Speaking of small bores for medium and larger game

[Bill in Oregon]

I started this thread on another forum, but thought some here might be interested in the implications of the continuing improvement in bullet technology as applied to hunting.

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/ev ... 8921012382

[earlmck]

The first deer I killed I was 11 years old, out hunting rabbits with my Remington single-shot 22. Shot him right behind the shoulder and I think at that time of my life I only got to use 22 shorts. He didn't know I was there, just kinda' looked around and laid down and died.

Anyway, you mess up the boiler room and critters are gonna' die. They may not die real quick and if they are scared or mad they may go quite a distance before they die but they are gonna' die. Now if you have a high sectional density bullet that goes clear through the critter and out the other side they are dead quite a lot quicker I am sure. The heavy 22 cal. bullets available nowdays for the fast-twist 22 centerfires are certainly capable of killing most anything you shoot with them. That said, if I were shooting something that might want to charge and kill me I'd a whole lot prefer the old 45/70 over the new 22 whiz-bang.

[Safestuffer]

Small calibers just do not have the weight and momentum for marginal shots i.e. quartering away. If you hunt in an area that allows you to pick and choose your shots thats fine.
I live in an area where your one and only shot opportunity for the entire season might be 20 yards through brush or 400 yards across a clear-cut. Might be a quartering away shot at 400 yards. A small bore just does not have the juice to cover all scenarios that I might encounter and I hunt to eat

[GunnyMack]

I vaguely remember PO Ackley writing about using various 17s to shoot wild burros and if I remember correctly also camels in AZ .

I'll never forget the first animal I shot with myv17 Remington, a cotton tail at 50 yard berm. Upon impact it flew about 6' in the air, skinned from skull to ankles to rib cage.

[Ray]

There are other factors involved that greatly muddle the issue.....

Very frangible varmint bullets of medium (not the lightest avail.) weight at slower than optimal velocities perform quite well on larger animals. How is less more ?

Think a 6.5 jdj with the 120gr. speer leaving at 2400 fps. The inimitable, late mister taffin had a room in his home only with trophies taken with the 6.5 jdj that was as large as the whole 5 rooms we lived in at the time.

Goerg & Dalrymple both used the .221 fireball to good effect claiming that 50 gr. soft points killed better at 2400 fps. than the .22-250 at 3000+. Obviously science demands that the faster bullet has to soon slow to that supposedly ideal velocity range.

Goerg also killed great beasts with the then new .256 win. ruger single-shot built on the single-action frame......A tiny 60 gr. bullet.

j.d. jones once wrote that the 125 gr. .308" nosler ballistic tips & the speer tnt striking at 1900 to 2400 fps killed kudu on a culling operation better than anything that he had ever used......and he had previously used many more powerful cartridges. Those 125 gr. bullets are mere groundhog bullets at 500 fps. faster speeds.

When I was still on the right side of 30, I took many deer with the 60 gr. hornady & the 64 gr. win. at 2900 fps. from a .223 contender. The same 125 gr. speer tnt that mister jones touted failed egregiously at 2900 fps. from a 30-06 starting load charge weight from my n.e.f. handi. Would it have been adequate at the 500 fps slower speed (or longer range) ?

[Lastmohecken]

I have no doubt that a .22 and especially a .223 won't kill about anything at least in the lower 48 in a pinch, but I still think it a poor choice, and limits one's opportunities at best. Sure, an old timer who is cool headed and waits for the perfect shot, can kill their game with a tiny round. I would rather be in Elmer Keith's camp, even if huge improvements make the modern small bores a viable alternative. I want bullet weight, and caliber diameter working in my favor, instead of relying on trick bullets out of the poodle shooters.