I really dislike striker-fired handguns....

[AJMD429]

....and yes, I know they usually work ok, and that even exposed-hammer guns can misfire, but overall, I like to SEE what is going on, and be in CONTROL of it, as with a 1911, or a Taurus 92, where you can SEE the hammer, and it is either NOT under spring tension, or if it is, you have some definitive locks to prevent hammer-fall. A 'striker' is just too invisible for me to trust, because like ANY mechanical thing, it can malfunction.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ol ... g-with-dad

[Twodot]

that incident wasn't the guns fault.
..

[wecsoger]

Technically a Glock is not a true striker-fired semi-auto, but I've tired of arguing the difference.

More to this particular story than what's being told.

It is possible in theory for a Glock to fire without pulling the trigger.

It's in the same category as me running a six minute mile (green suit days I could eights and nines, but that was twenty plus years ago)

I'm pretty familiar with the innards of these critters - used and owned since '86

Unless the trigger bar is pushed in, the trigger will /not/ go back

Unless the trigger is pulled and pushes up the firing pin safety (plunger) it is physically impossible for the firing pin to forward

Until proven otherwise to me, they were wrestling, gun fell, someone tried to catch/grab it and the trigger got pulled

Sorry somebody is dead, but there are some things you should /not/ be doing when carrying

[Blaine]

Doc, I know that you have said that the best safety in between your ears. Need I expound on that?

[COSteve]

Done

[rossim92]

yep. you have to, or something else, has to pull the trigger to make gun go boom. I trust my glock better then any other handguns i own against accidental firing. Just my 2 cents worth.

[elmo123]

The way the Glock and all of the other striker fired pistols are designed it shouldn't have discharged without the trigger being pulled. The strikers is only half cocked prior to puling the trigger.
There is a striker/firing pin block in the slide that is depressed when you pull the trigger. This prevents the pistol from firing when it is dropped.

It's hard to say what happened without examining the pistol but I feel sorry for the family to have lost someone so young.

[AJMD429]

So, by your logic, you don't trust the human heart to do it's job long term because you can't see it, right? Same with the digestive track, nervous system, brain, spinal cord, muscles, ligaments, lymphatic and endocrine systems, reproductive system, etc., etc. are all not optimal because they are hidden from view, right...?

Well, yeah...! All them innards are just waiting to malfunction....that's my job security....!

I do agree with the fact that the gun shouldn't have been able to discharge, since normally the spring is only 'partly' compressed. Likely either the gun had been modified (bad!) or maybe broken internally or messed up during reassembly (did that with a 1911 once), or was 'grabbed' as it fell...

Most importantly...

Sorry somebody is dead, but there are some things you should /not/ be doing when carrying...

[JimT]

"FECAL MATTER OCCURS"

Often when we have gotten so used to doing something without any problems that we go into condition White and are not paying attention.
Rather than blaming an inanimate object (which things can malfunction) I try to watch myself (who does malfunction).

Here's a rather sobering look at accidental/negligent discharges ... the individual stories are sometimes horrible. Though I did like the one where the guys dog shot him.

https://www.concealedcarry.com/safety/3 ... oth-wrong/

[marlinman93]

Can't say I'm find of striker type handguns either for a carry gun. Not that I feel they're unsafe; I just like exposed hammers. I don't care for plastic frames and grips either, but that too is just my personal preference for real metal and wood.
But even internal hammer guns aren't particularly what I like either, unless it's for target shooting. I love my old High Standard handguns for bullseye matches, and don't care if they're internal hammers, or earlier external hammer guns.

[piller]

Accidents can and do happen. The outcomes can be heartbreaking. It seems to me that in the accident being used here to show why you dislike certain designs, yes it was negligence. I could be incorrect, but it doesn't seem as if the Glock actually failed. I am thinking that it was human error. A very sad human error.

I am not a fan of Glock pistols as I don't like the feel of the square-ish grip. As far as the rest of the gun, I have one and it has been no trouble so far. If my dislike of the feel of the grip is my only issue, then it is not much of a problem.

[piller]

When my Dad was in the Air Force back in the early 50s, at the base in Geibelstadt, Germany an Air Force Policeman was killed by his 1911 while it was cocked and locked. The AP came in to the Duty Sergeants room and said something, then threw his 1911 butt first at the desk. HARD! It caught the edge of the desk just right for the firing pin to bounce forward and set off the loaded round in the chamber. The AP was struck in the forehead and he died instantly. It was a wood desk, and the pistol was still stuck to the desk when the clerk from outside came rushing in to find out what happened. The subsequent investigation found that the pistol was still cocked and the safety was still engaged. There was an empty piece of brass in the chamber and the recovered bullet was a match for that pistol's rifling. The only prints on the gun belonged to the AP. Yes, it was a freak accident that probably could not happen again. IT DID HAPPEN. No firearm is completely immune to accidents.

[Bill in Oregon]

I prefer a 1911, but find both the Glocks and Springfield XDs to have their uses. Things I like about the XD are the Browning-esque grip safety, the tactile cocking indicator at the rear of the slide and the loaded round indicator.
I'm sure the XD safety system could be defeated -- anything man-made can be -- but I think it is an inherently safer design than the Glock.

[Deaf Smith]

Been packing a Glock since CHL first started here in Texas (yea... I have a real low serial number on my CHL/LTC!)

Now I grew up on Colt 'O' and S&W 'K' frame hoglegs... I was a Jeff Cooper and Bill Jordan man (yes I hip shoot and use two hands.. I use sighted fire and point shooting... and I'm so fast I go back in time (and I can bend bullets to.)

Now I do have a 1911, Kimber Stainless Classic, I use as my 'Sunday Go-To-Meeting' gun. Accurate as a rifle that gun is. And I do have a S&W 640 Centennial (my first CCW gun, custom red insert front sight and Eagle Secret Service stocks) I use as my 'jogging cloths' gun.

But, the main gun is the Glock 26 with Heinie Straight Eight sights, Ny-1 and 3.5 lb connector, and Bowen 'tactical' grip reduction. Got it at a pawn shop done that way (except the NY-1 trigger) for $400 about 15 years ago. I can do head shots with that gun at 20 yards!

And I used a Glock 17 for many many years in IDPA, and before that a P-35 High Power in IPSC. I have lots of trophies! I prize reliability.

Oh, and my hiking gun is Ruger 3 inch GP-100 .357 (and some times Security Six .357.) My pretty S&W revolvers sleep in the safe with the exception of my S&W 629-1 4 inch .44 you see in my avatar!

So don't knock the Glock... It's an outstanding tool.

[jdad]

You guys have forgotten about the Sig 320 "voluntary" recall. You can see the videos online of the "drop it just right and it goes boom" video. I tried it with mine (unlooaded) before sending it back and I heard the click of the striker. I have no problems carrying a light weight, striker fired, pistol, in the correct holster.

[OldWin]

I have no issue with striker fired pistols (I own 2 Glocks). I'm mostly a 1911 guy, but to dismiss the striker pistol as an effective fighting handgun is a mistake.
I don't find any of them any more "unsafe" than anything.
When you combine the sheer numbers of these pistols out there, with poor gun handling skills of many people (some LE included), it's a miracle there hasn't been more of these AD/ND incidents.
Sadly, it is common for many people to use a tool or machine without taking the time to understand how it operates.

[AJMD429]

... I have no problems carrying a light weight, striker fired, pistol, in the correct holster.

Good point, that...!

Added to the "certain activities NOT to do while wearing a firearm" that would include "playful wrestling", and I think that covers 99% of the issues.

(....even though I still have so much OCD that I go nuts if I can't SEE and CONTROL the hammer... )

[Bullard4075]

All good arguments guys but I'm with doc on this one. All my important ( read that carry) guns have a hammer. Sometimes perceptions matter also.

[DocRock]

I own one striker fired pistol, everything else has a visible hammer and is either a 1911 or a single action revolver. My M&P 2.0 40 has a better trigger than most striker fired pistols, but all things are relative. I have no intention of purchasing another striker fired pistol but I'm not violently opposed to them, as long they are chambered in something, anything, other than 9mm. Now 9mm Parabellum is something I really dislike.

[Ray]

In theory, I kind of/sort of agree with you re. striker-fired self-loaders but am quite a hypocrite at the same time, owning dozens of them.....

a S & W shield 9mm is in my pocket as I type this.....and there are two kahrs and a springfield xds within reach.....

but no glocks !

[coyote nose]

One word: Colt!

[piller]

5 in the cylinder and the hammer down on an empty chamber for safety?

[AJMD429]

.
Just thought about this 'striker fired pistol' topic in light of the SIG 320 unintended discharges - these videos were great explorations of the mechanism of the problem, and pretty well makes it clear that there IS a problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuTxhHZ0uiA and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RIvHsZZ9ho

Supposedly the 'not a problem' was 'fixed' or 'upgraded'. Of course the SIG attorneys made sure the 'upgrade' language was carefully worded so it wasn't so much fixing a 'problem' as it was just an 'upgrade'. The pre and post-'upgrade' video here is interesting in that light - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmwpkJuIR00.

Now I generally like SIG firearms, although I also generally dislike non-exposed-hammer guns, so my only SIG at this point is a P-938 (mini-1911 in 9mm).

It is a great, easy-to-shoot mini-compact 9mm, and works even for those like me with long skinny fingers.

I have reconciled myself to liking the Glock, and since it doesn't really have the striker fully tensioned until you pull the trigger, and there are decent and time-proven safety mechanisms, I trust the Glock but would NOT trust the SIG 320.

However even better than the Glock, the Ruger RXM seems to have many of the improvements one might desire vs the Gen-3 Glock.

One thing about the 'modularity' of the Glocks though (and other striker-fired guns I suppose) is that there is temptation to swap out parts, and even such a 'basic' swap as a new slide, affects the sear/striker interface - and that is asking for trouble. Either all the fire control parts should be affixed to the same chassis, or where impossible due to design (like the striker guns), then the alignments need to be something MUCH more precise than a slide and rails that are abbreviated and subject to wear.

I would recommend that anyone with a Glock get an 'armorers rear slide plate' and use it to visualize directly the amount and consistency of sear-striker engagement. They cost about $6 (or one could modify a regular one I suppose - but having it be orange is kind of a nice way to be sure you don't forget and try to fire the gun with the partial plate in place). https://www.glockstore.com/Glock-Armore ... over-Plate. I suppose a similar part would work to inspect other similar firearms.

I may get used enough to the Ruger RXM (very similar to a Glock Gen 3) to depend on it for CCW - mostly I got one because it was not much more expensive than getting a new 'cut' slide so I coould see if I would like a red-dot sight on a CCW gun (being left eye dominant and used to closing my left eye reflexively whenever I start to shoot a handgun isn't exactly a helpful thing with a red-dot). But the gun itself is relable and ergonomically better than the Glock-19 in my opinion.

So far though, the best sights for me on a handgun for CCW or ordinary (non-paper-target-shooting) purposes is a 'ghost ring' rear, and the tritium ghost ring setup for the Glock is awesome. Not able to find quite the same for a 1911 or Taurus PT-92, even though they are my preferred 'platforms'. The nice thing about the ghost ring Glock setup is that with an underbarrel light, they are VERY useable at night in either dim light, lateral artificial light, or zero light.


https://www.ameriglo.com/products/details/gl-225

Anyway, with the SIG 320 issues, my skepticism of non-exposed-hammer guns is still present. Pretty much with ANY gun, the fewer parts, the less 'fitting' needed, and the simpler the mechanism, the better in my opinion. The 1911 is kind of like an Uzi - and the Marlin 1894's - just a few parts, most of them rather large, near-zero hand-fitting needed, and basic, time-tested mechanisms - compare to the SIG 320's, Calico 950's, and Winchester 92's, respectively. I prefer the first series, although the Win-92's are certainly good enough (the SIG 320 I see no reason to bother with and the Calico 950's are pretty cool, but complex enough to be more 'range toy' than practical gun for home defense).

[Bill in Oregon]

Those look like interesting sights, Doc. I have similar, but standard open rear, on my Shield Plus.

[Scott Tschirhart]

The problem is not that it was a Glock or a striker fired pistol.

Sounds like somebody is trying to build a lawsuit against Glock.

I’m no Glock fanboy because I’m much more comfortable with a good Colt SAA. BUT I often carry a Glock 48 in the summer because it works for my uses.

[JimT]

I can't say anything about Glocks from personal experience since I have never fired more than 50 rounds from several different ones. Personally I did not care for the way the trigger felt on any of them. The only other "plastic" striker fired gun I ever shot was a Kahr and those had the best trigger .... For my tastes. And I am not trying to convert anyone. That is just my biased opinion. For me I prefer the 1911 platform if I carry a semiautomatic because that is what I have been used to for more than 75 years and I don't have to think about how to run it.

My first choice is a sixgun. A single action preferably. Decades of muscle memory. Whenever I have carried a double action six gun and had to use it I found I cocked the hammer for each shot. I only noticed afterwards.

[Steve in MO]

If there is ever a marketing class on 'how not to deal with controversy,' Bud Light and SIG should serve as perfect examples. SIG has done a horrible job of getting out in front of whatever issue is going on with the 320 series, perceived or not.

I use Glocks a lot simply because most of my students are using them or some other flavor of polymer handgun. On my own time I"m usually carrying some form of wheelgun, or a 1911.

[Scott Tschirhart]

If there is ever a marketing class on 'how not to deal with controversy,' Bud Light and SIG should serve as perfect examples. SIG has done a horrible job of getting out in front of whatever issue is going on with the 320 series, perceived or not.

I totally agree!

[jeepnik]

I have semi autos that are SA, DA/SA, DAO, striker and whatever you want to call the Glock action. Absolutely none of them will fire unless a human is involved. You could set them on a bench magazines loaded, with a chambered round and the safety system engaged and they will never fire unless a human does something.

There are more fanciful explanations for accidental discharges (hey, the term worked for about a century until some one decided it was a negligent discharge) than y you can shake a stick at. They are only limited by the imagination of the person responsible.

[Grizz]

it's amazing how long this topic has been floating around, poking me.

I really like striker-fired hand guns, the ones i have, an xd 9 sc and an xd 45c.

they are nearly identical, except where they're not.

I really like the grip safety. a lot. and i like the loaded chamber indicator a lot.
and i like the gun cocked tell tale at the back of the slide. with out looking,
blindfolded i can pick up those guns and know exactly what condition they are in.

plus i like the record they have for reliability, and i like their accuracy. i think
that they are serious battle weapons. i read an article about a 30000 round
torture test of the xd9 and the gun just kept going and going. i bought that and the xd45
same place, same day. it's like they were waiting for me in that pawn shop.

i can't imagine not having them, or replacing them. i can't wear them out, and they
reward everyone who shoots them. as i said, i really like them. thumbs up for XDs
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