targets on blm land out side reno. They would watch from a over look and rush in suprising their victims aperently some high profile stuff got riped off and it was easily spotted at a gun show. I realy dont think I would shoot at the phantom atv'ers that were taking my range guns but it would shure ruin my day

[505stevec]

Y'all are just paranoid Haven't you heard that this is the new kinder and enlightened society where everyone is just nice as can be??? Heck yes!!! take a gun down range with you always!!! you never know when the village idiot is lurking around.

[Mike D.]

It is always best to carry your shooting gun downrange if you are worried about theft. I never do, but our club doesn't have access by foreign vehicles, and I consider the membership to be trustworthy. Sometimes, I am shooting some highly valued Winchesters which always draw attention from fellow shooters.

If you are a victim of a grab and go thief, don't even consider firing at them. If you do hit one of them, it's your a** that will be on the line. Using deadly force on a fleeing 484
suspect is a definite no-no, however, disabling their vehicle is another story.

[don Tomás]

Range security, very important. Haven't shot at a public range in ages and most of my shooting is done on BLM land. Someone is armed at all times. Folks occasionally will wonder by just to check things out. My sons, daughter or wife all know the routine: it's just like making a traffic stop. One of us (usually me, armed) will greet the approaching visitor and the other (armed) shooter will back off to give reaction time and to be able to keep the whole situation under observation (just like the second person (reserve?) in a two man car). If the person wants to watch, he's invited to watch from a point well away from the firing line (ricochets and such, you know). If he won't move away, we just quit. Usually the visitor will catch on right away that he /they are under observation and are being scrutinized and will flare off.

If I'm by myself (again, armed at all times) it's just like making a contact on the street: polite but bearing (attitude) is everything. Hope I effect the feeling that I'm not someone to be trifled with. In all cases; if there is any "hinky-ness" or if things just don't seem copasetic, we're done shooting.

Hey, this sounds like Officer Survival 101...
Tom

[Hobie]

You're right. It is survival time.

I also schedule my range visits EARLY in the morning. Tends to weed out the lazy, drunk, doped up thieves who are still passed out somewhere.

Oh, and remember the Miami shootout guys who murdered a guy who was out shooting. It pays to be careful.

[Andrew]

You're right. It is survival time.

I also schedule my range visits EARLY in the morning. Tends to weed out the lazy, drunk, doped up thieves who are still passed out somewhere.

I always try to go in the mornings too, but I do it to avoid everyone. I have only encountered others a few times out of the several times I go out to the range; always in the afternoon, never in the morning. It is public and remote, so I will start taking my .45 with me whether I plan to shoot it or not.

BTW, thieves really get my blood boiling.

[kaschi]

Here in Pennsylvania at ranges maintained by the PA Game Commission, they told me it was against regulations to take a firearm beyond the firing line. I had heard about incidents where some creeps would be hiding out and watching for shooters to check targets, then move in and steal guns. Upon hearing this, I always carried my rifle with me to the target until a fellow shooter showed up one day and said if the Game Commission sees that, expect a fine! Leave it to the bureaucrats. If it ain't screwed up, they'll work at it until it is!

[rjohns94]

yes, that is the rule on game land ranges, but since my carry gun is concealed, no one knows I have it down range. I don't take the range guns past the line. I read the rule as not applicable to my ccw pistol.

[Ysabel Kid]

I heard of some guys that were robbing shooters at gun point while they changed there targets on blm land out side reno. They would watch from a over look and rush in suprising their victims aperently some high profile stuff got riped off and it was easily spotted at a gun show. I realy dont think I would shoot at the phantom atv'ers that were taking my range guns but it would shure ruin my day

THAT takes some brass ones - rushing guys practicing shooting while they have their guns around!

BTW, thieves really get my blood boiling.

You and me both brother! I personally believe thieves should be able to be shot at will for no other reason than the scumbags are trying to steal what someone else earned!!!

[Doc Hudson]

Oh, and remember the Miami shootout guys who murdered a guy who was out shooting. It pays to be careful.

That incident has been on my mind since I started reading this thread.


I can't remember the last time I went to change, repair, or move targets without at least a sixgun on my hip, and generally a rifle on my shoulder. I figure that anyone stealing my guns are intending to shoot me to get the rest. I would consider shooting to be self-defense.

[CaptainFinn]

I think JJ Miller saw or heard about this...a couple of weeks back a local minister was murdered at an 'un-staffed' local rifle range. He was shot in the back of the head while sitting at a rifle bench. His guns were taken by the killers.

The following morning, two forest service workers found the minister's body laying on the empty rifle range.

Apparently their M.O. was to wait until someone was by themselves, then steal the guns. The killers were caught after a short manhunt. Two Army deserters from upstate New York.

After living in Florida for two decades, the idea of an 'unmanned' rifle range just amazes me. How much would it cost to staff the place ? And I know this is a sore subject, but allowing shooters to 'supervise themselves'...I've seen way too many unsafe gun-handling incidents, especially by casual hunters/target shooters. And then there's situations like this...the whole security issue.

Having one or two range officers at a rifle range, no matter how small, just seems like a no-brainer. This poor man's family wouldn't be in mourning right now and these scumbags wouldn't have been out on the streets with stolen firearms (albeit for less then a week).

[shawn_c992001]

JJ where did this happen? What range was this?

Guess I'll just start carrying my 10mm with me down range.

[Modoc ED]

We have almost none of this type of behavior in my county/area. That's because the Sheriff issues CCW permits on request. The last murder in our county was about 6 or 8 years ago.

Because so many people here have CCW permits, nobody can be sure who does or doesn't have a gun on them. There are about 10,000 people in my county (roughly 70 miles wide by 60 miles tall) and it's said that over 80% of those old enough to own a handgun have a CCW permit.

Having said all that, as stated earlier, I still carry a loaded gun down range with me to tend my targets whether at our organized range or out in the boonies.

[bhk]

If we had to pay supervisors to watch over all our public ranges in Missouri, the ranges would soon close. Most of our Conservation Department rural ranges are unsupervised, and many are not used much during most of the year. I drive by one of these ranges a couple times a week on weekdays (including today), and I'll bet that someone is there shooting only 10% of the time (on weekdays). It is a busier on weekends, especially prioir to the hunting seasons. The conservation department does supervise ranges that a proximate to urban/suburban areas.

[AJMD429]

Sad but true - you have to fend for yourself much of the time. Take a friend, or be very aware of your surroundings WHEREVER you are. Of course sitting with hearing protectors on at the range, you would be easy prey, and you can't "draw down" on anyone coming up from behind you.

It mightn't be silly to glue one of those convex mirrors on your range-box though, so at least you could give a friendly glance over the shoulder if you see movement...

[CaptainFinn]

JJ where did this happen? What range was this?

Guess I'll just start carrying my 10mm with me down range.

This question was directed to JJ, but I'll chime in...

The range in question, I believe, was Birch Fork in Wayne County, outside of Huntington. It was a public lands range, unsupervised. happened about 3-4 weeks ago.

Two army deserters apparently satked out the range, waited until the poor fellow was sitting at the bench shooting, then came up behind him and executed him. They took the guns and sold them on the black market and holed up at the trailer of a former army comrade. They were caught after a week or so. One of them still had the victim's pistol in his possession.

On a side note, the Army said it wasn't even pursuing them as deserters. Apparently the gov. doesn't care, they just mark you as having deserted and then write you off.

Back in the day, deserting the army and murdering a civilian would have brought about swift and final military justice. Now, though, apparently, they are content to let the civil authorities handle it. I only hope in either case the death penalty is allowed, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

[Modoc ED]

I'll add to my other two posts in this thread and say that when I go fishing anymore, I always have a revolver in the bottom of my fishing tackle box. No telling what critters (4-legs or 2-legs or slithery) I'll run into.

[wildmanh]

I only got to a range with at least 1 buddy. Be that an indoor or out door range. When I'm at an outdoor range I like to have 3+ people and leave 1 of then with a loaded gun watching the other guns. Went shooting Friday with friends at an outdoor public range, there were 5 of us. Some guys followed us into the range, drove around "checking" stuff out then eventually left. I kept my Ruger blackhawk loaded on my hip and some rounds in a rifle till they were gone. When I would go check my targets I left someone on the line with an M4 and had my Marlin loaded and ready just incase. Another public range I shoot at is in a hill and you can see people aproaching from a long ways off. Even so, when I go reset or check targets I'm almost always packing either a loaded rifle or pistol. Safety first! And that includes keeping an eye out for potential 2 legged threats.

Heber

[morgan in nm]

Folks, this is the first I have heard about this. What will the sorry critters think of next.

It seems to me that many ranges can be secured through volunteer personel. I imagine, in many states, they probably require that any range personel must have qualifications to observe the safety and security of a public range but I don't know. If no such restriction is in place, that might be a plan that could deter such crooks. There are a couple of public ranges around here but I have never heard of any problems like this.

[CaptainFinn]

I worked at a Florida range that had a massive Range Officer presence--one officer for every eight shooters on the firing line, in addition to a range officer on every trap and skeet field and two to three 'roaming' officers on the back line.

We still would get an occcasional 'attempt' to grab a firearm off of a bench or shooting rack. It happened more often then you'd think although no one ever actually 'got away' with a firearm.

During the vendor's Challenge Trap and Skeet tournement, some soul spotted a $25,000 + Perazzi Skeet Gun sitting in a rack on an occupied skeet field. There were 6 shooters in the squad, plus a dozen or so other folks waiting for the next flight, and a couple of dozen spectators back behind the rear line of the skeet field. Some goblin ambled up to the rack, casually picked up the shotgun and made it into the back parking lot and got into a truck with an accomplice waiting behind the wheel.

The gun owner was on the skeet field chatting with a friend. he turned, saw the missing gun, and took off in a dead sprint for the parking lot as the truck drove by.

He took a full-off leap through the open window of the truck and grabbed the passnger by the throat, causing the truck to crash.

He got the shotgun back, though.

[JJ_Miller]

Sorry its took so long to get back to this topic. Yes, you were correct in the murder of the preacher, and the other theft took place in Panther State Park, McDowell Co. They made off with a pre-64 Super Grade 30-06 and two .22 Browning rifles.....................JJ