Anyone shoot a scout rifle?

[Paladin]

Does anyone like to shoot a scout rifle?

https://emptycases.substack.com/p/sco ... nhbb5efrw

[Lastmohecken]

I have built a couple of them, but none would have qualified as true scout rifles. Two were leveractions. They are pretty useful guns, and I have taken game with them. While I can shoot the forward mounted scope, I don't like them for hunting. But the idea of a light rifle, with optional iron sights does appeal to me. But I do not find the forward mounted scope any faster to use than a low powered regular scope. And on one hog hunt, I made good use of the auxiliary iron sights, when I removed the Aimpoint after finding it hard to use in the dark timber in the rain. But that's the only time, I ever needed to remove a scope, or electronic sight to go to irons in over 50 years of hunting. There were a few times when I had a scoped rifle and wished that I had been carrying an open sighted Winchester instead, but everything happed way too fast to ever make good on a detachable scope option to go to irons in time to matter.

I do have a Ruger 77 Ultra-Light with a 20 inch barrel in 308 Win, with a low mounted 2 x 7 Leupold scope on it. That's a very light and compact rifle, and very fast to shoot, but it's still not a Scout rifle, because it has no back up iron sights, no detachable magazine either. However, I think it would make weight. Even Jeff Cooper, in his writings once said paraphrased here "If you can't afford a true scout rifle, just get a Ruger 77 Ultra Light and mount a low powered scope on it. You won't have a scout rifle, but you will have a very light and useful general-purpose rifle".

Of course, one of the reason's Cooper liked the forward mounted scope, was so he could use stripper clips, since the action was open and clear of the scope. I still like the idea of stripper clips, as opposed to those horrible box magazines hanging down, so common in modern boltactions, today.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I do quite a bit. I’ve taken more deer with a Scout Rifle than anything else. At Gunsite we learned to hit a thrown clay pidgen and you could get pretty good at that.

[Scott Tschirhart]

The one I took to Raton has a plastic stock and a short barrel. Very light. This is probably my favorite. I don’t mind the box magazine and it does away with the need for stripper clips.

[Lastmohecken]

The one I took to Raton has a plastic stock and a short barrel. Very light. This is probably my favorite. I don’t mind the box magazine and it does away with the need for stripper clips.

Scott,
How much does this one weigh?

[EdinCT]

I had one on a 32 Special but gave the rifle to one of my sons. It accounted for several deer for me and I found it very shootable. I even shot a big doe running the last time I hunted it with no trouble with sight picture or field of view. I may set up a 30-30 I just bought the same way. My eyes aren't what they once were even with peep sights 4 inches at 50 yards is about all I can do.
https://www.levergunscommunity.org/view ... pe#p704641

[Scott Tschirhart]

[quote=Lastmohecken post_id=1029244 time=1781654780

Scott,
How much does this one weigh?
[/quote]

No idea. Probably about 6 pounds.

[Lastmohecken]

I have another rifle that was inspired by Jeff Cooper, back in the day. If I recall correctly, Cooper had a 350 Remington Mag, he called "Baby". I might post a picture of mine later, but I know it is way back in the back of my safe and I will have to drag out 20 rifles just to get to it, but I went through a period in my life where I used it extensively and shot a lot of game with it. I found it new in the box at a gun show close to 30 years ago. It's a Remington 700 Classic in .350 REM MAG. Remington only made it for one year, 1987. In all of those years it never seen a factory round put through it. I always used my handloads. Probably the very best thumper, that I ever used. I ran a 1.75 x 6 Leupold Vari-X III scope on it. And I installed a mid-mount sling swivel on it, so I could move my sling rear sling swivel to the mid mount location and thrust my elbow through it for a quick but very effective method to sling up for a steady hold. I think Cooper called that a Chin sling or something like that. Anyway, that was a pretty good system. Of course, it didn't qualify as a Scout Rifle but suited me very much. I think Cooper call the .350 his Fire Plug.

[jeepnik]

The scout rifle perfected.

[samsi]

Cooper had a number of Scouts built in the lead-up to finalizing the concept. The 350 Rem Mag sometimes referred to as Fireplug was renamed the Lion Scout after he used it in Africa. Baby was not a Scout, but the big 460 G&A on the Brno action.

I've handled (but never shot) a few Scouts and nearly bought the Steyr on 2 occasions, in addition to a Rem 600 that I purchased with a Scout project in mind. Now Ruger has the American II avaible in Scout configuration - proof that if you procrastinate long enough someone else will do it for you.

[nwcatman]

The scout rifle perfected.

thats my truck gun. the SOCOM

[nwcatman]

The one I took to Raton has a plastic stock and a short barrel. Very light. This is probably my favorite. I don’t mind the box magazine and it does away with the need for stripper clips.

what is it? i have a mossberg scout rifle that looks like that. i think.

[piller]

My older brother had, probably still has a Steyr Scout rifle. I have never had a chance to shoot it.

[Lastmohecken]

I have handled the Steyr Scout rifle complete with the Leupold scout scope on it, on several occasions. I kind of like them but never seen a good deal on a used one. I don't really like that wheel safety system on the Steyr, and my nephew had a .376 Steyr and had issues with the wheel safety, years ago and finally traded it off. But it's still an interesting rifle.

I have tried the Scout rifle concept probably at least 3 different times. Once with a Leupold Scout scope, and twice with a Burris Pistol scope. The last time with a Burris 2 x 7 variable Pistol scope. And I think it was the best of the Scout scope systems that I tried. But under hunting conditions, I would find them all more difficult to use, sometimes. I just didn't get the definition I needed at longer ranges and in poor light, and once when deer hunting the sun was making it very difficult to use the Scout scope for some reason. It was glare, that was messing me up, and I could have done much better with Irons, but even if I had a quick detachable scope, there wasn't time to make the switch, anyway.

[Malamute]

Scout discussions are interesting to watch. I think few have a complete picture of what the concept was. A forward mounted scope does not make a scout, nor is a forward mounted scope a requirement, though they were preferred at the time, for several reasons. stripper clip use being one, being able to hold the gun around the middle to hand carry was another reason.

Most pseudo-scouts dont qualify due to weight, which was one of the primary factors in the concept. The M1A mentioned above doesnt qualify due to weight, regardless of its other attributes, unless something has changed dramatically recently. The Ruger "scout" rifles have I believe always been much over weight for a true scout.

One thing Cooper wrote was McBrides mentioning a captured German scout in WWI, the german laughed at the American rifles as being so heavy, the german was carrying a light sporter rifle. This made an impression on Mcbride, realizing it was a more practical and useful rifle for the conditions the scout was dealing with, Cooper concurred in that conclusion.

Without looking again at the specifics, light weight, short length, medium caliber capable up to I think 600 lbs-ish animal weight, precision enough to make certain hits to 300-maybe 600 yards? A super handy, easy to always have in hand at all times rifle. Cooper mentioned several guns that helped inspire some of the concept, to include a 94 winchester carbine, it met weight and length, low end of caliber but very useful regardless. He mentioned other guns that were influential. It was also not entirely his idea, it was a group, or council that met over time discussing the ideal general purpose rifle. I would encourage anyone with the slightest interest in the concept to study up on it, most references are very brief in their level of information. I believe one other factor mentioned by Cooper was the ability to drop a horse at distance, as horses were still an implement of battle in some instances. The idea was both hunting and defensive capable, but not in the sustained firefight sense.

The preference for bolt actions was due to several factors, one, the existing self loaders didnt make weight, or caliber if light enough, like the old CAR-15s at 5 1/2 lbs, werent simple enough, or as simple to mount decent scopes on.

As someone said, Coopers suggestion for people that couldnt afford to build or buy a true scout, buy a Ruger 77 compact or lightweight, whatever they called them, put a quality 4x normal scope on it, and shoot it a lot. Part of the scope conversations were that the existing variable power scopes werent reliable enough, but I believe that has improved considerably since the original scout conferences were happening and Coopers later promotion of the idea.

The general purpose rifle concept hasnt gone away, though it means different things to different people. The more recent iterations seem to run more like conventional looking bolt guns with shorter barrels, light weight stocks, good compact glass, and pretty much done. capable of handling whatever game one may encounter is another factor.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I was fortunate enough to speak of such rifles with Col. Cooper and was able to coon finger examples of them.

Personally, I like what Ed Head came up with for Ruger as I think the Mauser action has some advantages over a push feed rifle. But most of the Scout rifles I handled in those days were push feed guns.

[Paladin]

This is the rifle I plan on shooting in the match. It meets length and almost weight requirements. It is a Springfield M1A Scout Squad with an 18-inch barrel and a lightweight stock.

M1A Scout Squad 17 Jul.jpg

This is the rifle I carried in combat in Iraq, Africa, and a few other places. Nwcatman, this is where Springfield got their SOCOM idea from (without the selector switch). After I left 10th GP I had cut the barrel down to 16 1/4 inches.

M-14K IRAQ c.jpg

I consider this Co-Pilot (that I bought from a member here) a SCOUT RIFLE, and it will shoot well enough for the match, but I can't afford the ammo it likes at that distance.

P9121177 (3).JPG

[Lastmohecken]

I was fortunate enough to speak of such rifles with Col. Cooper and was able to coon finger examples of them.

Personally, I like what Ed Head came up with for Ruger as I think the Mauser action has some advantages over a push feed rifle. But most of the Scout rifles I handled in those days were push feed guns.

I think the Mauser action's main issue for the Scout concept was weight, as it was heavier than some of the push feeds. Cooper did like the idea of a Magazine cut off, like the old Remington A303 had, so one could single load. In the end, the challenge was making weight, and very few Scout rifles make weight. Even the Styre Scout rifle doesn't make weight, but it's close. And the original Ruger Scout didn't even come close to making weight. Just about all of the factory Scout rifle attempts never made weight. There may be some Johnny come lately's that finally made weight. But mostly it's been a custom game, to get there.

When Ruger came back out with the Scout recently, does it make weight, or make it possible to make weight?

[Scott Tschirhart]

Detachable box magazines make a magazine cut off feature less important.

But you are correct. It is very difficult to make the target weight.

[jeepnik]

The "scout" rifle is a concept. Not something written in stone. The idea of a light, yet powerful rifle with adequate accuracy goes way back before Cooper popularized it. Let's face it, before bolt action rifles were popular the levergun in various guises was the scout rifle. And it still serves well in that roll. The main reason I consider my M1A Scout/Squad my go to is ammo availability. I'm likely to have a better chance of resupplying with .308 than with my preferred levergun a 1895 GS in 45-70. Both of which, because they are more lefty friendly are better for this southpaw. I do have left handed bolt guns, but they aren't as suited for the type of service a scout rifle is expected to see.

[Scott Tschirhart]

Jim Wilson and I made a trip down hard against the border several years ago and we carried our Scout Rifles as opposed to AR-15s for good reason.

Powerful and easy to carry and handle and probably easier to hit with at a variety of ranges.

[Scott Tschirhart]

Last week in Raton. I’m still toting my Scout Rifle.

The idea of a general purpose rifle is as valid as when Col. Cooper first wrote about the concept.

[junkbug]

Hi Scott,
A few months ago I got the urge to look for a Ruger Scout. I saw one about three years ago used for $700 and did not buy it. It was gone the next day.

I have found out recently that the Ruger M77 Scout is no longer available. Completely unobtainable, except in .350 Legend, which is the wrong cartridge for that concept. The replacement is the Ruger G2 American Scout. Perhaps capable, but about as ugly as can be. Personally, I really don’t like pickatinny rails. The reviews are not yet in as to whether it is a worthy replacement.

That is a letdown. Maybe I should look for an older M-77 lightweight, as Cooper suggested.

As an aside, I also find myself tempted by the Ruger M-77 African in .270 Winchester. Not the scout concept, but still a new, quality, general purpose rifle that is not really heavy. But heavier than a Scout.

[OldWin]

I've been a fan of the concept for many years. While i still carry a Winchester carbine more than anything, the scout rifle is a close second. In reality, there are very few true scout rifles, as most (mine included) don't make weight. The forward optic was chosen by Cooper, I believe, for speed of use and situational awareness. While I really like clip loading, and have built 2 rifles utilizing them, it was not one of Coopers reasons for the forward optic.
My first "scoutish" rifle was a Winchester 94AE Trapper that I put an XS scout mount on. It worked well so I kept experimenting. I built a "pseudo scout" on a 1943 Smith Corana 1903A3. I built one for my son on a model 38 Swedish Mauser 6.5x55. This rifle will actually make weight. I put an Ultimak rail on a GI M1 carbine (very fun) also.
I've always been a fan of the M1A and have had them for decades. I got one of the first "Scouts" when they came out. I replaced the rail with an Ultimak to get an optic lower and give more flexibility. I top mounted the sling by using the rail and installing an M14 front sling swivel behind the buttplate. It's a great rifle, but much too heavy for the scout role IMO.
The Ruger GSRs were hard to find here when they came out. I finally got one and love it. While it doesn't make weight, by installing the factory synthetic stock, it comes very close. It is an unbelievably versatile rifle, and a great shooter. I use the old Leupold scout in Leupold QD rings, and can swap from it to irons or an Aimpoint with a QD in seconds. I can keep them in my pack easily, and always have them handy. While I have no wish to, I could easily get by with this as my only rifle. I was sad to see Ruger discontinued this great rifle.

[Frank500]

I’ve run a scout rifle for twenty plus years. Own two, Kimber Montana and the Ruger American Scout. The Kimber is lighter. The Ruger American Scout is impressive. Maybe makes weight, I’ll have to weigh it. My normal load is a 200 grain partition or Speer and a 125 TNT. They shoot together at 200 hundred yards and hold a half minute of angle with a Burris 2 3/4 scout scope.
It’s been dependable and handy as it should be. The iron sights and stock comb are usable. Ruger made the stock with a detachable comb so the irons are usable. I love iron sights and still shoot them. I’m getting used to the detachable magazine. Actually starting to like it. Two weeks of spring bear with it wad good. I like to carry it with 200 grain partitions in place and a magazine of 125 s for rockchucks and picket pins. Smacked s picket pin yesterday at 106 yards, sitting with Rhodesian sling.

[Scott Tschirhart]

New video

https://youtu.be/rPOSrg-YKD4?is=KIpGCu7PYT85IUj7