New Bisley .41 magnum

[Walt]

Around the third week of December Lipsey's released a new Ruger revolver, a flat top Bisley 5 1/2" stainless steel .41 mag on a medium frame. I initially saw one in a local gunshop week before last, somewhat surprised that it had made it out to this part of the country in a bit over a month. I went back last week, almost hoping that someone else had purchased it but there it was so I felt I had an obligation to give it a home. I spent a couple of hours on it smoothing the action and the other things I do with single actions. My shooting partner and I took it out this morning, shooting at our normal gongs lined up a hillside, the farthest an 8" plate at 65 yards. I'm enthused, this may become one of my favorite revolvers. I have another medium frame revolver in the same configuration but in .44 special which is also a fine shooter. I shot some moderately hot loads, Hornady 210 gr XTPs over 17.7 gr of AA-9 at just under 1300 fps and it shot beautifully, the all-stainless weight making it very comfortable to shoot. Retail price at this point is about $775 and in my opinion it's well worth it.

[JimT]

Nice catch! The .41 is a most excellent cartridge.

[Walt]

I think so too, Jim. Lipsey's plan is to eventually come out with the same gun except blued. I fear that the .41 mag is becoming more and more rare and some components are becoming difficult to find. Many people haven't even heard of the caliber. I hope Lipsey's sells enough of them to progress to the blue model but if they don't, I have mine. I do try to introduce as many people as possible to this fine caliber.

[AJMD429]

.
Is a 'medium frame' for a single-action Ruger a regular 'Blackhawk' frame (and the Super Blackhawk the large, and Vaqureo the small...???)

[AJMD429]

.
With the 'modern' 45 Colt loads and guns, one could 'get by' with a 45 Colt and 41 Mag and 357 Mag and 32-20....and not really need the intermediate 44 Mag...

That would certainly cover the 'spectrum' well. In short action leverguns I'd have the top-end at 500 S&W but I'd not want a revolver in that cartridge.

[JimT]

I think so too, Jim. Lipsey's plan is to eventually come out with the same gun except blued. I fear that the .41 mag is becoming more and more rare and some components are becoming difficult to find. Many people haven't even heard of the caliber. I hope Lipsey's sells enough of them to progress to the blue model but if they don't, I have mine. I do try to introduce as many people as possible to this fine caliber.

You can easily get bullet molds if you cast. Over the years I tried all types of bullets in the .41 and settled on two. All my shooting is done with either the 210 gr. XTP or the 230 gr. cast NEI FP.

The 230 gr. cast NEI

IMG_6424.JPG

The 210 gr. XTP after going through a cow elk. It stopped in the hide on the off side.

210 gr. XTP.JPG

[CowboyTutt]

I'm also a big fan of the 41 Mag in a Ruger SA but I don't think I will be "taking the plunge" as they say. I just went in a different direction decades ago, and I guess that is where I will be staying. Love my 10mm Kimber however, if I have to compromise and use an auto gun. -Tutt

[Scott Tschirhart]

I have a Bowen conversion of an old model Ruger small frame .357 to .41 Magnum.

I really haven’t works with it much and I really need to see what it can do. It’s a little light for heavy loads but it seems awfully handy.

[Walt]

I have a number of molds for .41 caliber; I was never really happy with the Lyman 410610 gas check bullet. It didn't seem to shoot well in my guns but I really like the plain base RCBS 41-210 SWC. I also have a couple of aluminum molds from Accurate Molds, both in 230 grain, one with a gas check and the other without. I very seldom shoot jacketed bullets in any of my guns but that 210 XTP is a dandy in .41 magnum.

[Bill in Oregon]

Just a gorgeous revolver, and a prime candidate for the "If I could only have one..." award! Walt, we need photos of yours!

[44shooter]

.
Is a 'medium frame' for a single-action Ruger a regular 'Blackhawk' frame (and the Super Blackhawk the large, and Vaqureo the small...???)

Not quite. Original flattop Blackhawks are medium-frame as are the New Vaquero, the 50th anniversary 357 and other modern flattops like this 41. The medium is not considered large enough for 44 mag or hot rodded 45 Colt. I read Ruger blew up one of the first three in 44 magnum and went to develop the larger frame. The med frame is great for 357, 44 Special, and SAAMI spec 45 Colt and is close to SAA size. Evidently it has been deemed adequate for the 41 now as well. Quite a lot of cartridge for this size gun

Blackhawks were changed to a bigger frame long ago and are the same as the Super Blackhawk and the original Vaquero. These are what we see most often in 30, 357, 41, 44, 45s, and all three of the 40/10mm up to five shot 454 & 480

There is no small frame unless we go to the Single-Six (seven, ten etc) or the tiny Bearcat

It is pretty confusing and I have to think through it when perusing as Ruger does not make it very clear. All Supers are big but most Blackhawks are as well. But there are two sizes of Blackhawks and two sizes of Vaqueros. Bisleys and Birdheads have been made on both sizes. To the best of my knowledge all flattops are the smaller frame and all smaller frames are flattops with the exception of New Vaqueros which are also smaller frames. It does throw a wrench into the “Ruger only” 45 Colt loads thing and perhaps holster shopping

[stretch]

I've got my name on a list at the local shop for one of these.

Big fan of the 41 Magnum. I got a bunch of cast 41 Mag bullets at
a dirt cheap price at a gun show, so once I get the critter I can unlimber
the loading press and get to work. Good Fun!

I need to check in and see if they've heard anything.

-Stretch

[Walt]

44Shooter, I have not seen any warnings to avoid the hottest loads in a medium frame Ruger .41 magnum but I am certain that Ruger covered all their bases before releasing these revolvers. Considering their .480 Ruger and .454 Casull revolvers with "Carpenter" alloys used in their cylinders, I'm not worried about the strength of these guns.

[Grizz]

Not quite. Original flattop Blackhawks are medium-frame as are the New Vaquero, the 50th anniversary 357 and other modern flattops like this 41. The medium is not considered large enough for 44 mag or hot rodded 45 Colt. I read Ruger blew up one of the first three in 44 magnum and went to develop the larger frame. The med frame is great for 357, 44 Special, and SAAMI spec 45 Colt and is close to SAA size. Evidently it has been deemed adequate for the 41 now as well. Quite a lot of cartridge for this size gun

Thanks for the info. how would it do with 45 Super or 45 ACP+P ? i saw a new vaquero with a 45 ACP cylinder.

are the 41 mag and 45 super rounds about the same pressures, if you know.

thanks

[44shooter]

+p would be fine I’m sure, as would equivalent 45 Colt pressures (23k). I’m not sure about 45 Super, but I think it would handle it

[44shooter]

44Shooter, I have not seen any warnings to avoid the hottest loads in a medium frame Ruger .41 magnum but I am certain that Ruger covered all their bases before releasing these revolvers. Considering their .480 Ruger and .454 Casull revolvers with "Carpenter" alloys used in their cylinders, I'm not worried about the strength of these guns.

I wouldn’t worry about the new 41 flattops either. I did not mean to imply it was inadequate or prematurely released, but that it is size efficient for the power level. This and the FA 97 are sweet spots for 41 mag IMO as they provide for a smaller gun than can be had in 44 magnum, in single action at least.

[Walt]

In the case of the Freedom Arms model 97 .41 mag, since it's only a five round revolver a smaller cylinder can be used that still has plenty of strength. BTW, it's my understanding that SAAMI in its infinite wisdom downgraded both the .41 and the .44 mag from the previous 43.5K psi maximum chamber pressure down to 36K psi.

[Bill in Oregon]

Got to finger one at the Lion's Club gun show in Cruces today. Was right across the aisle representing our VFW chapter. Managed ... to ... resist ...

[Walt]

Bill, my very first impression when the counterman handed it to me was that it was surprisingly heavy. The weight and the Bisley configuration make it very pleasant to shoot even with hot loads. I have both barrel lengths of Ruger Blackhawks in .41 mag and the feel is completely different.

[Walt]

Another of my favored .41 magnums is a Smith 4" model 657. I shoot it pretty well with full power loads despite the deterioration of my lower thumb joints due to arthritis.

Years and years ago a friend and I set up to do a coyote call in the mountains above Los Alamos. I had along my Smith 657. I had only called for a very short time when suddenly a coyote appeared about 20' away standing broadside and downhill just a bit. To my total embarrassment I missed him and he was gone in a flash. What a mighty hunter.

[Bill in Oregon]

Was just up in Los Alamos for a couple of days last week. Sunshine, but snow in the shadows.

[JimT]

Years and years ago a friend and I set up to do a coyote call in the mountains above Los Alamos. I had along my Smith 657. I had only called for a very short time when suddenly a coyote appeared about 20' away standing broadside and downhill just a bit. To my total embarrassment I missed him and he was gone in a flash. What a mighty hunter.

I have called a lot of coyotes in and I confess that I missed at least as many as I connected with. When they suddenly seem to appear out of thin air just a few feet away it can go a long ways toward ruining any fine motor skill control you may think you possess.

[stretch]

Because of my weak moral fiber, I'm first on the list for one at my local gun shop - I checked on Friday!

-Stretch

[Crazy Horse]

I wanted one bad and could have gotten one from my dealer, but he wanted $875 + tax which would make it over $950. I couldn't do it.

[horsesoldier03]

You got a hell of a deal, worth every penny. And as far as that coyote goes, you may not have missed, I have seen them hit with a 500 lbs anvil and they walk away.

[Bill in Oregon]

Hey Walt, what do you think of your .41 Bisley three months later?

[GunnyMack]

My old model BH was unpleasant with 4⁵/⁸ and hot loads. Then I found a brass grip frame at Midway. Lots of filing and polishing but the extra weight seems to help the recoil some.
I was so taken with 41mag that I got a Henry 41 to go with it.
I keep the BH stoked with Remington 210 soft points for bear medicine when walking the dogs.

[OldWin]

I somehow missed this post.
That's a fine looking Bisley Walt! Glad it's a good shooter. My dad has a Blackhawk in .41. It's a great cartridge.

Oh, and I really like the 657! That is real slick.

[stretch]

I'm at the top of the list at my local dealer.

-Stretch

[Walt]

Bill, I have to confess that I haven't shot it as much as I'd like. There's no problem with the gun at all, it shoots fine. The problem is that I have too many guns and I tend to lean toward shooting my old favorites. But, you jerked my chain a bit so I will make a point of taking the .41 Bisley out over the next couple of times that I go shooting. I'll let you know.

I have regular .41 Blackhawks in both barrel lengths and the recoil of the Bisley, having an all steel frame, isn't anything like shooting especially the short barreled BH. Shooting the short BH you do have to pay attention to your grip or you can certainly ding the knuckle of your middle finger shooting hot loads.

Along those lines, my friend Jim, who helped John Linebaugh's gunmaking business get off the ground with his magazine articles on the .475 and .500 Linebaughs has really fat fingers and shooting his .500 Linebaugh banged up his middle finger to the extent that he no longer shoots or even owns any single action revolvers. I think that's a shame.

[OldWin]

Yup. We got the knuckle dents with ours too. We put a Super Blackhawk grip frame on it years ago.

[Walt]

I read a Paco Kelly article years ago in which he detailed some of his experiments with a Ruger .41 mag. He was loading really hot rounds and estimated that his chamber pressures got up around 65K psi. I can't remember exactly what that accomplished but at least he didn't hurt himself or destroy the gun.

[OldWin]

Nope. No way. Even in my youth, standard pressure was plenty for me.
I was a sophomore in HS when my dad bought that .41. We were deer hunting one morning and we'd met up and were walking out for lunch. We had come out a tote road into a field. There was a Grove of trees grown up around an old foundation about 50 yards from where the tote road came into the field. We'd caught a porcupine heading for the Grove about halfway there. When he saw us, he hit the afterburner (I never saw a picky dog move that fast).
Before I knew what happened, dad shucked that Blackhawk and one handed shot that porky neat as you please. It was about 35 yards out by then on a dead run. That 210hp hit that sucker and sped him up considerably. Rolled him in a shower of quills and guts. I was o e impressed 16 year old kid. Not only by the damage, but I'd never seen the old man shoot like that.
I can still remember looking at him like I'd never seen him before. Anyway....I always think of that day when I hear the .41 mentioned.

[GunnyMack]

Ah, the arrogant idiot-u-pines, nature's one animal that supplies you with food and weaponry. Funny critters. Thankfully we don't have them here as I know I'd be plucking quills from my dogs!
I saw a guy shoot one with a 12ga with turkey loads once, quills flying like broken glass.
I guess that's when you realized not to F with the old man eh Jay?

I've got to get that 230gr 41 mould fired up that I got from Bill!!!!

[OldWin]

Yeah they do a lot of damage here. We had a beagle and hunted rabbits in the same area, so we shot them.
There was an old maple syrup operation grown up in the woods near where I had a stand. There was a huge wood burning boiler that was about 20 feet long. It had a sheet metal cover and any time you lifted it there was a picky dog in it. It was literally full of porcupine poop from eons of them living in it. Last time I lifted that cover I was a junior in HS and shot one with a 1939 S/42 Luger.

[JimT]

Years ago I tried a lot of cast bullets of various weights in the .41 and settled on the 230 gr. NEI FN plain base bullet.

IMG_6424.JPG

IMG_1257.JPG

NEI230FP-3.JPG

[Bill in Oregon]

That's some very fine shooting Jim -- and a deer, elk and hog-killing load, too.

[GunnyMack]

Hmm, I'm going to have to try the load of yours Jim, I recently took possession of a pound of old stock 2400.

[AJMD429]

Bill, my very first impression when the counterman handed it to me was that it was surprisingly heavy. The weight and the Bisley configuration make it very pleasant to shoot even with hot loads. I have both barrel lengths of Ruger Blackhawks in .41 mag and the feel is completely different.

Maybe the slightly smaller bore makes the barrel weight that much more to help heft/balance.

A friend had a Redhawk in 357 Mag that was a big beast, but 'tamed' the hottest imaginable 357 Mag loads - seemed about like using a 38 Special load in a S&W Model 10... (only lots more flash and noise).

[Walt]

Doc, the Bisley .41 mag weighs a little under 3lb and has a steel grip frame; my 6 1/2" Blackhawk weighs 2lb 9oz and my 4 5/8" Blackhawk weighs 2lb 7oz which surprised me because I thought the difference in the alloy-framed guns would be greater. The short BH does have a steel ejector rod housing which doesn't have much effect on weight but probably helps a bit with muzzle flip.

[Walt]

Hey Walt, what do you think of your .41 Bisley three months later?

Bill, I took the Ruger Bisley .41 mag shooting yesterday and it shot very well, especially with the 210 gr RCBS cast bullets over 14.5 gr of #9 for a little over 1,000 fps. My 225 gr Accurate Mold bullets also shot well over 17.3 gr of #9.

However, there were some attendant issues with the gun that I had forgotten about. I couldn't understand why the cylinder was dragging when I was loading it. I had to help rotate it with my hand as I was pulling back the hammer. It appeared that the loading gate was what was causing the binding and in fact there was a smear of brass rubbed off on the loading gate. I carefully reduced the thickness of the gate with emery cloth but it didn't resolve the dragging although it was a bit better.

Then, after opening up the gun three times I noticed that upon opening the loading gate, the last eighth inch of rotational travel pushed the gate forward toward the cylinder. With a magnifying glass I saw that the frame had not been milled out adequately, that there was a small protrusion that forced the loading gate forward. Using a small file I removed the protrusion and eliminated the problem.

This was a very early production model of this gun and it's quite likely that Ruger has fixed the issue. Despite having put quite a few hours of work into the gun, I would definitely buy another one if I lost this one. It's a good shooter and now it's smooth as melted butter.

[Bill in Oregon]

Walt, thanks for the detailed report. We had a gun show at the Cruces Convention Center back in January, and I was working our VFW post's table right across from a guy who had one of the SS Bisley flattops for sale. Couldn't keep my hands off it.
Went to his shop a couple of weeks ago and he had sold it but he did have a regular Blackhawk in .41 with the 6 1/2-inch barrel. I swapped him a Blackhawk in .45 Colt for it and am gearing up once again to load for this interesting caliber. I also ordered a brass mold from Arsenal that should drop a 220-grain RNFP -- their 41-220-RF, which I have heard raves about on other forums. Still looking for some Accurate No. 9. Local Sportsman's has No. 5 and No. 7 but no 9 ...
Sorry to hear your sixgun had some significant issues that needed to be addressed, but you are the guy to do it.
By the way, the bore on this one measures .409 in the grooves.

[Walt]

Bill, is there a Cabelas or Bass Pro shops store in your area or in El Paso? The store up here also had only AA-2, AA-5 and AA-7 for a long time but within the past few months have had AA-9 available as well.

[Walt]

I have a 6 1/2" .41 BH as well and it's a very fine gun. I think you're going to enjoy yours immensely.

[Bill in Oregon]

Walt, there is a former Cabelas/current Bass Pro in El Paso. I will check their inventory. Have to drive to the El Paso Costco next week to pick up my hearing aids.

[Walt]

Bill, there are several powders in the same burning rate range as 2400 and #9. I have used 4227 quite successfully in the past. With 19.0 grains of 4227 behind a 210 gr cast bullet, the velocity while a bit lower than heavy loads of 2400 or AA-9 makes a good load and is quite accurate at a bit above 1100 fps. Ramshot Enforcer seems to be available in my area and although I have about 4 lbs of it, I've never tried it.


FYI....

This is a request for information I sent to IMR/Hodgdon..

Luke;
Several gun writers, including John Taffin no longer use the H- or IMR- prefix in front of 4227 powder. Has a change been made and how long ago? If I purchase new 4227 how close will the burning rate be to my existing powder which is probably 5 years old? Is the difference in burning rate between the two powders greater than variations in lot numbers?
Thanks for your response.
Walt


Hello Walt, The IMR and H4227 powders are so close they can use the same load data and the variation was no more than you would see from different lots. This is only true for this number and not for other IMR/Hodgdon powders that share a number.

Luke Otte
Technical support
6430 vista dr.
Shawnee, Ks 66218