For Fellow 444 Marlin Fans

[AJMD429]

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Ever since I saw the cartridges listed in the Remington ammunition flyer back in 1973 or so, it just seemed like the 444 Marlin was calling to me as a must have someday. It took a while, but eventually, I became the owner of a Marlin blued version and a stainless Marlin XLR.

I prefer to use the 45–70 with vintage loads and appreciate it for what it is, and use the 444 Marlin with more modern factory loads. Part of that is because of the necessary large openings required and the receiver and chamber when 45–70 is chambered in the Marlin. The 444 seems to be a little bit better in terms of margin of safety because of that.

If I want something really large diameter with a flat meplat and tons of energy, I will use a lever gun chambered in 500 Smith & Wesson anyway.

This guy is a fellow 444 fan…

https://youtu.be/rf60PnKKQKk

[Bill in Oregon]

The .444 is a fine cartridge. It did suffer from the early 240-grain load being likened to one of the old British express cartridges that sacrificed penetration for velocity. The 1:38 twist rate Marlin used in the beginning didn't help either. They changed to 1:20 sometime around 1998-99, which made a lot more sense for those wishing to go to 300-grain bullets and beyond. I briefly owned a .444 in a Ruger No. 1 and was surprised by the recoil.
Friend Pete Thorniley took his .444 Marlin to Africa with heavy cast bullets and a custom powder blend and hammered everything he shot.

[6pt-sika]

I’ve killed a pile of deer using the 45-70 , 450 Marlin and 444 Marlin and have no qualms with any of the three . In the 450 I only used jacketed bullets both factory and handloads . And as you would assume they did a very adequate job . In the 45-70 and 444 I used factory and handloads in both . My handloads for those two were both jacketed and self cast bullets . Without a doubt they all got the job done but in both cartridges for me atleast the bullets I cast seemed to have jerked the carpet out from under the deer a good bit better than the jacketed . In the 45-70 I used cast bullets up to 550 grains and in the 444 up to 450 grains , lemme just say it’s a bit easier dealing with overweight bullets in the 45-70 than in the 444 . But in both instances it can be done . Over the course of ten or so years I used three rifles chambered for the 450 Marlin , I think ten or twelve chambered for the 45-70 and thirty chambered for the 444 including a Contender with a 12” barrel and a Ruger #3 that started life as a 44 MAG and someone ran the chamber out before I acquired it . By far I out more effort in the 444 but while I enjoyed it I’m glad I got that out of my system .

[mickbr]

Fellas how to you rate recoil and blast from a 444 rifle. Like a stout 30-06? 300 win? Or different altogether.?

[tray]

There's only two kind of people. 444 shooters and those that wish they were.

[piller]

If the 444 would come around again with a bit more engineering put into twist rate and heavier bullets, it would be likely to gain more followers. LBT style bullets in LFN variety should be absolutely perfect to shop bears out of a 444 if they were close to 385 to 400 grains and around 2,000 fps max. Weirdly enough, a controlled expansion Long LBT style with an exposed lead nose is my wish for big game.

[AJMD429]

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"...Fellas how to you rate recoil and blast from a 444 rifle. Like a stout 30-06? 300 win? Or different altogether...?"

I'm not particularly stout or recoil-proof, but I just don't really feel much recoil from my 444 Marlin 336/long action; seems about the same as my 44 Magnum 1894/short action (in fact maybe the little 1894 carbine is a bit rougher). The only 30-06's I've shot are a Springfield 03 and a Garand, and both are heavy guns that probably absorb much of the recoil, but they seem similar to the 444, or maybe a bit more in recoil, actually. At the 'high end', I have a 375 Ruger (sort of an 'Ackleyized' 375 H&H) Hawkeye Alaskan and a BHA 89 levergun in 500 S&W, and those are a bit more noticeable in recoil than the 444 Marlin, similar to an M1A Scout rifle to me.

Now I really DREAD shooting my breakopen Ithaca 66 shotgun with slugs, so I do feel recoil for sure.

I'm kinda skinny (unless I put the buttstock on my belly) so not much shoulder padding, so much of perceived recoil for me depends on if I'm wearing a jacket or something else.

I've always wanted to shoot a 458 Lott or something like that just to see how it would compare to say the 375 Ruger, but when I see videos of people shooting the Lott or even the 458 Win, it just looks downright painful; videos of folks shooting 375 H&H or Ruger don't seem like they are particularly bounced back by the recoil.

[AJMD429]

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I was interested to see the comparison with the 350 Legend as to how 'flat shooting' they were, and that if both were sighted in at 2" high at 100 yards, that at 250 yards, the 444 Dropped 10.8" vs 12.2" for the Legend, and at 200 yards, which would be my idea of a 'point blank range', the 444 only dropped 3.5" versus 4.2" for the Legend. I think a 6-inch diameter threshold for whitetail hunting is a good one, and if I can get a 200 yard point-blank range peaking 2" at 100 yards and dropping 3.5" at 200 yards, that's about perfect - aim 'dead-on' all the way out to 200 yards, which is as far as I'd want to shoot anyway. If unsure how far the deer is (in which case I'd likely not take the shot, actually), and it is just 'out there' maybe 175, maybe 225 yards, I know I could aim about 6" high, and worst case scenario I'd be 2.5" high if it's only 175 yards out, but could be up to around 4" low if it were 225 yards (and only 4.8" low if it is actually all the way out at 250 yards). ALL those should be lethal shots if I'm aiming for a heart-shot.

He does a similar comparison with the 45-70, but only using 'vintage' loads, so I'm sure most 45-70 aficionados are using 'modern' loads and would kind of scoff at his comparisons between 444 Marlin and 45-70 Govt. I'm pretty sure the deer wouldn't notice the difference, and I'm betting the 45-70 'modern' load trajectory would be close to (but likely not flatter than) the 444 Marlin's.

But versus the now-popular 350 Legend, the only advantage I can see for the Legend would be less recoil (but the 444 doesn't seem that bothersome to me - maybe because my gun has a nicely engineered stock, is relatively heavy, and I'm usually hunting in cold weather so have a coat on). Maybe the other would be less powder and bullet weight, so probably about half the cost to reload for the Legend - but for a deer-hunting cartridge, I'd figure at most 100 rounds or so to figure out what load your rifle likes, at most another 20 for final sight-in, and maybe another 20 per year confirming sight-in, practicing, and actually hunting. It isn't like you're gonna trap-shoot or run combat pistol courses with your 444 Marlin or 350 Legend, so the low-volume involved really doesn't seem like it gives much pressure to reduce powder and bullet costs.

Not sure about the 'brush-bucking' claims of the big fat bullets - I've seen YouTubers 'confirm' and 'refute' those claims, but regardless of that, I like the bigger bleed-holes a through-and-through thorax shot provides, and the larger meplat, with the 444 Marlin.

Additionally, even when I had some loads using 'pistol bullets' of 240 grains, that are supposed to "just blow up in the skin and produce non-lethal wounds that are inhumane", or "explode like shrapnel and ruin all the meat", I've shot those bullets out of the 444 Marlin THROUGH soft-steel 5/16" targets normally used for 22 LR or 9mm pistol, and the hole is as crisp and neat as a paper-punch - hardly indicating the bullet is THAT flimsy. When they hit a whitetail with a thorax shot they go clear through, and at most 'waste' a 1-1/2" circle of ribs on entry, and maybe a 3" or so circle of ribs on exit, just like most any other projectile. Sure - hit a shoulder blade, and you'll have "bone-in" front leg meat, but it's not bullet-fragments as much as bone - again, just like most any other projectile if it hits bone.

I need to see how accurate my XLR Marlin is off the bench sometime - all I know is that although I'd not tote it out west for long-range hunting, it is a real meat-maker in the midwest whitetail environment.

[AJMD429]

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The same guy did a follow up video…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YoMQLv3qFA

[JBowen]

Thanks for sharing the links to those videos. Quite informative. I am a big fan of the .444 Marlin. I have a Winchester Big Bore 94 .444 that is very accurate. I have only
taken one deer with it and it was a one shot drop in its track affair, with the 265 FP Hornady over Re7. The gun will put 2 shots touching at 50 yds using a scope.

JBowen