Accidentally won another rolling Block

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marlinman93
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Accidentally won another rolling Block

Post by marlinman93 »

I saw this Rolling Block Sporting rifle Model 1 1/2 at an auction, and after looking it over closely I knew the auction site was wrong about the Model as it is a #1 Rolling Block, not a #1 1/2. The chamber has been reamed to .32-20, but no mention of what the previous cartridge was? Likely it was a .32 Long, and got "improved" to become a .32-20.
Either way I love the little .32-20's in rifle or pistol, and the idea of a #1 Sporter in this cartridge interested me. I figured it might go high, but tossed my bid in at what I figured would get outbid, and forgot about it. This morning I checked to see what it went for and surprised to see, "You won!"
Paid them this morning, and hoping they're fairly prompt about shipping and I'll have it soon! It has a modern MVA mid-range tang sight, and silver blade front sight. I'll swap a globe sight up front so I can maybe shoot it out further with more accuracy.

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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

Post by Pat C »

Looks like a dandy rifle to shoot! Anxious to see it.
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

Post by TedH »

That will be a fun one!
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

Post by yooper2 »

Great snag! Especially if you got it for what you feel was a deal.


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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

Post by GunnyMack »

That is a very nice looking ol roller! Bet that is going to be a fun 32-20.
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

Post by Walt »

Congratulations, Vall....what a pleasant surprise!
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

Post by Oldncrusty »

Awesome. Been dreaming of something like that.
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

Post by marlinman93 »

The tang sight alone is probably worth 1/3rd of what the whole gun cost, so I thought it was a great deal. It's tough to find these Sporting Rifles under $1000, unless they're junk.
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

Post by Ray Newman »

Speaking 'bout the Remington System, AKA Rolling Block --

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1035773102

From the rifle's description:

"Remington No.5 Rolling Block Single-Shot Rifle; Serial No.: 5-31; Caliber: .30 U.S. (30-40 kRAG); 28" original round barrel with a good bore. The barrel has clear, defined rifling for its full length. This rifle is all original and in very good to excellent overall condition. This rifle comes from the personal collection of Ed Webber of Big Timber, Montana. Ed was an avid Remington Rolling Block collector and American Custom Gunmakers' Guild member. This rifle is shown in Roy Marcot's book, Remington Rolling Block Rifles, page 298."
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

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Ray Newman wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 12:11 pm Speaking 'bout the Remington System, AKA Rolling Block --

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1035773102

From the rifle's description:

"Remington No.5 Rolling Block Single-Shot Rifle; Serial No.: 5-31; Caliber: .30 U.S. (30-40 kRAG); 28" original round barrel with a good bore. The barrel has clear, defined rifling for its full length. This rifle is all original and in very good to excellent overall condition. This rifle comes from the personal collection of Ed Webber of Big Timber, Montana. Ed was an avid Remington Rolling Block collector and American Custom Gunmakers' Guild member. This rifle is shown in Roy Marcot's book, Remington Rolling Block Rifles, page 298."
This is a beauty, sure would like to have one, this one is already bid to more than I paid for my daily drive . . . . . I bonded with a 7mm rolling block carbine when I was still home, but it disappeared. Man that rifle shot straight.
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

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Ray Newman wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 12:11 pm Speaking 'bout the Remington System, AKA Rolling Block --

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1035773102

From the rifle's description:

"Remington No.5 Rolling Block Single-Shot Rifle; Serial No.: 5-31; Caliber: .30 U.S. (30-40 kRAG); 28" original round barrel with a good bore. The barrel has clear, defined rifling for its full length. This rifle is all original and in very good to excellent overall condition. This rifle comes from the personal collection of Ed Webber of Big Timber, Montana. Ed was an avid Remington Rolling Block collector and American Custom Gunmakers' Guild member. This rifle is shown in Roy Marcot's book, Remington Rolling Block Rifles, page 298."
I know Joe the seller, and he handles a number of estates. These guns from Ed Webber's estate are all extremely nice guns, although some are beautifully restored. That #5 in .30-40 Krag sold for almost $3800 and I had guessed at least $3500, and closer to $4500 considering condition, and the rarity of that model. Only one thing not original on it, and that was the tang sight. It was an original Remington Graduated Peep, but added later. Had it come from Remington with that sight they would never have drilled and tapped through the upper tang rollstamp. They don't use a rollstamp on the upper tang of guns factory D&T for a tang sight.
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

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Grizz wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 3:10 pm
Ray Newman wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 12:11 pm Speaking 'bout the Remington System, AKA Rolling Block --

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1035773102

From the rifle's description:

"Remington No.5 Rolling Block Single-Shot Rifle; Serial No.: 5-31; Caliber: .30 U.S. (30-40 kRAG); 28" original round barrel with a good bore. The barrel has clear, defined rifling for its full length. This rifle is all original and in very good to excellent overall condition. This rifle comes from the personal collection of Ed Webber of Big Timber, Montana. Ed was an avid Remington Rolling Block collector and American Custom Gunmakers' Guild member. This rifle is shown in Roy Marcot's book, Remington Rolling Block Rifles, page 298."
This is a beauty, sure would like to have one, this one is already bid to more than I paid for my daily drive . . . . . I bonded with a 7mm rolling block carbine when I was still home, but it disappeared. Man that rifle shot straight.
I would have loved to own it too, but I knew it was going to sell high. Two guys kept outbidding each other, and extending the end time. I had a arms collectors dinner last night so couldn't watch to the end, so had to check today to see how it ended.

I'm working on another Rolling Block now and hope I get it also. A sleeper with some interesting features I hope nobody notices, or realizes what they are! It might be affordable.
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

Post by Ray Newman »

Marlin Man: wish you luck with your latest find!

As for the one in the link I posted, my self-imposed bid limit was US $3100.00. I was not surprised at the winning bid.

Have you seen the preview page for the upcoming Aamoskeag auction?

https://www.amoskeagauction.com/auction-no-141/
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

Post by Ray Newman »

Grizz: you mentioned a 7mm carbine that you once had.

Was that a 7mm Spanish Mauser? I have a 7mm Spanish Mauser infantry rifle that I never shot. Bought it to convert the action into a Black Powder cartridge rifle -- a .50-70 Govt. with a wiping rod. Never got around as the death of the Lone Star rifle company owner changed my plans.

I have heard that the 7mm Spanish Mauser is a bit different than the 7mm Mauser. Does anyone know for sure?
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

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Ray Newman wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:00 pm Grizz: you mentioned a 7mm carbine that you once had.

Was that a 7mm Spanish Mauser? I have a 7mm Spanish Mauser infantry rifle that I never shot. Bought it to convert the cation into a Black Powder rifle, but never got around as the death of the Lone Star rifle company owner changed my plans.

I have heard that the 7mm Spanish Mauser is a bit different than the 7mm Mauser. Does anyone know for sure?
The difference is strictly the loading. The old Rolling Blocks in 7mm will accept a modern 7x57 cartridge, but modern 7mm are higher pressures, and old Rollers shooting them almost always develop headspace issues. Best to handload for a Roller in 7mm.

A friend called me a few days ago and asked about the #5 Rolling Block in .30-40, and what I thought it would take to win it. I told him I'd be very surprised if it went less than $3500, and not surprised at all if it went over $4000. Looks like it hit right in the middle. I think someone still got a decent price considering how rare and nice it is.
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

Post by Ray Newman »

MarlinMan: thanks for the information on the two rounds. If do decide to shoot it, it will be at low pressure/low level velocity. Age and medical maladies now restrict my shooting to only from the each and I do not care for heavy recoil. Thanks again.
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

Post by Sarge »

That's the kind of accident a man wouldn't mind having on a regular basis! Congrats on another great old roller, MarlinMan.
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

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Sarge wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 8:40 pm That's the kind of accident a man wouldn't mind having on a regular basis! Congrats on another great old roller, MarlinMan.
Thanks.
Anytime I see something at auction that interests me I ask myself what would be a good price all in at the end. I put that price in and let the chips fall at the end. I mostly get outbid as I just don't bid too high, and never watch the ending. Once in awhile it works out OK.
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

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Ray Newman wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:00 pm Grizz: you mentioned a 7mm carbine that you once had.

Was that a 7mm Spanish Mauser? I have a 7mm Spanish Mauser infantry rifle that I never shot. Bought it to convert the action into a Black Powder cartridge rifle -- a .50-70 Govt. with a wiping rod. Never got around as the death of the Lone Star rifle company owner changed my plans.

I have heard that the 7mm Spanish Mauser is a bit different than the 7mm Mauser. Does anyone know for sure?
It could have been. It was a carbine that i bought from a magazine ad, they mailed it right to me and it looked like it had been there and back, and at the time Dad bought mil-surp ammo for it that i was shooting. I was 14 or 15 and didn't pay attention, It was an absolute blast to shoot. It seemed like the bullets aimed themselves, I just plinked with it like it was a 22. Happy Days. Wish I knew the answer.
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

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Big surprise just now! The #1 Rolling Block in .32-20 just got delivered! Didn't check this morning as yesterday it still said Tuesday delivery. Suddenly a knock on the door and there was the brown truck!

The auction house did a great job packing it in bubble wrap, and it took me 15 minutes to cut all the tape and reveal the rifle! The gun is much nicer than auction pictures, with all original finish on the stock and forearm, and excellent bluing on the barrel! As suspected it's been rechambered from a .32 Long to be a .32-20. But I suspected it was a .32 Long RF, but it wasn't. It has the original centerfire breech block, so it was always a centerfire. Barrel is marked E Remington & Sons, and "32" on the bottom flat ahead of the forearm. Bore looks very shootable, and I'll run a tight patch through it before I slug it to see the groove diameter.


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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

Post by GunnyMack »

Very nice! I bet a guy could spend a lot of time plinking with that! :D
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

Post by RIHMFIRE »

oh thats nice!
I see a range report in your future.
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

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I tried some reloads I have here that fit my #2 Rolling Block .32-20, and they chambered with a fair amount of thumb pressure. I removed the decapping rod from my sizing die, and ran the round into the sizer and then it dropped right in the chamber. So appears this chamber is extremely tight tolerances, and I'll need to load more brass and test fit them before heading to the range.
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

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Tight chamber, here's to a very accurate roller!
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

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GunnyMack wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 6:21 pm Tight chamber, here's to a very accurate roller!
Sure hope so! Need to dig through my plastic storage bins and locate my stash of .32-20 brass to see what I have.
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

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Dumped all my fired .32-20 brass in my wet tumbler yesterday and ran them a couple hours. Then began running them through my sizing die to prepare for loading. I stopped after about 20 cases sized, and dropped one in the chamber of the Roller to check fit as I always do with a new gun. The block had some resistance at the end of closing, and hammer wouldn't drop! I tried several more and most fit perfect, so I began sorting those that fit into an ammo box and others into another box. About 20% didn't fit.
Grabbed my magnifying glass to look at head stamps and all that failed to fit were WRA or Western brass. The ones that fit well were REM., UMC, or REM-UMC brass. So next step was to see how the rims compared, and I found the WRA and Western had rims that were .002" larger in diameter, and the same .002" thicker also.
All of this brass has fit and functioned fine in all my .32-20 rifles and pistols, so appears this rifle is a tight rim recess cut. For now I'll sort brass and only load those that have the right stamps. But I might spin the barrel off and have my gunsmith friend do a slight rim cut increase to make all the brass fit.
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

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It's gotta be a chamber reamer difference, maybe after a reamer was worn out, I only say this because I'm working on this 92 with a 65 barrel and it doesn't like Winchester 218 brass but will chamber Remington brass fine. I have 2 boxes of Remington factory 46gr ammo, I pulled a bullet to dump powder and deprime it for a dummy... of course the neck split! :x
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

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Very nice find. I'd love to find one like that. It's interesting that the slight difference in case size causes a problem, it must be extremely tight headspace. How did the bore look?
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

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LeverGunner wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:05 pm Very nice find. I'd love to find one like that. It's interesting that the slight difference in case size causes a problem, it must be extremely tight headspace. How did the bore look?
Bore is probably a 8-9 out of perfect 10.
Only a small amount of Winchester brass in my fired brass, so I can simply avoid that brass, or use it elsewhere.
Might fit the Hepburn I ended up with at this morning's OAC single shot show! I had my Freund Sharps for sale at today's show and my friend behind me had the Hepburn. He saw the Sharps for sale, and immediately told me to consider it sold. I told him I'd take his Hepburn and knock 1/3rd off the price on my Sharps, and he was even happier.
So now I have a half octagon Hepburn in .32-20 also, and maybe it will accept the Winchester brass?
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

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My latest addition to the collection:

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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

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Wow, that's a nice one too. I'm only marginally familiar with Hepburn rifles.
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

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LeverGunner wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:34 pm Wow, that's a nice one too. I'm only marginally familiar with Hepburn rifles.
Hepburns were originally the design of firearms genius Louis L Hepburn. He designed them to be strictly a target rifle that could be easily chambered, fired, and reloaded without the shooter having to get out of position. Thus the side lever that made that possible.
Remington quickly decided that to sell a lot of the Hepburn model they'd need to make them in every configuration that their Rolling Block rifles were offered in. They went into receivership just a few years after the Hepburn was introduced, but once the company was brought back by Marcellus Hartley the Hepburn came back also, and was a very popular match rifle, plus a fair number of Sporting models also made. The Hepburn Match B and Match A pretty much became the only offhand model Remington sold, and production of regular Rolling Block Match rifles ended after the Hepburn became a better choice.
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

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marlinman93 wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:37 am
LeverGunner wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:34 pm Wow, that's a nice one too. I'm only marginally familiar with Hepburn rifles.
Hepburns were originally the design of firearms genius Louis L Hepburn. He designed them to be strictly a target rifle that could be easily chambered, fired, and reloaded without the shooter having to get out of position. Thus the side lever that made that possible.
Remington quickly decided that to sell a lot of the Hepburn model they'd need to make them in every configuration that their Rolling Block rifles were offered in. They went into receivership just a few years after the Hepburn was introduced, but once the company was brought back by Marcellus Hartley the Hepburn came back also, and was a very popular match rifle, plus a fair number of Sporting models also made. The Hepburn Match B and Match A pretty much became the only offhand model Remington sold, and production of regular Rolling Block Match rifles ended after the Hepburn became a better choice.
Thank you very much for sharing that. I just did a little bit of searching about him. I knew that L.L. Hepburn designed the Model 1894, but I didn't know of all his other designs. Do you know if there is a book that covers all of his developments?
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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

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LeverGunner wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:41 am

Thank you very much for sharing that. I just did a little bit of searching about him. I knew that L.L. Hepburn designed the Model 1894, but I didn't know of all his other designs. Do you know if there is a book that covers all of his developments?
There is no one source for Hepburn information, and it takes looking at a couple books to get history on this great firearms inventor. He spent most of his working career designing first for Remington, and later for Marlin after Remington's bankruptcy.
His first recorded work in 1850 was as a blacksmith in Colton, NY, and by 1855 he did gunsmithing work from home also. He was 25 at that time and by the early 1870's he went to work at Remington. He was shop superintendent and chief designer for Remington from early on until their bankruptcy around 1887.
During bankruptcy he was hired by John M. Marlin in 1888 to help design the new Marlin lever action rifles. He had little or no input on the Model 1888, but the first side eject breech design of the Model 1889 was all Hepburn's work. After the 1889 he designed the side loading, side eject Model 1891 Marlin .22/.32 and every other side eject Marlin rifle up until his accident in January1910 when he had a horrible slip and fall while walking to work at Marlin. He suffered from the injuries for almost 4 years until his death in August 31, 1914 from those injuries.
Hepburn doesn't get the recognition some others have gotten, but of all his patents he designed a larger percentage were actually put into production than almost any gun designer ever. He seemed to have a knack for not just coming up with ideas, but ideas that worked well.
In addition to his design skills, he was also an excellent shooter and was on the first 1874 Creedmoor Match team that beat the Irish for the world long range championship. Hepburn oversaw and helped build all the Remington rifles used in the 1874 matches, and designed the guns Remington shooters used.

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Re: Accidentally won another rolling Block

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Thank you kindly for the information. I ran across this sight (I know nothing about it) https://dutchmanwoodworks.com/l-l-hepbu ... -gunmaker/
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