OT - Self defense handgun recommendation needed...

[Comal Forge]

My wife can handle a 1911 in .45 but she shoots a Browning .22 auto extremely well so I loaded it with Stingers and let her put it where she can find it if I'm not around. It may not be a qualified man stopper but 9 rounds of .22's in the chest should take the fight out of most folks and I know she can shoot well enough to do that.

[FWiedner]

CF, I think that you seriously overestimate the resolve of "most" folk.

In my experience, humans have a serious aversion to having daylight introduced to their innards, whatever the dimensions of the offending portal. Statistically, a lot of bad guys keep coming because they don't know that they've been shot. Once they are aware, they either run or they fall down screaming.

I wonder if it's possible to count the number of numbskulls that have been killed by the puny .22LR.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd bet that 1 or 2 of those Stingers square in the chest would make "most" unwelcomed houseguests want to leave the way they came in.

[Andrew]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd bet that 1 or 2 of those Stingers square in the chest would make "most" unwelcomed houseguests want to leave the way they came in.

And quickly.

[bogus bill]

Many years ago I had a friend co-worker that had retired as leut of homicide in indiappolis. He told me that getting hit with a lowly .22 in the chest cavity usualy was the worst caliber to get hit with as the bullet seemed prone to ricochey from rib to rib makeing a huge mess. Conversly, he also said he had a partner that got shot with one, it didnt hit any ribs or vitals but drilled straight through. He said the doctor put a bandaid on the entrance and exit wound and sent him home! Of course I think this was back in the 1940s.

[donw]

[quote][/quote]

my cousin is one of those who shot some one with a .22 (an m16 in 'nam) and the bullet went straight thru. they captured the VC, put band aids on him and he escaped shortly thereafter.

i also had a co-worker, a retired sgt maj abn/sf, who shot a VC point blank with his .45 auto to no avail...

i'm sure there are many, many other stories...

[Idahoser]

It's a scale of preparedness we're talking about here. Walking around with your head up, meeting the eyes of people, looking 'aware' will turn away many who might try to prey on you. Showing a gun is going to scare away a good number of those who are in it for a profit.

But remember, we're talking about a situation here, where you have somebody who is so bad, doing something so terrible, that you've got to shoot him to make him stop.

At this point it's no longer bluff, the metal meets the meat and right about here you're beginning to be aware of the 'why' of a 'real' caliber. Sure, lots of people have died from .22. Did they finish what they were doing before they died? Did it (as we are taught) "stop the threat" or did shooting him have less than the desired effect?

Look, there's all kinds of little slogans that we use as rules of thumb. I hear from supposedly intelligent people "shot placement is everything" as if caliber and bullet design and velocity didn't matter. Sufficient penetration can be had from a .22, but will it do the job?
What if your own heart rate and adrenalin level don't let you get that perfect shot placement? Will it make ANY difference if you shoot him in the belly with a .22 or a .357?

We choose the most powerful caliber we can comfortably control because more power gives us more chance that, having let ourselves be drawn into a situation where we face someone we are obliged to shoot and having had the forethought to arm ourselves against such an encounter, we now are stuck with the choice we made. Don't let it be 'not enough' because you heard a slogan and didn't put any more thought into it than that. Sure you may end up with the .22 as all you can manage. I bet it's not though.

[ajw65]

I just did the revolver semi auto on a table thing with several people today that had never fired a handgun. The 2 guns was a s&w 642 and a glock 19. Every single one of them picked the g19 over the revolver. Everyone of them said the glock was easier and more pleasant to shoot.
Several had wanted to pick the revolver as the one they would want for self defense, but after shooting them both, none wanted the revolver.
I have carried both the revolver and semi as duty weapons on the department I worked with.
Several things become clear. Even though the revolvers were more accurate in a rest. The qualification scores jumped about 10% with the semi autos.
This department had 230 officers at the time..
For a woman I would recommend the Glock, S&W,Springfield XD, or the Kahr in 9mm. The ones that don't have a bunch of levers or safeties on the side.

[Ysabel Kid]

Not ignoring you guys - and I appreciate all the input. Just figured I'd let this one ride a bit given all the great discussion. I will edit it a bit when done, and print the whole thing out for my friend's wife.

Thanks!!!

[OJ]

It would be a mistake to buy a gun for her current 'needs'. All these limitations are false, she needs to learn how to do these things.

Now, a mistaken choice is better than no gun. That's why my Grandma still has (buried in the cedar chest) the RG .22 revolver her long dead husband gave her. If I can't get her to actually shoot, learn a little, practice a little, and have a real gun, well, at least she's not "afraid of guns".

We can't always get through to people, but your friend needs to practice and find out she can indeed rack a slide or work a double action.

A person who likes guns will learn about a semi-auto. A person who wants a gun will not, and should not be suggested one. A revolver is THE gun for this person.

Sounds right to me - we had a "little old lady" - really little and about 80 - get professional training with her .38 special revolver for personal defense. When a serial rapist (he had a long record - even leaving victims to die after raping them) tried breaking in her back door, she shouted at him, flashed lights - but he persisted so, she emptied her revolver at him - hitting him 5 of the 6 shots. He retreated and tried driving away but passed out from blood loss and was picked up by police because his car ran into parked cars. Then the story came out and he was incarceerated after leaving the hospital.

Her training was good though. The first thing she did after emptying her revolver was to reload it - then she called 911 !!!

She was named "Citizen of the Year in Colorado Springs".

I'm grateful to her because my wife met her and became convinced she really could use the revolver I gave her for personal defense (revolver her choice after I took her to the range to try out a wide variety of revolvers and semi-auto pistols).



YMMV

[Hobie]

An SP101 shooting Specials would be easy easy to cock and control.

I'm another that would vote for the SP101 in .357 or .327 Federal and for much the same reasons as you usually recommend a .357. In fact, this is exactly what I recently recommended. A 101 can be shot single-action AND the grip fits a lot of women.

I have to agree that technique can overcome a lot of shortfalls in the strength department but if a person is so weak that they feel something is impossible and they aren't willing to build up to "normal" levels (or can't another issue entirely) then they are likely to give it all up anyway.

[20cows]

Problem # 1 – she did not have the strength to pull the trigger in double action mode on the snubbie revolver.

Problem # 2 – she did not have the strength to rack the slide or pull the trigger when in double-action on the PPK-clone. She did shoot it well in single-action mode though.

Problem # 3 – She liked the 9mm, but it was a bit too large for her, and recoiled more than she liked. She shot it better than the revolver, but not nearly as well as the FEG.

I hate to sound so negative, but I have seen this before. Does she REALLY want a gun, or is she enjoying all the attention in "needing help" from the guys?

If she wants a gun, she needs some grit to use it.

(Yep, that sounds pretty negative).

[Tycer]

Problem # 1 – she did not have the strength to pull the trigger in double action mode on the snubbie revolver.

Problem # 2 – she did not have the strength to rack the slide or pull the trigger when in double-action on the PPK-clone. She did shoot it well in single-action mode though.

Problem # 3 – She liked the 9mm, but it was a bit too large for her, and recoiled more than she liked. She shot it better than the revolver, but not nearly as well as the FEG.

I hate to sound so negative, but I have seen this before. Does she REALLY want a gun, or is she enjoying all the attention in "needing help" from the guys?

If she wants a gun, she needs some grit to use it.

(Yep, that sounds pretty negative).

That's not negative if you've experienced it before. You are just stating a possibility.

In her defense, and no offense to the guns mentioned or their owner .........

I had an 877 and got rid of it after feeling the difference between it and a Smith trigger. It was stiff and gritty in comparison. Granted, it was an older Interarms Rossi and I had done no work to it. I looked inside it, but never took it apart all the way like I would now.

The only FEG I ever shot had a really stiff recoil spring. I don't know what model it was, but it looked like a Walther.

The FM Detective is a short barreled gun and has a stiffer spring than the long barreled ones, and might give a more immediate, sharp recoil versus one with a softer spring and longer slide travel. It's amazing to me how little time is required to reduce felt recoil - the mercury recoil reducers are a great example - I swapped a chunk of lead in my 86 for a mercury one that weighed about the same and could feel the difference.
Also, I've shot a couple of HighPowers and they don't fit my stubby fingered hands for beans.

There's lots of guns and plenty of time. Keep trying until she goes OOOHHHHH I WANT THIS ONE!!! and then give her that one and go buy yourself it's replacement.

[footlong]

Heres what worked for me and mine. I bought a mod36 smith for my wife on our first Xmas. Took her and had her
shoot it w/no earplugs. Big mistake. She didnt touch it again for 7-8 yrs. Then sent her to a handgun class with the
girl across the street. She ended up scoring 86 at the range. The girl across the street shot 94. Her pistol was a
ruger single six in 22lr. My daughter comes along and starts shooting with me at age 7. Since I was into IHMSA
she wanted to shoot what daddy and PAPA shot. Me a mod29 smith. Papa a SBH. I bought her a mod48 smith 4'' w/xtra
cyl. The daughter likes ANY pistol cause she likes to shoot. The bigger the better. I have not gone past the 29smith
with her because I have no desire for anything bigger. She might like even a smith 500. Who knows. The mod48
is under her pillow still w/40gr wmr's in the tank. I will say it is the smoothest da I have ever shot. Smith did the
action when the 22lr cyl was fitted. I think the action job is necessary for flawless dependable use. She's 35 now
and we still go to the range now and then. She does NOT use a pistol for concealed carry. Says she does not need
another cause she is gonna get DADDY'S pistols one day anyway. Rmember the greatest shot that ever lived was a
small ''weak'' female. Annie Oakley

[KCSO]

My Daughter (5-5 125) found that she could shoot and manipulate my S and W 669 just as easily as the Walther PPK. The issue of racking the slide was simplified by the ambi safety. The safety acts like ears and gives more purchase to the hand and the locked breech makes pulling the slide a lot easier than the stiff springs of a blowback pistol. In addition the all stainless steel pistol has just enough weight to make the recoil managable for a novice. Once you have a roound chambered you have 12 chances to score and the added mag capacity and the choice of single or double action helped in the accuracy department. IMHO the difference in recoil between a 380 and a 9 mm in appropriate guns suggests that the 9 would be a preferable choice.

[Ysabel Kid]

In her defense, and no offense to the guns mentioned or their owner .........

I think Tycer just "dissed" my guns!

I've been told I have a pretty strong grip, so I guess I just never noticed. I have felt plenty of guns with horrible triggers, but I wouldn't rate any of these in that category. I think she just wanted to use a .380 ACP semi-auto, after having done some preliminary research. She certainly shot it better than I expected.

I think the general consensus is correct - she needs to work on strengthening her grip and trigger finger, should get something she is comfortable with - and then practice with it a lot. All of which I recommended. Thanks again guys for all the input - this will help. I will let you know what she decides.

[JohndeFresno]

It would be a mistake to buy a gun for her current 'needs'. All these limitations are false, she needs to learn how to do these things.

Now, a mistaken choice is better than no gun. That's why my Grandma still has (buried in the cedar chest) the RG .22 revolver her long dead husband gave her. If I can't get her to actually shoot, learn a little, practice a little, and have a real gun, well, at least she's not "afraid of guns".

We can't always get through to people, but your friend needs to practice and find out she can indeed rack a slide or work a double action.

A person who likes guns will learn about a semi-auto. A person who wants a gun will not, and should not be suggested one. A revolver is THE gun for this person.

One of the best answers, I think.

Many years ago, a fellow deputy sheriff's wife was attacked and raped at her home, in front of her baby. She had steadfastly refused to learn how to use a handgun that was in fact available to her. When the intruder burst into the house, she pulled out the handgun and tried to use it; but didn't realize that she had to pull back the slide to chamber a round.

My wife had never fired a handgun, and in fact was afraid of guns because a mean-spirited uncle had invited her to shoot a 3-inch Magnum shotgun when she was a child, which of course knocked her down and turned her off from guns "permanently."

Yet I insisted that she learn. We started out with a .22 Ruger Single-Action, then a lightly loaded 2" .38 (wadcutters), and finally moved up to a .380 semi-auto, which SHE LIKED. By the way, with the proper indoctrination, she could fire my .45 ACP duty gun, having slowly gained confidence with the others, one at a time. And she is not a strong person; but she managed to manipulate the rather stiff slide (it had a Wolff extra-strength recoil spring for my 1000 fps loads).

It is all about acclimatization and, after proper exposure, USING WHAT SHE IS COMFORTABLE WITH. My wife, by the way, ended up carrying a Hechler & Koch HK-4 .380 semi-auto, and could shoot tighter groups than some of those with whom I worked - as evidenced by what I saw on range day! Too bad HK-4's are no longer available, since they are light (the first plastic and composite handgun, I believe), but with an adequate recoil spring to handle the load, and are very, very concealable.

But if your trainee can handle it, the Bersa .380 might be just the ticket; and the gentle .380 with today's bullets is nothing to sneeze at for close combat. Especially if she can actually hit something with it! It is affordable, small, dependable and available - even in California. And unlike the newly acclaimed .32 Magnum, it doesn't blind you or blow your ears out when you have to use it without range muffs or at night.

I am not a range master, but I have trained my share of new shooters, and have helped fellow cops to improve their aim on many occasions. With that proviso, I have a problem with so many people making a life-long decision based upon how a gun looks and feels in a gun store, or after firing 6 rounds in a quiet, controlled environment.

ANY skill worth having takes indoctrination and at least some training; and the same rules apply to finding the right handgun. It might be one of the most important choices - or mistakes - a person can make in their lifetime.

[Tycer]

In her defense, and no offense to the guns mentioned or their owner .........

I think Tycer just "dissed" my guns!

Naaaaahhh. Just tryin to make the point that there are thousands of guns to choose from and there might be one out there that turns her crank.

[tman]

glock model 26-.9mm

[footlong]

I have a Smith mod15 2''. My daughter loves to shoot it. I guess she likes it because it feels like her mod48.
The only gun I own that she has made any mention of having a ''jump'' is a Beretta 84 single stack 380acp.
I also have the Beretta's twin in 22lr. The 22 is much more pleasent to shoot. I personally love my Manhuran
in 32acp. for carrying and shooting. (Walther PP).