Anyone shoot a scout rifle?

[Scott Tschirhart]

Here’s a great discussion of the Scout Rifle concept.

https://youtu.be/sNne9QX6P6c?is=SGst-kIdMbsKkfB1

[Lastmohecken]

I have watched that video before. And I have several books by him. He is right in the fact that is nearly impossible to find or even build a true Scout that meets all of Cooper's wants. It can be done but it's not cheap to do it right, However, I don't think all of Cooper's requirements are needed or even desired, to create a very handy rifle, that covers most of Cooper's ideas of what a light all-purpose rifle should be. In this video, Mann addressed the cons of the forward mounted scope. And he hit it right on the head of the nail. RESOLUTION! I have built, or set up, about three so called Scout rifles, none were true Scouts, but they did have the forward mounted scope. Mann is correct and likes the 2 x 7 variable. In my opinion that is the best of the breed of forward mounted scopes.

But they are still inferior for hunting in the brush and woods, to a lower powered variable conventionally mounted scope. On a game animal standing in the open in good light, the Scout scope works fine, just like Mann said. But I do like most of the features and ideas behind the Scout Scope Concept. But for me, it comes down to having a fast handling and light rifle, with a low powered variable scope, a decent trigger, and a butter smooth action. I don't want a box magazine hang down in the way, and I don't want a long butt stock. I usually have to shorten mine down to 13.25 to `13-1/2" length of pull so it comes up fast, without fowling on clothing, jackets, harnesses, etc. I do agree that .308 is probably the very best caliber.

And I am not sure, that even Cooper ever built a Scout Rifle that met all of his specifications, completely.

[jeepnik]

Like I said, it's a concept. Not everyone has the same needs, or frankly, desires. But the universal truth seems to be a rifle with good accuracy that's easily portable still has one limiting factor. One that no amount of technology or tinkering can resolve.

My dad put it succinctly and it's in my sig line.
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it".

Oh that limiting factor. It's the man behind the rifle.

[OldWin]

It seems the last few years that the scout concept gets more negative comments. Especially the earlier fixed power optics. Poor clarity, not variable, poor light transmission, take your pick. I'm sure if someone is a "scope guy", and used to 30mm tubes, cutting edge lenses, and 1-10x variables, they look pretty bad.
For myself, I came from iron sights, so they look pretty good. I use the old Leupold FX2.5 and the Burris 2.75 scout and have shot deer in extremely thick woods. For my use, I don't have any interest in the heavier, more complex variables with varying eye relief. Not interested.
I much prefer light, compact, and fast.
It's funny that with all the hate these optics get, red dots don't seem to get as much, and suffer the same limitations. To me, a scout scope actually has more in common with a red dot than a variable, long range optic. I think Cooper would have leaned more in that direction had the red dots of the day been a little further along in reliability and battery life.
Alas, it's just one hick's opinion.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I’m not sure why people get so hung up on the original specifications for a Scout Rifle. Cooper did not do so.

For example, Cooper thought that the ideal cartridge should be the .30-06 but he settled for the.308 or 7mm 08.

[Scott Tschirhart]

Cooper recognized that there was nothing magical about the 7 pound weight limit and that it was difficult to achieve.

[Scott Tschirhart]

In fact his original thoughts did not include a telescopic sight.

[OldWin]

Absolutely. Many today say Cooper was close- minded on the scout, and other subjects. I disagree. I think that keeping an open mind is what brought about the scout. It's just that everyone tries to put in a category that they like.
Hunting rifle, target rifle, or combat rifle. It's none of those.....and all of those.
It flat out works for me about 75% of the time. Of course, I'm coming almost exclusively from a Winchester carbine. Something Cooper also saw the merits of. Quite honestly, the biggest adjustment for me was running a bolt. The forward mounted, low power optics utilizing the Bindon concept came very natural to me. Only a red dot is as fast or faster on target for me.

[jeepnik]

I think where folks get confused is that Steyr came up with the first commercial rifle called a Scout in collaboration with Cooper. Even Cooper admitted it wasn't perfect. But it was pretty close to his concept. And his writing about that rifle sort of solidified what a "Scout Rifle" should be in the minds of many, maybe even most folks.

Personally, I feel his concept was lacking in that while a scout might not intend to get into a fire fight, if they do they are going to need something that has more firepower (whatever exactly that is). So with something like the M1A Scout Squad, while you give up in the weight category, you gain significantly in the firepower. Load one shoot one with a full magazine in reserve might serve better in the sniper role, once a scout starts needing to shoot they don't need any extra manipulations. Heck most folks can change a magazine as fast as they could single load a bolt rifle.

[Scott Tschirhart]

Personally, I feel his concept was lacking in that while a scout might not intend to get into a fire fight, if they do they are going to need something that has more firepower (whatever exactly that is). So with something like the M1A Scout Squad, while you give up in the weight category, you gain significantly in the firepower. Load one shoot one with a full magazine in reserve might serve better in the sniper role, once a scout starts needing to shoot they don't need any extra manipulations. Heck most folks can change a magazine as fast as they could single load a bolt rifle.

Let’s think about this. When was the last time you were in a firefight as a civilian? It’s never happened to me.

But, I’ve shot a lot of deer and a few other critters with mine. I’ve carried Ming hard against the border and was well armed. So for a practical rifle, it probably serves my needs as well as anything.

[jeepnik]

Personally, I feel his concept was lacking in that while a scout might not intend to get into a fire fight, if they do they are going to need something that has more firepower (whatever exactly that is). So with something like the M1A Scout Squad, while you give up in the weight category, you gain significantly in the firepower. Load one shoot one with a full magazine in reserve might serve better in the sniper role, once a scout starts needing to shoot they don't need any extra manipulations. Heck most folks can change a magazine as fast as they could single load a bolt rifle.

Let’s think about this. When was the last time you were in a firefight as a civilian? It’s never happened to me.

But, I’ve shot a lot of deer and a few other critters with mine. I’ve carried Ming hard against the border and was well armed. So for a practical rifle, it probably serves my needs as well as anything.

So, you're saying that all we really need are Flintlocks (yes, I'm being facetious). After all when was the last time most of us were scouting in a military sense?

I'll revert to my dad's advice. He didn't say what type of rifle. Just that it be "good". To him and me, that means an accurate and reliable rifle. Caliber was never mentioned but he pretty much use the 30-06.
His "good rifle" had to be capable of taking animals for food and men for both defense and (heaven forbid we say it) offense.
Dad was a WWII combat vet. His "good rifle" that my eldest now has, is a Garand. A 30-06 chambered, clip fed, gas operated, semiautomatic weapon.

My "good rifle" is an M1A1 Scout Squad. A.308 chambered, magazine fed, gas operated, semiautomatic weapon. I'm pretty sure he would approve.