348win wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 9:43 pm
I don't like slings at all, figure if your using an open sight gun, walk w it on the ready.
Mostly curious of interesting ways to use the saddle rings. What people do.
I put slings on virtually every one of my guns, they are extremely useful. that in no way means one is required to carry one slung at any or all times, the best place is in the hand, but sometimes those hands get busy, even just taking a pee break, not to mention if you have to drag game out or carry your snake bit dog out. So, going to lay your gun down in the dirt, rocks or against a sage brush? Ive scratched up several doing things like that.
Saddle/sling rings. Heres my take. Winchester copied them from older military cavalry carbines, they were used clear back into flintlock times, its not by any means Winchesters idea. The term "saddle ring" came about much later, primarily by collectors I believe. The military use for them is what would now be termed a single point sling, a wide leather sling loop over the soldiers body/shoulder, the gun attached with a large snap, it hung off the right side so the gun wouldnt be dropped when riding or dismounting in a hurry. Later cavalry saddles had a small "socket" or boot that held the barrel of the gun from flopping around a lot, the sling still attached to the soldier.
Winchester copied the butt style, leaf "ladder" rear sights and sling ring from existing military guns, I believe they always wanted to interest the military, any military, in their guns so included common styles and features. they were very slow in changing things. For example, they cut a screwdriver slot in the end of the magazine cap until well into the 1930s I believe. they stopped using threaded magazine caps in the 1870s. Basically useless vestigal items. Yes, we look at them as cool old time things, but the bottom line is they were pretty useless, the sling rings. Its understandable why so many were cut or otherwise removed from guns, Ive removed most from mine, the 73 carbine hasnt had it removed yet but it will, its already scratching up the side of the receiver. The original older ones were about a 14" threaded shank, the more modern ones were decorative and only about a 1/8" threaded shank, not something Id trust to have a gun flopping around on. Filler screws take care of the hole nicely.
Image search for cavalry carbine sling.
https://www.google.com/search?q=cavalry ... client=img
JR, a former member here, used one made of modern materials, and a few others took it up for a while, I feel a common sling is at least as useful in general, but thats just me.
"Everybody knows" that they were used to hang the guns off a saddle horn with a loop of leather,...only theres no historical writings or images of anyone doing it. Someone may have, but I dont believe it was common by any means. we do have a fair amount of images and information about people hunging their rifles of the saddle horn with a loop of leather, only its the California Loop. Many may have misunderstood the concept and thought it applied to the sling rings, of which there is no know hisotrical information to support it, but the California Loop was well know, to the point the NWMP used them s regular and official eqiuipment with their Winchester 1876 carbines. the ides was known back into percussion days. Saddle scabbards pretty well took over at some point. Many simply carried their rifles across the front of their lap on the saddle. Ive done it, it works well with a saddle that fits well and its not excessively brushy, at which point I carried it in hand. I had a scabbard but didnt really want the gun in it was it was good grizzly country and I wanted my gun to come off with me if it got exciting.
Good piece on the various method of carry including good pictures of the California Loop. There are existing descriptions of it from way back as well as period artwork depicting its use.
https://truewestmagazine.com/article/ri ... -old-west/
somewhere recently extra-light loads were mentioned, I read it on my tablet but cant find it now. Anyway, in 30-30, a .315" round ball, lubed with Lee liquid alox, and loaded with 3 1/2 grs Unique, and a small tuft of dacron pillow stuffing to keep the powder near the primer, makes about as much noise as a 22 LR standard vel load. 6 1/2 grs unique with the dacron tuft is about 32-20 power level, a bit more noise, but a useful small game load. No dacron ends up with inconsistent ignition in my experience.
The round ball loads are excellent grouse, snake and close in bunny killers. I keep the magazine full of regular loads and single load the lighter loads as needed, a simple task in the winchester action. If the cartridge carrier cmes up it can be pushed back down with the little finger easily and the action closed. I make similar loads for 348 and 45-70. 3 grs Red dot with round ball in 348 and 6 1/2 grs unique with round ball in 45-70.
Hand seat the ball so the major diameter is just inside the case mouth, gently crimp ball in place so the crimp bites some of the ball, and done.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-
Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?
and down the top each side the receiver at rear for these sight/scope arrangements
