45-90 Loads for 1886

[1972RedNeck]

Anyone have some load data for 45-90 and 300 grain Hornady hollow points and 400 jacketed round nose for my Miroku 1886? Looking for something on the hot side. Varget and IMR 4895 are the only suitable powders I have. Also have LOTS of IMR 4350 I would love to use if there was a suitable load…

Starting and max charges, and COAL would be much appreciated.

[gamekeeper]

Can't help but welcome to the fire...

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I think there are a couple of people here shooting the 45-90. I shoot the 450 Alaskan, which has a nearly identical case capacity. You can shoot IMR 4350 in it, but it will be inefficient and won't produce top velocities. You might get the 300 grain Hornady #4500 to 2100fps but not much farther with 4350. It's certainly not a top load. But if you're looking to burn some up, it's usable.

Ideally, you'd need 3031 or AR-Comp. But with 4895, you can get close ... maybe 2300fps.

I'm also not sure what OAL your '86 will eat reliably in 45-90 with that Hornady on top. You could load to the theoretical max of 2.88" and find that it won't cycle. Have you made any dummy rounds to test through the action? Wide meplats in my 450 Alaskan limit my OAL for feeding below 2.8".

[samsi]

Ken Waters covered the 45-90 in the March-April '86 issue of Handloader and Greg Mushial's website had a bunch of info from when he was playing around with a converted Marlin '95. Other than that, I'd go with Level 2 45-70 data and do the math for the capacity difference.

[Griff]

You might PM a member here by the handle "CRS" as I know he loads for a 45-90 1886TD.

[EG73]

You might PM a member here by the handle "CRS" as I know he loads for a 45-90 1886TD.

He took his to Africa didnt he? Beastly loads with heaps of Oomph taking down anything over there..

[JBowen]

Welcome aboard 1972 Redneck! I can't help you with the 45-90, but somebody on here probably can.

JBowen

[1972RedNeck]

You might PM a member here by the handle "CRS" as I know he loads for a 45-90 1886TD.

Sent him an email.

[1972RedNeck]

Ken Waters covered the 45-90 in the March-April '86 issue of Handloader and Greg Mushial's website had a bunch of info from when he was playing around with a converted Marlin '95. Other than that, I'd go with Level 2 45-70 data and do the math for the capacity difference.

Have a link or a copy of it?

[JFE]

There’s 45/90 data out there but there isn’t a lot of high pressure, pressure tested data available like there is for the 45/70.

Real Guns is about the hottest data available and that’s about 45/70 levergun performance. The Ken Waters article contains fairly low pressure load data.

Having said that most conventional cup and core bullets are not designed for high velocity - most perform well on game in the 1600-1800 fps range.

If you PM your email address I can send you copies of the data I’ve managed to find.

[1972RedNeck]

If you PM your email address I can send you copies of the data I’ve managed to find.

Message sent

[1972RedNeck]

I think there are a couple of people here shooting the 45-90. I shoot the 450 Alaskan, which has a nearly identical case capacity. You can shoot IMR 4350 in it, but it will be inefficient and won't produce top velocities. You might get the 300 grain Hornady #4500 to 2100fps but not much farther with 4350. It's certainly not a top load. But if you're looking to burn some up, it's usable.

Ideally, you'd need 3031 or AR-Comp. But with 4895, you can get close ... maybe 2300fps.

I'm also not sure what OAL your '86 will eat reliably in 45-90 with that Hornady on top. You could load to the theoretical max of 2.88" and find that it won't cycle. Have you made any dummy rounds to test through the action? Wide meplats in my 450 Alaskan limit my OAL for feeding below 2.8".

Do you have any good 450 loads with IMR 3031 and 300 or 400 grain bullets?

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Do you have any good 450 loads with IMR 3031 and 300 or 400 grain bullets?

I don't load the 300 grain. And the 400 grain I do load isn't going to be comparable since it has that copper partition in the middle and thus is longer than a normal cup and core bullet. That changes the volume and pressures.

Pressure limits for the 45-90 are also lower (32K max) than what the 348 WCF / 450 Alaskan can run (46K max). My load of 3031 for the 350 grain Speer wouldn't likely even fit in the 45-90. And if you did manage to press it down in there, you'd probably end up over 50K psi.

Varget and IMR 4895 are a bit slow. If I put it into Quickload w/ a 24" barrel and a 2.88" COAL with the Hornady 300gr HP (#4500), 61.5 grains of IMR 4895 produces 23Kpsi and 2000fps. Seems like a good place to start anyway.

[Turdyturdy]

This info from my Lyman Ideal # 39 dated May 1953:

45-90 COL 2.718
300 gr. Jacketed, 62 gr. 4895 at 1975 (Winchester nickel steel barrel only)
50 gr. 4895 at 1550 for non nickel steel barrel

[JFE]

In the data I emailed you, you have data published by Lyman that produces quite decent velocities for 300 and 400 gr pills (2200 and 2000fps, respectively). You can start there and work up carefully. Bear in mind that straight wall cartridges do not display the normal pressure signs that bottleneck cartridges do, so you do need to exercise due care.

At some point a gun scribe will take up the challenge and provide pressure tested high pressure loads but in the meantime it’s a DIY project.

As mentioned in an earlier post, conventional cup and core pills in 300 and 400 gr weights generally aren’t designed for high speed. If you are wanting to push ballistics I would steer you towards to a 350gr Hornday FN. The 350 gr Speer was designed for the 458WM and is a tough pill but the nose length is a little long for the 45/90 unless to can source a Lee FCD to crimp it in position where it still functions in the action.

[1972RedNeck]

Other than that, I'd go with Level 2 45-70 data and do the math for the capacity difference.

What math does one do to extrapolate for the extra case capacity? I assume it is not directly proportional...

[Rimfire McNutjob]

If you are wanting to push ballistics I would steer you towards to a 350gr Hornday FN. The 350 gr Speer was designed for the 458WM and is a tough pill but the nose length is a little long for the 45/90 unless to can source a Lee FCD to crimp it in position where it still functions in the action.

I hadn't considered this point about the Speer as I have a Lee FCD and can crimp beyond the cannelure. I have to do so with the 400 grain Swift A-frame to get the proper OAL. The Hornady is definitely a shorter ogive bullet and is probably better suited to the 45-70 or 45-90. I just don't shoot it in my 450 Alaskan.

I show (in QL) that 70 to 71 grains of 4895 will run up to over 2300fps using the 300gr Hornady HP with a 24" barrel and in the mid-35Kpsi peak pressure range. It only shows 85% burned so it's a bit slow but it's reasonable if that's what you have to work with.

IMR 3031 shows less powder, lower pressure, more burned, for the same velocity ... for example. AR-Comp and A2495 show even better efficiency and lower pressures still for the same fps.

[samsi]

Other than that, I'd go with Level 2 45-70 data and do the math for the capacity difference.

What math does one do to extrapolate for the extra case capacity? I assume it is not directly proportional...

Working toward the Level 2 45-70 pressure limits, same bullet at same velocity should be more or less the same pressure. The case is essentially a cylinder so a length/percentage calculation should be pretty close. Apply that to the 45-70 start load of choice, chrono it to verify it's in the ballpark and go from there.