Food For Thought

[Pete44ru]

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FYI - The following is from An Alternative Look at Handgun Stopping Power by Greg Ellifritz.

Greg is a 20-year veteran police officer in central Ohio, president of Active Response Training, and an adjunct instructor for the Ohio Peace Officer’s Training Academy.
IOW, he’s been around the block.
He gathered information on as many shootings as he could to increase the accuracy of his conclusions.

Because the .327 Fed Mag is such a new round (2007), it’s not in his compilation of observed shootings. However, the .32 ACP/.32 Long is. Since the .327 is much more powerful, we are able to draw some conclusions based on the .32 ACP/Long performance.






We sometimes forget just how powerful modern guns are.

Even the "wimpy" .22 LR performed well, even though most would never consider that for a self-defense gun.


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[1894c]

I concur with your findings--we transitioned back to the 9mm because there is now not much difference between the .40S&W and the 9mm--this is mostly due to bullet design, plus many shoot the 9mm better than the 40 and shot placement is critical... :)

[gcs]

The 32 stats are pretty amazing considering that most would agree that it's not even a marginal round.
was there any other info on bullet type or composition?

[Blaine]

I'm not a math geek, but I believe the numbers can be skewed by how many times a certain caliber is used.

[piller]

Looks as if shot placement is pretty important. Practice really helps that. Enough practice and your body will react without any conscious thought.
I really don't want to get shot with anything. I have no desire to be another statistic for analysis.

[Pete44ru]

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The findings are not mine - I'm simply passing them on.

Greg did not provide projectile/boolit information in his testing, and his study consisted of a limited number of recent shootings - only 25 for the .32, while there were 106 for the .357.

But, he feels it’s still enough to get an idea of relative performance.


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[Griff]

Hmmm... no numbers for the 45Colt? Methinks the data is skewed! It's a plot to keep folks for knowing just how effective this 140 year old cartridge really is!!!

[GunnyMack]

I still like 148 gr hollow base loaded with the hollow facing forward!
Also 12 ga, open choke and #4's, NOT buckshot in th house!

[Blaine]

Hmmm... no numbers for the 45Colt? Methinks the data is skewed! It's a plot to keep folks for knowing just how effective this 140 year old cartridge really is!!!

Nah, the old 45 Colt is just fine, and dandy. It's the Old fanny burbs that use them that are unreliable.

[AJMD429]

A cartridge could average 1.5 rounds to 'behavior-change' if half the time one round did the job, and half the time it took two, but..........the only way an average rounds result could be less than one is if the 'mere display of the firearm' was enough..............so, if you take that chart and figure "1" to be the bottom - or 'maximum effectiveness', rather than "0", it shows the relative differences per cartridge more clearly.

[Rusty]

Kind of odd how the .22 did so well. I guess it's like real estate. Location, location, location.

[sore shoulder]

I'm not a math geek, but I believe the numbers can be skewed by how many times a certain caliber is used.

Yes. Also, the "number of rounds required" is not definitive since I doubt in any of those scenarios did the shooter pause to ascertain if the target was incapacitated, so whether or not follow up shots were "required" is really unprovable. Considering 9mm is so popular with LEO and bad guys alike, and multiple rounds is doctrine for LEO and sop for driveby's, you are correct.

[Pete44ru]

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IMO, the various thoughts expressed are interesting, to say the least - discussions & POV's are great !

Keep rolling on..........


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[Blaine]

It goes without saying that shooting a charging bear/hog is different from shooting a charging Human. In humans, there's not much to penetrate to get to all the really important parts.
The results of my very unscientific telephone book tests are that as far as handgun shooters go, a .44 mag 180 grain hollow point has got to be the most destructive instrument. 125 grain hollow-point .357 is probably next. I also put the .45acp 230 fmj in the same class as the 357, as the jacket usually comes off, the razor sharp pieces raise heck, and the soft lead spreads out and makes a Yuuuge hole out the back. But, telephone books aren't people. My very first EDC was a S&W 317 AirLite and the plan was to deploy 8 Stingers in a couple seconds into The Big Part. I thankfully never had to do that, but I'm fairly certainly of what the results would have been.

[claybob86]

Thanks for posting. Except for rifles and shotguns being more effective than handguns, the results are not exactly what I would have expected.