Experiments With a Raven .25 ACP

[JimT]

The article from 1979 that Ray found on my experiments with the .25 ACP was a good trip down Memory Lane!

I used a Raven .25 ACP  -

Raven_25.JPG

I am not sure why I was messing with a Raven.  Probably the price had something to do with it because you could find them easily for less than $50 almost any place in those days.  I tried different ammo it. I tried the Winchester factory rounds that had a lead bullet hollow point with BB in the hollow point so they would feed. I fired them against a concrete block and they would not expand.  I pulled the BB out of the nose, opened up the hollow point a bit and loaded them single shot. I shot some rabbits with them. They worked OK but were more trouble than a .22 Long Rifle and in reality, the .22 was better on rabbits.

Then I started experimenting with a cast 48 gr. truncated cone flat point. My Dad made the bullet mold for me.  It is long gone, I have no clue where or when.

1.7 gr. Unique  Winchester Small Pistol priners - 976 fps
2.0 gr. Unique  Winchester Small Pistol primers - 1061 fps
2.0 gr. Unique  Federal #200 Small Rifle primers - 1090 fps  (brass is ruined at each shot - the entire primer pocket is blown out) I added the velocity here. In the article I said "... near 1100 fps.." and I think I remember a bit over 1090. It's been long enough that I am not sure. They were hot!

Pressures obviously were quite high but they never seemed to hurt the cheap little Raven. I shot it a lot and when I sold it or traded it or gave it away it was still working just fine.

I remembered doing that and the fired cases with no primer pocket.  BUT I thought I was loading Bullseye.  Not sure why I was using Unique.  However with the little bitty short barrel, that's fair velocity.  I never did figure out where the primer and the pocket went. I am sure they were blown out during ejection since it is a blow-back gun, but I was never hit by anything and I never discovered where they went.  I figured they probably had been blown back with the slide and maybe bounced or were thrown forward when the slide stopped and started returning. ???

Anyway .. it was fun stuff and it was fun reading about it after all those years.

Thanks Ray.

[Ray]

"I have at times carried a .25 acp. It is not always possible to hide a larger gun on your person and the .25 is definitely better than a rock ! I don't have much use for the factory ammo. I tried what's available including the Winchester stuff that is a lead bullet with a BB in the hollow-point nose so that they will feed. I couldn't get it to expand when I fired it against a concrete block ! I pulled the BB out of the nose and slightly enlarged the cavity and used them to good measure on cottontails. For larger game I would be wary. My Dad made a bullet mould that casts a nice little 48 gr. flatnose. The nose flat is about .18 caliber and the bullet is truncated-cone shape. IN MY GUN I have run it to nearly 1100 fps ! THESE LOADS MAY BLOW YOUR GUN SKY--HIGH ! I'm only telling you what I have done in MINE ! I AM NOT RECOMMENDING IT FOR YOU ! My basic carrying load is the 48 gr. bullet over 1.7 gr. Unique and wsp primers. This load gives 976 fps out of my little thing. The same bullet and primers with 2.0 gr. Unique gives 1061 fps and a whacking 119 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy ! The same load but using Federal #209 small rifle primers will give nearly 1190 fps and 126 ft. lbs. --- BUT YOU START WRECKING THE BRASS ! Pressures are way over what are recommended for this round I have shot a number through my gun without damage, but YOU NEVER KNOW FOR SURE ! I feel that my gun is safe with 970 + fps load and use it but I don't shoot it much. If I have a choice, I will carry a larger caliber such as the .38 derringer. I saw a deer with a broken spine shot in the head with factory-velocity .25 acp loads. --- four shots and it was still alive, though bleeding from the nose and mouth. It is just areal puny load though it is true that anyone shot with it will need surgery. However, I would like my shots to be stoppers, not just wounders. A well shaped bullet in the .25 at over 900 fps is going to be more effective than roundnosed factory ammo, though by how much I don't know. It is not the ideal, though sometimes you just have no choice."

[Ray]

The above quote is an excerpt from the article cited.....

Modern tests from lucky gunner folk.....

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/pocket ... t-results/

IMG_20250723_031234.jpg

IMG_20250723_031522.jpg

[JimT]

who ran a trap line for many years and who wanted something handy and cheap to do head shots to kill critters without doing significant damage to the hide. He tried several guns and loads. nothing worked great. He had a tip-up barrel Beretta 25 ACP but, on most critters, the factory 50-grain JRN load tended to just bounce off the skull and rip a long hole through the hide and managed thereby to only rile them up all the more and when that critter happened to be a wolverine it was not handy. So, he handloaded with enough RedDot to get 1000 fps. That combination worked 100% of the time. It punched through the skull, make a tiny hole in the hide, and killed instantly. He used it hundreds of times and sold it along with his traps to a friend when he left Alaska. Last he knew, the guy was still using the same load and gun and it was still like new.

EDIT: I don't trust Jello shots. I prefer real world experience with stuff the breathes, bleeds and fights back.

[Bill in Oregon]

I wonder if a Jennings could have handled that load.

[JimT]

I wonder if a Jennings could have handled that load.

I am not sure.
The only 25's I ever had were the Raven and a Beretta. The last was a much nicer firearm than the first.

[AJMD429]

,
Encore rifle barrels were available at one time in 25 ACP; I always wondered what a rifle-pressure load could do with that tiny little cartridge...

(...but not enough to spend the time or money or find out the hard way the brass case might disintegrate...)

[Ysabel Kid]

Interesting. I had one of those little guns before the horrendous boating accident. Never thought of stoking it though - just does not look well made!