Case splitting and Corrosion 30-30 Reloads

[Bridger]

This may be a dumb question, but I’ve asked a lot of those over the many years I’ve been a member here and everybody has always been patient with me and helped me out so here we go….

I took my Win 94 out today to shoot it for the first time in quite a few years (sad, I know). I also pulled out some reloads from about 4.5 years ago. 170 gr jacketed softpoint over 30 grains of RL 15 according to my notes.

Now I didn’t tumble these cases before I loaded them, but other than looking dirty they were okay based on a visual inspection or I wouldn’t have loaded them. These cases have probably been loaded 4-6 times.

I noticed when I opened the box they looked a little rough but I really didn’t look very close other than to make sure the box was full and when I stuffed them in the rifle. I just new I hadn’t tumbled these so they weren’t the prettiest anyway.

After I shot a magazine full, I went to pick the brass up and noticed most of it was split around the neck in at least one place but in a lot of the cases several places.

Also when I got to looking at them and pulled the other tray out I realized how corroded they were. Even the dang primers….

So I plucked a couple out that looked fairly good still, shot those, and didn’t shoot any more. I intend to throw them away.

My questions are:

1. What the heck caused the corrosion? I can’t recall ever seeing that before.
2. I have never done any annealing…frankly I don’t really load and shoot all that much so most of my brass hasn’t been used all that hard but this has me thinking I should begin learning about that process now. Particularly since I always full length resize my cases. How often do you anneal? Once and done forever??
3. How many reloads are you getting out of 30-30 brass?

Pics will be in a following post.

Thanks guys, I greatly appreciate your thoughts…I’ve learned so much from this bunch over the years!

[Bridger]

Split and corroded brass pics…

I must say I’m kind of embarrassed I didn’t look closer at them when I took them out of the box…

[Steve in MO]

Three to four reloads is about what I'm getting out of my 30-30 loads. After stretching, resizing, trimming and stretching again sometimes they simply wear out. The corrosion? I'm not sure. I have some of my dad's ammo that is over fifty years old, never been in a humid environment that has corrosion on it.

[LeverGunner]

I did a small 30-30 case life test a while back, that might be of interest. I have several batches of 30-30 that have 7-8 reloads on them without any loss of cases though I'm thinking about annealing them.

viewtopic.php?t=89882

Annealing is not once and done, it's whenever the neck is work hardened. With rare/expensive/hard to acquire brass, it's not uncommon to anneal after every firing to ensure that you don't lose a case due to neck splits.

[earlmck]

Dang Bridger -- those got exposed to something bad after you loaded them.

I've been loading 30/30 for 60 years and never seen anything like that. I have never annealed my 30/30's, have probably 10 loads on my cases and have yet to see a case split. I also full-length size because I am feeding two different rifles. But case splitting is also a function of chamber dimensions and both my Marlins have pretty nice chambers. And my loads are all cast bullets with lower pressures than you'd be getting with jacketed loads. But still -- something in your environment did you dirty.

[JimT]

I am with earlmck ... the only cases I've seen do that have had something spilled or wiped on them. I have 30-30 cases that have been reloaded 7 or 8 times with no splits. I have never annealed any of them.

[rossim92]

could it be chamber or throat dimensions be a bit bigger then shell dimensions? or the shells be a bit thinner from previous firings due to stretch?

[junkbug]

I was going to say it looks like they were stored in a container with some strong cleaning solvent, and the vapors got to the the brass and began to corrode it.

[Walt]

I only have a couple of m94s in .30-30 and one has an appreciably larger chamber than the other. therefore I keep the brass separate for each. I have found that if you follow the die makers' instructions and have the press "cam over" when sizing, the brass ends up undersize and it doesn't last long. However, if I full length size and set my sizing die too long, then slowly lower it until I feel a tiny bit of resistance when I close the lever on my m94, the brass lasts almost indefinitely. Also, I normally shoot somewhat reduced loads and load only cast bullets.

[AJMD429]

I was going to say it looks like they were stored in a container with some strong cleaning solvent, and the vapors got to the the brass and began to corrode it.

Yeah I am amazed how non-acidic chemicals can attack metal - organic solvents seem to mess up brass, and I learned the hard way that ordinary household bleach eats holes in stainless steel.

[Bridger]

Thanks for the input guys!

I have scratched my head trying to think about what these rounds may have come in contact with, but I sure can’t think of any type of chemical. They were range pick up brass though so even though I assumed they had only been fired once it’s possible they have been used more or had been exposed to something before I got them, but I had had them quite a while and reloaded them numerous times. Oh well. None of my other ammo or reloads in my ammo cabinet suffered the same fate, just that box.

I don’t think my chamber dimensions are off but it is possible. This is the only split brass I’ve ever seen from this rifle. I want to get some cerrosafe anyway so when I get it I may do a chamber cast and see what I’ve got.

[Malamute]

Thanks for the input guys!

I have scratched my head trying to think about what these rounds may have come in contact with, but I sure can’t think of any type of chemical. They were range pick up brass though so even though I assumed they had only been fired once it’s possible they have been used more or had been exposed to something before I got them, but I had had them quite a while and reloaded them numerous times. Oh well. None of my other ammo or reloads in my ammo cabinet suffered the same fate, just that box.

I don’t think my chamber dimensions are off but it is possible. This is the only split brass I’ve ever seen from this rifle. I want to get some cerrosafe anyway so when I get it I may do a chamber cast and see what I’ve got.

What brand of brass was it?

I bought about 100 rounds of factory S&W 30-30 ammo, it was packed in see through blister packs of 10 rds each. I bought them at a gun show for the price of basically component bullets. Half or more of them split when fired, I threw most of the brass away, though saved a few for extra-light loads with roundballs or light cast bullets. No idea who actually made the brass for S&w but it was pretty bad.

[LeverGunner]

Thanks for the input guys!

I have scratched my head trying to think about what these rounds may have come in contact with, but I sure can’t think of any type of chemical. They were range pick up brass though so even though I assumed they had only been fired once it’s possible they have been used more or had been exposed to something before I got them, but I had had them quite a while and reloaded them numerous times. Oh well. None of my other ammo or reloads in my ammo cabinet suffered the same fate, just that box.

I don’t think my chamber dimensions are off but it is possible. This is the only split brass I’ve ever seen from this rifle. I want to get some cerrosafe anyway so when I get it I may do a chamber cast and see what I’ve got.

What brand of brass was it?

I bought about 100 rounds of factory S&W 30-30 ammo, it was packed in see through blister packs of 10 rds each. I bought them at a gun show for the price of basically component bullets. Half or more of them split when fired, I threw most of the brass away, though saved a few for extra-light loads with roundballs or light cast bullets. No idea who actually made the brass for S&w but it was pretty bad.

I have about 500 pieces of S&W 357 Magnum brass that I haven't loaded yet. I wonder if all S&W brass has issues?

[4t5]

I was given some pistol rounds in that condition, I pulled the bullet dumped the powder and popped the primers, they brass is in the cleaner waiting to be cleaned.

[Ray Newman]

For-What-It’s-Worth:

Known a few shooters who at one time picked up range brass. They soon found split necks developed, primer pockets were large, etc. As for corrosion: with range brass you do not know how the cases were previously stored and/or if clean and the charges plus number of times fired and reloaded.

I shoot a Browning-Miroku M1885 Traditional Hunte, 30 WCF (AKA 30-30). Sports a 6.5 – 20x Leopold ‘scope. I do not full length resize, neck size only. Full length resizing stresses the bass and shortens longevity. Stock trigger. Old Lee Tool hand seats primers. In my experience, hand primer seating easily and quickly identifies a loose primer pocket. After de-priming and neck sizing, cases are cleaned. Taper crimp holds bullet in place.

Over the years reloaded cases 10-12 times with this loading procedure. Have 100 rounds dedicated for use in this rifle. Found R-P (Remington-Peters) brass last longest. When the brass necks and shoulder develop splits or loose primer pockets, toss it.

My load: 17.3 or 17.7 grains of IMR 4227, Winchester Large Rifle Primer, 150 grain Berry Bullets Flat Point. Jury is still out as to which load is better. Berry Bullets are copper plated cast bullets. Velocity is in the cast bullet range. When I was much younger andmuch better eyesight, the rifle would consistently put 5 consecutive rounds in slightly under/over 1” at 100 yards.

For-Those-Not-In-The know: https://www.berrysmfg.com/

[Jeff H]

1) Any exposure to ammonia fumes will embrittle brass. Knew a fella who poured Brasso in his tumbler back in the 90s and it took years to finally discover all of what had been exposed/ruined. Read about another who converted an old horse stall to a reloading room...

2) I had some eighties Winchester brass which split that way - first firing on factory loads, which were about ten years old at that time.

3) Sorting through my dad's stuff, I've found reloads (and he was rather meticulous), using new brass, with split necks and corrosion, in plastic MTM boxes and appeared to never have been wet or even damp.

Makes you wonder what is floating around in the air in your home - or wherever you're storing your handloads.

[rossim92]

just a thought, I have dry skin, my son sweats like a horse, can human sweat cause brass to corrode?. if I handle my guns,,, i can put em away without wiping em down, if my son handles them i gotta wipe it down or it gets surface rust where he handles it.

[Griff]

I'm going to say that "hard" water will corrode brass. I have seen such corrosion on ammo not stored in a dry environment. Range brass can sit in the elements if the range doesn't police them right away (nightly). After my father passed, I found a bunch of his old ammo corroded thusly, it'd been kept in his basement that was unheated/air conditioned in the mountains of east Tennessee. Any that I used, I first cleaned it with Brasso. Any that I didn't, I turned in to the Sheriff's Dept for disposal.