1892 25-20 take down carbine

[GunnyMack]

I finally got up the nerve to ask my neighbor if I could take this 92 off his wall so I could clean it and take it for a test drive. He agreed so here it is.
I dont know if it's factory checkered? No saddle ring and as far as I can tell it's un-bubba'd! Althoughthe rear site looks odd.

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[Eddie Southgate]

Your pictures are not loading.

[GunnyMack]

I see that, the site was very slow when I made the post.
I'll try again

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[Oldncrusty]

Awesome. Love seeing antiques given a new lease on life. Currently waiting on my first year 92 to come out of the shop. My only 25-20 so far is a Savage 29b.

[GunnyMack]

I have a Savage 23B, I also made a mini Farquenson in 25-20 but the sear broke not long after I finished the gun and there are no parts available. I might get around to making a sear someday.

This gun looks good on the outside, the bore is another story! I'll know better later, 5 different loads with different bullets to test today.

[GunnyMack]

Well, after giving the barrel a good scrubbing last night and looking at the road kill alligator skin lands & grooves I didn't have a lot of hope. But as we all know, looks can be deceiving!
I tested 4 or 5 different cast bullets, a couple different powders. I'm going to revisit H322 and the 5 different cast bullets .

I shoot at cardboard, using 1¹/²" peices of duct tape, im too cheap to buy bullseyes!

Anyhow, these were shot at 25y off bags just trying to print groups.

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[Pat C]

Barrel may be cut but it does have short forend usually on short rifles. Looks like it was an original deluxe takedown at one time.

[GunnyMack]

If it was cut, whoever did it cut it at 16¹/⁴" to meet recent legality rules.
I plan to send for a letter, im curious to see how it left the factory.
It also has this butt ,ala Neider style.

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Also, the muzzle measures .745 so it's quite a heavy barrel.
A quick serial number search dates it around 1910.

[Pat C]

The .745 dimension tells me someone cut it. Heavy barrels were not an option that I've seen or read about in 1892.
That buttplate is the hard rubber deluxe with Widows peak.

Im betting it was an original short rifle that's been shortened further due to damage .

[GunnyMack]

It's anybody's guess that's for sure.
I did a little looking on the Cody firearms site, this serial number most likely doesn't have factory records for it. I'm not all that enthusiastic about spending 150 bucks to try and find out more.

[Pat C]

It's definatly an original deluxe short rifle but Im fairly certain barrel and tube were cut again. Close up of muzzle and front sight may help

The checkering is what Winchester called (I) style

[OldWin]

Either way, it's a neat little rifle Gunny.
Do you think you can get it away from the owner? Are you going to try?

[GunnyMack]

I'll post muzzle pics later, I'm quite certain it's been cut.

Yes Jay it's as good as mine, just have to agree on a price. Then I might hit him up on his 92 in 38wcf.

[OldWin]

Hope you get it Gunny.
I'd surely try for that 38 too. It's far and away my favorite of the short cartridges. I've always had an easy time getting good results from it. Across all my rifles and carbines.

[marlinman93]

Not a carbine, but actually a Short Rifle, and pretty neat variation.

[Pat C]

Takedowns in the 1892 are pretty rare , my guess in 25-20 even rarer. I saw one in as new condition at an old gunshop.
Owner wanted $1250 which looking back I should have bought it.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I love me some takedown short rifle with a heavy barrel. There's just something about how they swing onto the target.

[GunnyMack]

I've always been a fan of the 38wcf , first time I ever shot one was as a kid- the guy had a near mint Colt Lightning that was a hoot to shoot!
I've been looking around online for 92 take down models, not a ton of them . I'd bet the 25-20 models are quite rare.

[OldWin]

I have just one 92 takedown. It's in 38wcf (of course), and has a perfect bore. It's a fantastic shooter.

The 1889 Marlin is a 38 too.

[GunnyMack]

Nice stock on that 92! I'm a sucker for fancy wood

[OldWin]

Yeah. They put a little better wood in the ordered rifles.
I've posted pics of this 92 before. It's the one with the stock plaque.

[GunnyMack]

Ah yes, I remember that. Adds a bit of mystery and nostalgia to it. Did you ever figure out who they were?

[OldWin]

No, I never did. I have a factory letter, and while it mentions a factory return, it doesn't state why. Maybe someday I will find out, but I don't hold out much hope.

[GunnyMack]

Yeah Jay, if only they could talk...

The muzzle

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[hfcable]

that rear sight is the Charles Daniels ghost ring sight. it could be ordered on early special order winchesters or added on afteermarket. it is pretty useful and is pretty valuable in itself. ii have one on a remington model 25 pump in 32/20

[Pat C]

Definatly cut , somewhat rough chamfer to crown but the giveaway is the steady rest wear on the area in front of sight.
That is a rare gun I'd be on the lookout for an original uncut barrel . But until then just shoot it.

[GunnyMack]

Thanks for the input. I hadn't thought about the ring as a steady rest, the owner has kept his Winchesters hanging on his wall for many years, figured it was just brass plating wearing off those hooks. I'll look closer at that.

I'm not sure if I'll start looking for a replacement barrel, it's awful handy this size.

The accuracy is probably still there with the right load, but I was possibly thinking of relining maybe...

[Bill in Oregon]

Will, I hope you find a load it really loves. Such a neat little 92 in a most user-friendly chambering.

[Pat C]

The finish wear appears all the way around with concentric scratches. Consistant with steady rest use. My guess barrel was left on frame .

[Griff]

A fellow club member offered me a TD mdl 1892 rifle in .32WCF with full octagon bbl and mag. But, SWMBO, laid down the law and made me given up the notion of owning such a gem. It's no longer a burning itch, as I have neither ammo, components or dies to load for the cartridge... otherwise, I probably wouldn't be able to resist the several temptations I've had since.

[GunnyMack]

I do believe you are correct Pat.

Griff that 32 would have been very tempting!

[GunnyMack]

I just went down to the basement, installed 10 GC's for testing on my old NEI 65gr bullets. I also looked closer at the muzzle, yes the rings go all the way around. I scrubbed with some 0000 and oil, the marks didn't off.

[GunnyMack]

So I cleaned the basement today, rearranged some of my reloading setup. Decided to load a ladder test of 85 gr cast with 2400, 6.4-6.6-6.8-7.0 for testing. The gun kind of liked the 6.3 starting load.
Also spent some time trying to find a commercial caster that has something besides 85gr bullets. I'm looking for a 70+/- GC to try. Arsenal has a mould but I don't want to buy a mould just to try.

[GunnyMack]

Was just going thru past issues of Hand Loader, looking for 25-20 data, ran across an ad for Duck Creek sporting goods.com. I gave them a look and they had 25-20 brass, formed from Starline for $49.99/100. They had 1 bag in stock and now it's on its way to me!
I've got a fair supply on hand but being it's all 30+ years old , cracks, splits are inevitable. I annealed 50 the other day, apparently I got some too soft and crumpled a few yesterday. Man that hurts!

Duck Creek also had some other oddball calibers in stock , 220 Russian - I've never even seen anything chambered for the Russian. Brass, bullets, loaded ammo, reloading stuff too.

[earlmck]

I have neither ammo, components or dies to load for the cartridge... otherwise, I probably wouldn't be able to resist the several temptations I've had since.

But Griff -- 32WCF brass and dies are readily available these days. Not exotic at all. Graf's at this moment has 4 brands of dies and 2 styles of Starline brass.

[2ndovc]

Big time cool, Gunny!

I have a few '92s but I've been chasing a 25-20 for years w/ a decent bore.
I do have a Martini Cadet rifle that was a mess until I had a local gun smith work it over and
install a 25WCF barrel. A parker Hale tang sight that I had in my parts drawer and it is
an absolute tack driver.
My grandfather was a fanatic about the 1/4 bores and he would spend hours and hours in his basement making
bullets. I have a couple thousand of them left.
I also have his Model 70 in .250-3000 and a custom Arisaka that he had made into a .257 Roberts.
Both of them will shoot sub 1" at 100 yds.

Have fun!

jb

[Griff]

I have neither ammo, components or dies to load for the cartridge... otherwise, I probably wouldn't be able to resist the several temptations I've had since.

But Griff -- 32WCF brass and dies are readily available these days. Not exotic at all. Graf's at this moment has 4 brands of dies and 2 styles of Starline brass.

But, without a rifle to justify it, I find it hard to jump in whole hog & set up. Unlike when I bought the AWA Lightning in .44-40, I generally already have dies, brass & components when I buy a new firearm. As I mentioned in another thread, I started out with 3 sets of dies, .30-30, 44RemMag & 7RemMag. Well, I had 2 rifles, a .30-30 & a 44Mag. Took me 6 years, but I finally bought that 7mmRemMag rifle. I bought or was gifted dies, ammo & components long before I bought the HiWall in .32-40.

[GunnyMack]

Jason, I think you posted pics of your Martini, certainly a cool little rifle!
This doesn't have a mint bore but so far it shoots pretty good. Of course the jerk behind the trigger could use more trigger time , less slapping more squeezing! ( old trap shooters don't squeeze!)
I've been doing quite a bit of reading about the 25-20, a guy on the Marlin site ( I found it via link on cast boolits) has done lots of testing, different powders not normally associated with the cartridge.
Of course the old powders , both 4198s 2400 can't be found! 1680 is a good choice, both 4227s as well. I've tried Lil gun.
I'd like to try and get an idea of CFE BLACK usage. He has Herco loads and 5744 data.

[Pat C]

This rifle is the bones of an original short rifle. Very very rare.
Takedown in itself only 1500-1600 made. 25-20 even rarer.

There are two options.

Find correct full length barrel have it shortened to match letter.
You'll cut one inch from breach to match short forend.

Re thread, chamber. Front cut sight dovetail, radial magtube dovetail.

Option 2. Have that barrel stretched back to correct length.
Weld donor front on and line it. Easiest option.

Stretch takedown tube same way by grafting.

[GunnyMack]

Maybe down the road...