‘Ethical Hunter Challenge’

[AJMD429]

.
I think this podcast does a good job of making the point that anyone other than a professional sniper who thinks they can make a humane shot on game at 500 yards is probably delusional.

https://youtu.be/Mk7fBAeEbf0

If nothing else, the time-of-flight issue bothers me, where some nearby disturbance to the animal that you were unaware of might cause it to suddenly move. If this happened at the instant you pulled the trigger you could mess, or worse yet, maim the animal.

I agree with many other people responding to the podcast in the comment section who said it would be better if they used realistic ‘hunting rifles’ rather than $3000 match rifles weighing 30 pounds, but I think, allowing unlimited rifles actually makes the point even better.

Personally I’d set my bar at 250 yards, with the same 5” circle for a 2 MOA zone. If I could do that reliably on a first shot I would be extremely pleased - and confident.

It would also be if interest to do something similar with LEVERGUNS. Again I think I’d say 250 yards and 5 inches. I think I’ll suggest that…!

[GunnyMack]

I'm with ya Doc, 250 and under is more ethical in my mind.
However, out west 250 is usually considered a chip shot by most as distances get long fast.
If you notice on most of these long range shows they almost always shoot the critter in the spine. The first elk I ever shot I hit high and it dropped. I miss judged the range and my .338 225gr Hornady shocked the spine but didn't touch anything vital. I knew for sure that elk was DRT but by the time I got to where it was supposed to be in the oak brush all I found was a little hair. I spent an hour doing circles and had a lost , wounded animal. That empty feeling in my gut wasnt satisfying on my first western big game animal!I redeemed myself the next day on another elk.
Now shooting long range is a ton of fun! Rocks, plates, whatever can be a real good teaching experience but the average guy can't guess 150 from 300 when plunked down into big open expanses of the west. Sure technology has allowed these guys to get corrected ranges, flatter shooting cartridge development , better barrels etc but I'd rather be able to see the hair on that elk!

[Walt]

My son and his friend went on an elk hunt in northern NM in October and he killed a big bull at 350 yards BUT he shot off a solid rest with a very flat shooting cartridge, a .300 Win Mag with 215 gr Berger bullet. The elk didn't move a step, he was DRT.

[JimT]

Hunting with a handgun I always limited my shots to around 100 yards and under, preferring feet instead of yards. I shot quite a few deer at less than 50 feet. Other than one Javelina that I shot across a canyon, most of the ones I shot were just in feet instead of yards.

When my wife was using her rifle or if I used it, I liked 200 yards or less. I shot 3 or 4 deer with it, one out around 250 yards, but I did not like doing that. I have seen deer shot at 300 or better that took a step or moved somehow just as the shot was fired and it always resulted in a wounded deer that had to be tracked down and put out of its suffering.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I think I’m pretty good with a rifle. But I would not personally take a shot beyond 250 yards and I much prefer to be under 150 yards.

That being said, I’m not in the business of judging others who don’t share my self imposed limitations.

[Mark in MO]

I agree, 250 yards is around my limit on live animals. Have I taken big game further? Yes, but I was extremely picky about the shot and conditions had to be perfect. Those longer range shots have invariably been with my old Model 700 in 270 Winchester that I bought new 44 years ago. That rifle has always been eerily accurate and will consistently put 5 shots in under 1-inch, day in and day out without fail. After this many years I just have supreme confidence in it. Now with one of my iron sighted lever guns I limit myself to under 150 yards and preferably under 100 yards.

[gcs]

Basically agree, but with a solid rest and known drop table, 3,350 is very doable. variables being game movement, and especially wind... I would consider 350 is about the limit for an experienced shooter, but YMMV.
of course closer is always better!

[Ray]

Deleted.

[barbarossa]

I always enjoyed challenging myself to getting as close as possible as opposed to taking long shots.On one of my most memorable hunts it took me over an hour and a half with very little cover to sneak up on the deer .The deer knew something was up but just couldn’t pin down what was wrong until it was too late

[AJMD429]

I think I’m pretty good with a rifle. But I would not personally take a shot beyond 250 yards and I much prefer to be under 150 yards.

That being said, I’m not in the business of judging others who don’t share my self imposed limitations.

Well said.

Or as Clint Eastwood said "A good man knows his limitations..." and mine for a humane kill would be 250 yards, no matter how fancy a gun I had.

On the other hand I know a competitive military shooter who I'll bet could make a 500 yard 5 inch shot cold-bore 90% of the time, but not only is his rifle and scope are a $8,000 or so setup, he's rebarreled it several times due to the MANY thousands of intense practice rounds he's shot under all kinds of conditions. One of the matches he used to compete in was run 'rain or shine' and about half of the 40 or so competitors shot one year DURING a hail storm. I'm guessing if your bullet chances to hit a dime-sized chunk of ice, you're gonna miss no matter how good you are.

I always enjoyed challenging myself to getting as close as possible as opposed to taking long shots.On one of my most memorable hunts it took me over an hour and a half with very little cover to sneak up on the deer .The deer knew something was up but just couldn’t pin down what was wrong until it was too late

That is kind of the 'essence' of hunting, really. The marksmanship and ballistics part is too, but can be just as well exercised on paper or steel targets; for meat on the table there generally needs to be some element of studying the animal, the local habitat, and using either ambush or stalking.



I LIKE THE 250 YARD 5 INCH CHALLENGE THOUGH....

I think I'm gonna try to find a 250 yard range somewhere on our property (hilly and wooded so it might be a bit of a challenge) and do a 'cold-bore 5" shot' drill with some of my rifles.

In the meantime I do have a 3-inch AR500 steel gong at 100 yards, and I actually HAVE been challenging myself to hit that first-shot (off the bench) with several rifles. I find I have three classes of guns in that regard.

1) A couple or so heavy bull-barrel, heavy-stock steups with 30-40x scopes that won't miss unless I somehow really do something wrong.
2) My factory-iron-sighted ones where I can reliably hit the 8" gong but the 3" is more random luck with about 10% success.
3) The 'regular' ones I hunt or shoot with the most, either with low-power scopes or really good aperture sights, that it is a challenge but mostly doable.

As I enter geezerhood, I think more along the lines of just having a few really high quality guns set up just right that I can shoot well, versus a big variety of ones that I seldom shoot but just 'have' because I enjoy collecting them.

[Walt]

My son regularly competes in a 500 yard competition with a time limit; the goal is to hit a 10" plate, then a 6" plate, a 4", a 3" and finally a 2" plate. The range is in a windy location which makes it quite tough to do. The top competitors apparently shoot heavy barreled rifles chambered in .284 Win with high powered scopes.

[jeepnik]

I was taught and taught my kids a good hunter always gets as close as he can. And with a good bolt gun & scope don't try anything over 200 yards.

Then those sneaky critters joined the USMC. I thought I had taught them to shoot and it held them in good stead. The first the youngest then the older went to scout sniper school.

You know what. They still get as close as they can and generally don't take shots over 200 yards.

[Scott Tschirhart]

There are people who are very good shots. For example:

A 40 yard shot is pretty much my limit with a sixgun, but Jim Taylor can stretch that out to 100 yards.

Is either of us more or less “ethical”? By whose standards?

That’s why hesitate to judge what another man does and apply my own concept of ethics.