Spending the afternoon indoors ......

[JimT]

making paper cartridges for the .36 and .44 percussion pistols.

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[Ysabel Kid]

I spent the morning and early afternoon melting in the heat, but chores needed to get done. I sure wish I had stayed inside to make paper cartridges!

Jim, are you loading conicals, round ball, or both?

[JimT]

I am loading mostly round balls. I like them better than the conicals. I have a home-made conical for the .44 that works fine. I prefer the round ball. No special reason other than I find them more to my liking.

EDIT: thinking about it, my preferring round balls probably has something to do with how I began reloading. Dad had me casting round balls and loading them in his old .44 Special when I was around 10 or 11. Using black powder. I have always liked shooting round balls. When I was younger I hunted with them in my Remington 1858 copy.

[Ray]

I really wish I could get into cartridge making. I've got the complete red plastic kit from pocket to horse but finding it is the challenge. The contessa, my beloved bride of 12,054 days (yesterday was our 33rd.) likes to straighten up and store my just arrived parcels where they are never seen again.

Philosophically speaking I prefer more powder than cartridges allow but for nothing more serious than ventilating a spent pizza box at fifteen paces then more powder is never necessary.

[GunnyMack]

Round balls in a 44 special- kinda like BB caps on steroids- I gotta try that.

[JimT]

On another forum I was wondering how the Armies during the Civil War produced so many paper cartridges for their troops. A friend pointed me to this:

https://encyclopediavirginia.org/990hpr ... 3a4ad0cc1/

".... the average number of cartridges made per day, by little girls from nine to twelve years of age, is 1200 each."

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Picture is from Harper's Weekly
July 20, 1861
Titled: Filling cartridges at the United States Arsenal at Watertown, Massachusetts

[Ysabel Kid]

1200 each."

Heck, even if they worked them 12 hours without break (which was possible), that's a hundred an hour or more than 1 a minute. Must have done them in stages, using loading blocks, but still... that is very impressive!

[Bill in Oregon]

Jim, I wish you would cease and desist from being so productive. You're making me feel like the underachieving sloth that I am.

[JimT]

Bill .. at our age we can be whatever we choose.

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[Grizz]

Bill .. at our age we can be whatever we choose.

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.
now I'm skeerd to look at a mirror ! ! ! LOL

[Paladin]

1200 each."

Heck, even if they worked them 12 hours without break (which was possible), that's a hundred an hour or more than 1 a minute. Must have done them in stages, using loading blocks, but still... that is very impressive!

+1

[piller]

Sounds like a fun day. Jim, you need to go see if that Confederate Soldier's ghost down near that college there will come shoot with you sometime. After all this time alone, just scaring college kids out playing in the river, he is probably lonesome for some real human company.

[Ray]

Since many revolver toters had had experiences with military arms and ammunition and were used to biting and pouring musket cartridges.....do you think they did this with colt's cartridges or at least somehow pricked/pierced the tails ?

[GunnyMack]

So Jim what does a .44 round ball weigh? How much BP was used?
I bet a guy could develop a cat sneeze load with round balls.

[JimT]

Since many revolver toters had had experiences with military arms and ammunition and were used to biting and pouring musket cartridges.....do you think they did this with colt's cartridges or at least somehow pricked/pierced the tails ?

Never heard of anyone doing it. It does not help in any way in the sixguns that I know of.

[JimT]

So Jim what does a .44 round ball weigh? How much BP was used?
I bet a guy could develop a cat sneeze load with round balls.

Dad used a .452" ball I believe it was, pressed on the end of the cartridge. I don't remember what the charge was. He made a dipper that threw the charge he used. I just dipped the powder charges and learned to double check them to make sure none were missed or double charged. The load was not heavy. The .45 caliber round balls weigh somewheres in the 130 gr. to 135 gr. range I believe. Recoil with them is very light.

[Ray]

Since many revolver toters had had experiences with military arms and ammunition and were used to biting and pouring musket cartridges.....do you think they did this with colt's cartridges or at least somehow pricked/pierced the tails ?

Never heard of anyone doing it. It does not help in any way in the sixguns that I know of.

Excerpt from colt's instructions that came with revolvers.....

"To ensure certainty of ignition, it is advisable to puncture the end of the cartridge so that a small portion of gunpowder may escape into the chamber while loading the pistol."

[GunnyMack]

I ordered a .433 round ball mould, Lee says it's approximately 120 grains.
Now I'll just have to find a powder charge. CFEPISTOL maybe just the ticket. I have it in stock too!

[JimT]

Since many revolver toters had had experiences with military arms and ammunition and were used to biting and pouring musket cartridges.....do you think they did this with colt's cartridges or at least somehow pricked/pierced the tails ?

Never heard of anyone doing it. It does not help in any way in the sixguns that I know of.

Excerpt from colt's instructions that came with revolvers.....

"To ensure certainty of ignition, it is advisable to puncture the end of the cartridge so that a small portion of gunpowder may escape into the chamber while loading the pistol."

Well that is interesting. First I have heard of it. I am no expert at paper cartridges and am just learning. I don't puncture them but I am sure the paper cartridge is torn open by the time the ball is seated. Have not had any ignition problems with them.

[Griff]

Jim,

I've never looked at using paper cartridges as I think it's just simpler to use loose powder from the flask, a lubed wad and a round ball. But I wonder, do the paper cartridges ever leave any residue in the chamber or barrel? Or is the paper fully consumed?

[JimT]

Jim,

I've never looked at using paper cartridges as I think it's just simpler to use loose powder from the flask, a lubed wad and a round ball. But I wonder, do the paper cartridges ever leave any residue in the chamber or barrel? Or is the paper fully consumed?

Unless you use nitrated paper there is residue left in the chamber. None in the barrel. If the residue does not get blown out or burned, 5 or 6 reloads can start to clog things up. I keep a rod with a brass brush on it and after a couple reloads I run it into the chambers, twirl it and pull out anything left in there.

I am using cigarette paper and it is not nitrated. I have not messed with trying to do that since the cigarette paper works OK for what i am doing. The cigarette paper cartridges work just for for hunting situations.

The difference on the range is that with the paper cartridges, you can fire about 50 shots in the time that it takes to fire about 25 using loose powder and ball.

[horsesoldier03]

My first association with cap and ball pistols was while doing reenactments as a cavalry soldier. Most of the time at least starting out we just put cream of wheat over the top of 15 -18 grains of FFFg and had good success. One day we were at a reenactment in MO where a man taught us to pack nitrate papers using a block of wood and a dowel rod. Pretty much the same process but loaded the cream of wheat first and then powder on top of that and then twisted it closed on the end, before loading we would just bite the twist off and push it in. I was impressed how much faster loading was, but I typically just carried 3 pistols and then drew a sabre once they were empty. I shot those pistols for years without ever loading a round ball. I was very impressed at the accuracy of my Pietta 1860 loaded with roundball.

Griff, my recollection is they shot clean and nitrate paper was burned and consumed in the ignition. But I darn sure always checked before shoving the next round in the cylinder and always BLEW my cylinders before loading the next batch. 1 hot amber would cause a BAD DAY!

I also used an 1863 SHARPS Military Carbine (It was a replica) It shined with paper cartridges, you didn't have to bite off anything just raise the gate right at the head of the twist. I did replace the percussion cap nipple with Musket Nipples to make it easier to get a cap on while mounted.

[Griff]

I might have to look into using the nitrated paper, I usually sit at the unloading table at matches after shooting and reload my chambers while making sure shooters have empty weapons before leaving the line, it usually takes me 3 to 4 shooters to get my two revolvers loaded. I have never had any embers left in the chambers. The only time I really worried about that was "speed loading" the Hawken, using just powder & ball.

[Griff]

Jim,

I ran across this kit and wondering what your opinion of it might be. It looks very complete and rather simple to use. I also wonder if you've ever used a lubed, wool wad between the ball & powder with the cartridges you make.

[horsesoldier03]

All I have ever used was the wonderwad (Felt) with a small dab of lube and the an oversized ball (.454) crimped in. Never have experienced a chainfire.

[Bill in Oregon]

Griff, y'all have a link to that kit you were thinking about? I am tempted to order one meinzelf.

[JimT]

Jim,

I ran across this kit and wondering what your opinion of it might be. It looks very complete and rather simple to use. I also wonder if you've ever used a lubed, wool wad between the ball & powder with the cartridges you make.

Is there a link to the Kit? I am not seeing one.

[Bill in Oregon]

I just went ahead and ordered the bare-bones mandrel, former and funnel from Guns of the West. Also ordered the .44 Kerr mold from Mark Hubbs at Eras Gone. Somethin' about that feller I find agreeable -- prolly because I know he is an archaeologist as well as a shootist.
Just realized I haven't gone into a store and asked for cigarette papers since, um, Nixon was president ...

[Ysabel Kid]

Just realized I haven't gone into a store and asked for cigarette papers since, um, Nixon was president ...

[Griff]

Jim,
I ran across this kit and wondering what your opinion of it might be. It looks very complete and rather simple to use. I also wonder if you've ever used a lubed, wool wad between the ball & powder with the cartridges you make.

Is there a link to the Kit? I am not seeing one.

Color me pink! Can't believe I neglect to include it! Cartridge Kits. This is a .36 caliber kit, but they have several sizes available.

[JimT]

Jim,
I ran across this kit and wondering what your opinion of it might be. It looks very complete and rather simple to use. I also wonder if you've ever used a lubed, wool wad between the ball & powder with the cartridges you make.

Is there a link to the Kit? I am not seeing one.

Color me pink! Can't believe I neglect to include it! Cartridge Kits. This is a .36 caliber kit, but they have several sizes available.

Thanks. I've not seen that one before. I have seen some made of aluminum, but the only one I have experience with is the one from Guns of the West. https://gunsoftheweststore.com/collecti ... ridge-kits

I have never used any kind of wad. Years ago when hunting with a copy of the 1858 Remington .44 I just loaded powder, ball and Crisco.

I like the paper cutter to cut the round pieces. I need one of those!

[Bill in Oregon]

Jim, what is the diameter of the paper rounds for the .44 cartridges? I see 5/8 and 1-inch circle punches on the Zon for $8 or so ...

[JimT]

Jim, what is the diameter of the paper rounds for the .44 cartridges? I see 5/8 and 1-inch circle punches on the Zon for $8 or so ...

I think they are 5/8" ... or maybe 3/4" ... either one would work I believe.

EDIT - Went out to the shop and measured ... the ones with the Kit are 3/4". I ordered a 5/8" cutter and I believe it will work just fine.

[Rube Burrows]

I use Dustin's kit as well. Good stuff.

[Bill in Oregon]

Thanks Jim. I went with the penny-sized 3/4 inch. Prolly not a nickel's worth of difference.

[JimT]

Thanks Jim. I went with the penny-sized 3/4 inch. Prolly not a nickel's worth of difference.

The 5/8" works great with the .36 caliber. For the .44 caliber you have to get them on the die almost perfectly. The 3/4" is the best one to use if you are making cartridges for the .44 or for both the .44 and the .36. With a little care the 5/8" will work with the .44 ...

[Griff]

My biggest concern is any ash left in the chamber. While at a match, I start reloading almost as soon as I finish a stage. Usually only takes me 3-4 shooters to charge both pistols for the next stage. As I'm charging my pistols, I'm also watch those 3-4 shooters empty their brass from their pistols an making sure their rifle & shotgun are empty. Means I'm able to help the posse out with chores, and don't delay the loading table at all. I can cap just about as fast as I can load cartridges in a SAA.