Granddad's Model 94 32 Winchester Special

[High Desert Hunter]

Thinking about having my Grandfather's Model 94 restored. I'm thinking it will need to be rebarreled as the bore is pitted pretty bad, that would also take care of the slight headspace issue. I never plan on selling it, and hope it stays in the family long after I'm gone. It was originally purchased new by my great grandfather in 1927 and rode in a saddle scabbard for decades. Unfortunately it was shot and put away probably 30 years ago without being cleaned. Going to try and find a decent outfit that won't require a mortgage on the house.

Dave

[FLINT]

Does it need a full restoration or could you just replace the barrel? or maybe even get it relined, so that the gun stays visually all original - since it has sentimental value?

I've rebarreled a late 40's era 32 special and it wasn't too hard to find the correct barrel style - or at least wasn't 20 years ago.

What configuration is your rifle? rifle or carbine? anything longer than 20" barrel will be harder to find, and re-line might be better.

The other thing is that you can try shooting it as/is. sometimes they still shoot ok with a rough barrel and as long as you aren't shooting a ton, a little extra headspace isn't the end of the world.

[High Desert Hunter]

It is a Saddle Ring Carbine minus the ring. It shoots ok with my powder coated 170gr cast bullets, does about the same with Hornady 170gr FN bullets. Thought about picking up an oversize locking luggage for it. Restored or not it will always have sentimental value, I will always think about the deer and elk it has taken. The miles it's traveled strapped to a saddle punching cattle and hunting. I have a few Marlins, this is my only Winchester.

Dave

[Old Savage]

Don’t change grandad’s gun, piece of history.

[Pat C]

Post type SRC barrels can be found on ebay . Anouther option is let JES rebore it to 38-55 . You can buy locking blocks and they do vary in thickness.

[Pat C]

There is a beautiful 30 WCF SRC barrel on ebay now , excellent bore and finish correct for 1920's SRC . $367 buy it now.
Thats about cost of a rebore today.

[Streetstar]

some of the darn things still shoot pretty well with a pitted barrel --- but with a headspace issue i'd opt for getting it re-lined to preserve the integrity of gramps gun as close to possible

There are some things you cant put a logical price on -- its not a Ruger 10/22

[EdinCT]

I wouldn't rush into a new barrel without cleaning the barrel really well and shoot it for groups to see. I have a frosted bore that shoots better than some new rifles I own. Replace the locking block if the primers are backing out but the rest may be fine, and original.
I had a man I worked with that inherited a 30WCF Rifle from a uncle that he said wouldn't shoot. The bore looked dark and he thought the have jess rebore it. I talked him into deep cleaning the bore and after years of copper were removed it was bright and shot great!

[High Desert Hunter]

I've run my bore scope through it, has what appear to be significant pits, and a fair amount of carbon fouling. It shoots OK, and I am trying to get the years of carbon fouling out, Kroil does a good job, but it is a long work in progress. I noticed the primers only really back out with lighter cast bullet loads, with standard 170gr jacketed they have almost no protrusion. As I am pretty heavily invested in the 32 SPL, it will be remaining a 32.

Dave

[Pat C]

Then I would buy fire lapping kit and guarentee you will see improvement.

[High Desert Hunter]

That is a good idea.

[Walt]

In his book, "When the Dogs Bark Treed", Elliot Barker recounts his time reducing the predator population at Vermejo Park in northern NM in the 20s and 30s. His rifle was a model 94 in .32 Special which he used for everything from dispatching treed mountain lions to providing elk meat and venison for the ranch hands. He also carried a .45 Colt SAA for closer work. The Winchester had a 26" barrel and after having carried it daily for years in a saddle scabbard it had worn away a portion of the fore end and even the barrel. He had taken an easy shot at a deer and completely missed; mystified, he shot it at a paper target and found it wouldn't stay on the paper. The lands were worn away, making it almost a smoothbore. He subsequently bought another .32 Special exactly like the original and used that for years until he bought a .270 with which he hunted into his 80s.

I have read where "authorities" badmouth the .32 Special saying it lacks power to even badly injure field mice but Dr Barker's accounts demonstrate that in the right hands it can be and is an all-around rifle. BTW, that's a wonderful book.

[Malamute]

I second giving it a very good cleaning before changing anything.

Im not positive, but I dont think relining the barrel is practical in that power range.

Primers backing out is fairly common with 94s, and generally a sign of low pressure in other calibers. The common methods mentioned to check headspace often dont mention measuring the case rim used for checking, its the baseline to know the actual headspace number, then the shim material added to it to get an accurate number. Cases vary in actual dimensions, the one used must be taken into account to actually know the numbers. Check the figures in the info section, the headspace is a range, not an exact number. The gun can be in spec and still have clearance above the minimum, and certainly above some random case. Just measuring the clearance above some random case used isnt giving actual headspace figures.

This is the 30-30 info, 32 spl isnt shown, but checking online will give the answer of a 30-30 headspace gauge works for 32 spl, Im fairly sure it does.

https://www.leverguns.com/dimensions/images/3030wcf.jpg

[High Desert Hunter]

Thanks Amigo! This rifle has taken deer, elk, lion, and bear in Eastern Oregon.

Dave

[geobru]

I have read where "authorities" badmouth the .32 Special saying it lacks power to even badly injure field mice but Dr Barker's accounts demonstrate that in the right hands it can be and is an all-around rifle. BTW, that's a wonderful book.

Those same authorities will tell you that the 30-30 is unsuitable for anything larger that a coyote!
One of my favorite rifles to shoot is a Model 64 in 32 Special. Very light trigger and is a tack driver with a receiver sight.

As far as the pitted barrel, if it shoots straight, don't change anything. A gun dealer looked at my dad's 1886 40-82 that hadn't been fired since he bought it in about 1029\. The guy told me the barrel was a sewer pipe and probably would never shoot very well. Two years and a ton of experimentation I found the right combination, and my best 5 shot group was 1.26" at 100 yards, using a tang sight.

ALSO, One of the things I learned while trying to make that 86 hum was that lighter loads didn't have enough power to push the casing back against the bolt, and the primers were protruding. I bought a Chrony and increased the smokeless charge I was using to equal the black powder velocity and the problem with protruding primers disappeared. I wonder if that might be what you are experiencing with your 32?

[Griff]

I agree with the others about changing anything... yet. Groups and mechanical soundness should be first. A poor man's way of checking actual headspace is to take a piece of Clevite red plastigage (.002-.006" range) and stick it on the head of a dummy cartridge (case & seated bullet) and chamber. Remove it and compare the compressed strip against the sleeve of the plasti-gage, anywhere between .003-.007" should be fine. I think the blue is .004-.009".

[High Desert Hunter]

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Had some loads that I wanted to chronograph, hadn't been able to get out and shoot in a while, wanted to test out the new target stand too. Shot Grandad's 32, the 173gr FNPB bullets at around 2175ish fps really dimples that AR500 steel, only sitting at 30-35 yards, steel is rated for 338 Lapua since it's 1/2". Only ran 21 rounds through, 3 different loads, the H4895 load shot the best, the CFE223 load was the worst accuracy wise, tops in velocity, the IMR4198 was the lowest velocity, 2nd best in accuracy. Brought it home and hit it with some Kroil and JB's bore paste, talk about some black patches! Shot the Marlin 1894 in 45 Colt, some 45 ACP from a Tisas 1911A1 and my Flattop Blackhawk, finally chronographed the Miha 385gr 480 loads with Longshot, Scott I will message you with those results. It was a good afternoon, much cooler than it has been.

Dave

[High Desert Hunter]

The primers never exceeded .001" protrusion after firing, most were half that.

[piller]

Any field mouse that can make a 32 WS 170 grain bullet bounce off is not a field mouse I want to tangle with. I have shot a 32 WS and it is not weak. OK, it is not a 375 H&H, but not everything needs a 375 H&H to bring it down.

[Bill in Oregon]

Dave, that's great that you are getting that family heirloom running right again.
What part of Eastern Oregon? I have hunted the Malheur country and the Abert Rim escarpment further south, along with waterfowl at Summer Lake. Miss it.

[High Desert Hunter]

Bill, I was born in La Grande, still have a lot of family in Elgin which where most of my fondest childhood memories are from, Mom and Dad live near Walla Walla Washington. One of the nice things about Cloudcroft is it reminds me of home, just with a lot more people.

Dave

[Bill in Oregon]

Always nice to hear from another native Oregonian, Dave. I've spent some time camping at Wallowa Lake and packing in the Eagle Cap Wilderness. Mighty special places.

[High Desert Hunter]

Family used to run cattle up the Minam coming out of the Eagle Cap before it was a wilderness area.

[High Desert Hunter]

SC323-178-RF_PB_AH5_Sketch.jpg

This is the bullet I am casting for the 32 Winchester Special.

Dave

[piller]

Looks as if it would work for anything.

[High Desert Hunter]

Still working on a decent load, so far 2 1/2" at 50 yards is as good as it has done. That was an H4895 load moving at 2200 fps. I will add the sights are not very easy for my aging eyes.

Dave

[geobru]

Dave,
it's been a while since I've shot my M64 32 Special, and I never did develop a load for cast bullets due to time constraints, but I used Speer 170 jacketed bullets over a load of 31 grains of 3031 and shot < 1" groups at 50 yards using a receiver sight.
George

[High Desert Hunter]

Thanks George! I've been unable to find any of the Speer bullets, but I may see if that will work with the Hornady 170gr JFNs I do have. If they are accurate, it at least tells me I need to cast better bullets!

Dave

[geobru]

I tested 30 to 33 grains. You should probably do he same to see which is most accurate in your rifle.

[High Desert Hunter]

Absolutely! Been looking at load data since we got home from Church.

Dave

[High Desert Hunter]

So the jacketed bullets were marginally better. So I think the sights and my eyes are part of the problem, may need to have the barrel crown addressed, and I still have a few loads to try.

Dave

[Malamute]

1927 should still be drilled and tapped on the tang for a tang sight, that may help with your eyes, and not make any permanent changes to the gun.

[FLINT]

I've had success with 32 grains of 3031 and 170 grain jacketed bullets - hornady I think. I could be wrong, but I think jacketed bullets may be more forgiving with a rough bore.

[High Desert Hunter]

So after today's session with jacketed, I thought I'd run my go to copper remover again. Imagine my surprise to discover that I hadn't ever run a copper remover, 7 patches in and they were still a deep blue, did some scrubbing with a nylon brush and a little JB's, needless to say that the bore is actually shining, not dark, still has some pitting, but I am hopeful that maybe my group sizes will shrink just a little.

Dave