Winchester/Miroku 45 Colt - Load Advice Please?

[Marcruger]

Hi Folks,

I need some advice from anyone with direct Miroku/Winchester 45 Colt experience, either '92, 1873, etc. Recently produced rifle.

I thought SAA Colt 45 handloads might work reasonably well in 1873. Looking for a fun plinking load at around 50 yards. Not grizzly bear hunting load. The SAA load was not even CLOSE to good in the rifle.

Usual 45 Colt load, 255 grain .452" MO Bullets (Hi Tek coated, 12 hardness), 5.6 grains TiteGroup, WLPP, Winchester or Starline brass, profile crimp. 740 fps from Colt revolver, 940 from rifle. ES and SD numbers are good in SAA, excellent in rifle.

Shoots 2" at 20 yards from SAA rested.

Tried it in the Miroku 1873 at 50 yards. 18", ten shot group. Closed up to 25 yards and it grouped about a 2" horizontal string, with three of 10 shots scattered way up and left about 9". Nuts.

The Miroku has peep sight, which I enjoy on lever guns. Not the monkey on the crank either. I can shoot from the bench with a .243 Remington in .3" to .4" five shots at 100 yards. Again, the SAA will shoot smaller groups than the Winchester/Miroku 1873 on same day. Not desired accuracy from a rifle clearly!

I ordered .454 bullets and expander as I read some Mirokus have a larger bore. Loaded these .454s, otherwise, same load.

No dice. At 25 yards got a scattered 4"+ group from the Miroku. At least the .452 tried to group, but with 30% crazy flyers. The .454s just spread shots with no notable attempt at grouping. The .454s work great in the SAA loads for the revolver BTW.

I read online a few folks saying their Miroku .45 Colt shoots small groups. What gives?

Has anyone successfully loaded for a Miroku 45 Colt barrel? Really seeking direct experience. Loads for Marlins, Uberti's and Rossi's don't really help here.

Oh yes, the crown looks great close up.

Many thanks in advance for any helpful advice.

Best wishes and God Bless, Marc

[Scott Tschirhart]

I’ve found that these guns need to be pushed a little harder than the load you quoted. But I haven’t needed to go outside of the .45 Colt loads that I also use in my SAA.

Try stepping up to 8-8.5 gr of Unique with a 255 gr bullet.

[JBowen]

Welcome to board, Marc!

While I have different brands of firearms than yours,
I have never found a load that both the revolver and
rifle agreed on the same loads.
It’s fun trying though!

JBowen

[GunnyMack]

Crown is one thing. 2 piece stocked guns are finicky as to how they shoot from a rest. That being said, hold it on the rest exactly as your would shoot it off hand.
Look at the forend cap, is it slammed tight to the barrel? A few file strokes to relieve it can't hurt.
As Scott mentioned add some speed to your rifle loads. Your short barrel load is faster but there is more drag in a long barrel and a pistol load just won't get it down to bore during the recoil impulse and prove to be accurate.
Look to different powders, we know each is an individual and what works for you might not be a good one in mine.
Did you notice any leading?
Try some jacketed .

Being a new bore, did you clean it before shooting it? Did you notice anything off?
Just because it's a new barrel they don't all shoot great from the factory, machine marks, leade angles, small/oversize spots in the bore.
Heck I have a rifle I built that has taken me 30 years of off and on tinkering to get under 1" at 100.
Keep shooting it, pay attention to your mechanics and don't get frustrated.

[44shooter]

I think something is wrong with the rifle. Slow loads should still group better than 18 inches at 50 yards. CAS participants use slow loads all the time, granted they are closer and shoot big targets most of the time.

Is the rifle brand new? Is there a possibility of a bulged barrel? Do either of the sights wiggle? Is anything loose or in a bind in the forearm and mag tube area? Check everything, screws are the easiest but don’t over tighten. Check the sights first.

Have you done any offhand shooting? Or try to rest the rifle at the front of the action or just put your hand between the forearm and rest.

[RIHMFIRE]

every gun is going to have its favorite load...
you are going to have to experiment with different loads
Starting light and increasing it gradually
Slug your barrel!
heavy trigger?
barrel harmonics.....vertical stringing
head space
barrel crown
check all the fasteners
could be a lot of things

[Scott Tschirhart]

I agree that you are experiencing some unusually large groups. You may not even consider them to be “groups” at this point.

I have several of these guns and I have not seen any sort of problem making them shoot.

So I’m very interested in how you might make progress.

[guntar]

I have had very good luck with my Miroku M92 in the accuracy department. It is one of the most accurate lever actions I own. I have to agree with Mr. Tschirhart that mine tends to shoot better when it is pushed harder.
My plinking load is a Lazercast 240 gr. RNFP pushed by 5.5 gr. of Trail Boss. Out to 50 yds. the group size is limited by my aged eyes but runs about 2 to 3" for 5 shots. My heavy load is a Hornady 250 gr. XTP pushed by 16.5 gr. of 2400 which cuts the group size in half. I have not pushed that bullet any faster because I also shoot a Colt SA and do not want to have any shells that might inadvertently get put in the Colt.
My M92 has a 24" octagonal barrel and yields the following velocities with the loads mentioned:

5.5 gr. TB with 250 RNFP - 907 fps

16.5 gr. 2400 with 250 gr. XTP - 1640 fps

Those velocities compared to a Winchester factory load 250 gr. LFP at 1022 fps and a 250 gr. JHP at 1133 (didn't note the brand )..

The XTP load does a great job on hogs. On hogs in the 100 to 200# range had complete penetration with obvious bullet expansion (no bullets recovered) but with a small sample size of three (2 sows and 1 boar).

[Griff]

The only Miroku I have in 45 Colt is a LoWall. My favorite load for is a 6 grains of RedDot. Behind a 200 gr RFN it runs to 1,077fps, dropping to a 5.5 grain load behind a 225 gr truncated cone it drops to high 700s & low 800s, but ES goes up. My other 45 Colt rifles are a Marlin, a Rossi & 3 Ubertis. Mostly used in cowboy action shooting, except for the Rossi. Which I've wanted to use for hogs, but the opportunity hasn't come up. It'll do about 3" @ 50 yards, opening up to about 4" at 100, less as my eyesight goes away. All of my 45 Colt rifles have generous chambers, so I prefer my loads in the upper half of SAAMI pressure limits for the round, to aid sealing the chamber, with lower pressure loads, ES & SD numbers increase do to lack of chamber sealing. Not to mention dirty brass. I've used Clays, Titegroup, Unique, 231 & RedDot in my experimenting with the 45 Colt in rifles... RedDot seems to be the best all-around powder. YMMV.