All with 357 Magnum?

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wvfarrier
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All with 357 Magnum?

Post by wvfarrier »

Ok, so my google-fu is failing me today. As a serious lover of the 357 magnum I am curious to know. What animals have been successfully taken with 357 magnum.
I know that I have used it for turkey, deer, coyote, feral dogs and black bear but what else?
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by AmBraCol »

Back in the day they took pretty much every big game species in North America with it. As I recall, to include grizzly/brown bear, moose, caribou, elk, bighorn sheep, etc.
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by JimT »

1935 
Major Douglas Wesson
.357 Magnum S&W revolver

Antelope - 200 yards (2 shots)

Elk - 130 yards (1 shot)

Moose - 100 yards (1 shot)

Grizzly Bear - 135 yards (1 shot)

The Antelope was hit the first time at 125 yards. It ran, stopped and was shot the second time at 200 yards. The second shot killed it.

The Bull Elk was killed with one shot through the lungs.

The Moose was shot in the chest near the base of the neck. It cut the 2nd rib, passed through both lungs, sheared the 8th rib on the off side and stopped just under the hide. No follow-up shot was required.

These animals were taken on a Fall hunt in Wyoming, near the West entrance of Yellowstone Park. The Grizzly was taken later in Canada.

The above game was taken using factory loads which were a 158 gr. bullet at 1515 fps from an 8 3/4" barreled S&W producing 812 ft. lbs of muzzle energy. (S&W later shortened the barrels to 8 3/8" as we have today)

To those who criticized, the Major replied that they "..had not the slightest conception of what we have accomplished in ballistics.." - a statement that still applies today.
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by Rockrat »

IIRC, he also took a polar bear with the 357. Also, the loads back then were hotter than today. IIRC, the pressures were around 40K psi
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by wvfarrier »

If I recall correctly....didnt someone take a walrus as well??
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by Blaine »

When it was first brought out, they took it to Africa with great success. Those first .357 rounds were a bit more stout than the factory stuff these days, not counting the speciality loads available.

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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by Grizz »

wvfarrier wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:24 am If I recall correctly....didnt someone take a walrus as well??
if someone did, someone might not anyone to know about it, depending
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by crs »

Though not documented in the sporting magazines, I seem to remember some humans taken with the 357 Mag revolvers. No doubt some criminals also.
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by Ray »

wvfarrier wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:24 am If I recall correctly....didnt someone take a walrus as well??
https://www.levergunscommunity.org/view ... hp?t=72134
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by wvfarrier »

Wow! Thank you, that was a great read.
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by AJMD429 »

.
This guy is a fan...

https://youtu.be/B5-Zq0iqNGM

(...I like his video cuz he uses a Marbles Bullseye sight on his Winnie 1892. :D )
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by FLINT »

AJMD429 wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:27 am .
This guy is a fan...

https://youtu.be/B5-Zq0iqNGM

(...I like his video cuz he uses a Marbles Bullseye sight on his Winnie 1892. :D )
I've seen a few of his videos and he has to be pretty cool since his deer hunting rifle is a Marlin 336 in 35 rem.
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by TraderVic »

Great thread ! I have two Ruger 357 revolvers, both stainless, one 3", one 6". I do not have a 357 lever gun and am patiently waiting for RugerMarlin to reintroduce the 1894..
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by Paul105 »

Might be of interest. Got a Labradar chrono a while back. Was doing familiarization and got the following results.

Labradar Muzzle Velocity (familiarization run)
60 Deg F
S&W M66-8 2.75" .357 Mag

Caution - 200gr loads should be approached with caution - this bullet is not longer avail from Leadheads (out of business owner passed away).

130gr Fed Hydra-Shok JHP "Personal Defense" PD357HS2 H …….. 1,416 fps avg (84 fps ES) -- two rounds
140gr Underwood Xtreme Penetrator (Philips head mono metal).. 1,422 fps avg ( 5 fps ES) -- two rounds
158gr Horn Xtp - 15.0gr A2400 Std small pistol, new Starline...… 1,316 fps avg (49 fps ES) -- six rounds
165gr CSWCGC (358156) - 13.0gr A2400 New Starline         ...… 1,180 fps avg (49 fps ES) -- six rounds
180gr Buff Bore …………………………………………………………………………….. 1,312 fps avg ( 6 fps ES) -- two rounds
185gr LFNGC (Beartooth), 15.0gr Lil'Gun, CCI 400 New Starline.. 1,228 fps avg (14 fps ES) – two rounds
200gr WLNGC (leadheads), 13.4gr H110, Fed 205, New Starline.. 1,102 fps avg ( 4 fps ES) – two rounds
200gr WLNGC (leadheads), 14.4gr H110, Fed 205, New Starline.. 1,155 fps avg ( 2 fps ES) – two rounds
(purported to be the “Doubletap” load info)
200gr WLNGC (leadheads) handload with Lil Gun ………………………. 1,266 fps avg ( 2 fps ES) -- two rounds
Load data not given -- maybe too much of a good thing. Spent cases fell from chambers, and no obvious signs of over pressure. Recoil was heavy. Don't even know if this stabilizes.

If even needed, I would limit useage of the 180, 185, and 200gr loads in J & K Frame guns

Also ran two Buff Bore 180s thru 16" Rossi M92 carbine ……………. 1,894 fps avg ( 6 fps ES) -- two rounds

FWIW,

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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by jnyork »

wvfarrier wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 8:44 am Ok, so my google-fu is failing me today. As a serious lover of the 357 magnum I am curious to know. What animals have been successfully taken with 357 magnum.
I know that I have used it for turkey, deer, coyote, feral dogs and black bear but what else?

Chickens, pigs, turkeys and rams. Works great!! :D

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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by CowboyTutt »

Paul105, if no one makes a similar bullet to your 200 grain Lead Heads bullet, it behooves you to have bullet molds made so someone can cast it and the bullet design is not lost. You can measure the dimensions yourself and write them down on a napkin and send them to Tom at Accurate Molds, or in a pinch, send him the actual bullets and he will do his best with calipers to reproduce the bullet. His measuring techniques are no better than yours though, and it will speed up the mold making process if you can give him the dimensions and he can make very minor corrections. I really hate to see another good bullet design disappear and I'm currently involved in making a new one and resurrecting another one in .452 Colt and of course, a very new one in .303 Brit. It's worth taking the time to do, and Tom's prices are very reasonable. -Tutt
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by Paul105 »

Tut: I don't plan on using enough of these to warrant having a mold made:

Cast Performance (Grizzly Cartridge) offers the 200gr WLNGC in .357 very similar if not identical to the Leadheads version
.
Cast Performance:
.
Image
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Leadheads - far left:
.
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by wvfarrier »

How are you stabilizing a 200gr?
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by Paul105 »

Easily over looked in the verbiage above -- "Don't even know if this stabilizes". Bought these to try in my .357 Maximum but got sidetracked. One of these days will load some up in the 357 and shoot at 50 yds looking for "clean" holes.

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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by CowboyTutt »

Paul, I agree the two bullets look identical so no need for a mold if they are still available somewhere. When you get around to testing them, maybe shoot them at least to 100 yards and preferably further if you can, to look for keyholing. Obviously just do what you can do and what you want to do, but you would be furthering the cause of the .357 Magnum in a meaningful way and many here, not just me, I bet would find it interesting. If there are any takers who want to purchase the bullets from Cast Performance, they could do it too.

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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by wvfarrier »

I watched a Jerry Miculek video where he was discussing the use of a 230 grain projectile but I didnt catch what brand or.design
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by Ray »

wvfarrier wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 5:51 am I watched a Jerry Miculek video where he was discussing the use of a 230 grain projectile but I didnt catch what brand or.design
several commercial casters offer these.....

https://www.badmanbullets.com/OnlineSto ... in-Qty-500
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by Grizz »

Ray wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:20 am
wvfarrier wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 5:51 am I watched a Jerry Miculek video where he was discussing the use of a 230 grain projectile but I didnt catch what brand or.design
several commercial casters offer these.....

https://www.badmanbullets.com/OnlineSto ... in-Qty-500
I am curious about the velocity these are loaded to, and wondering about the forcing cone, if it is modified some way, or does it just swage the bullet, by forcing it. if someone knows . . . thanks
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by wvfarrier »

Those would be fearsome as a woods round if you.could stabilize them
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by Grizz »

wvfarrier wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:56 am Those would be fearsome as a woods round if you.could stabilize them
I read the reviews of them and all the users i saw were shooting 44 spcl. need more info! the bowling pin guys must have all the info, hope one will chime in . . .
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by wvfarrier »

For what its worth I found this using google-fu

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showth ... 230-gr-357
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by wvfarrier »

Another one. It seems that Blue Dot is the "go to" for those heavies

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/6337 ... pin-loads/
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by AJMD429 »

.
It seems like those kind of loads are almost like little miniature shotgun slug loads, attempting to use relatively low pressure to lunch relatively heavy for caliber projectiles at moderate velocities.

Having not used Red Dot or blue dot, I'm curious as to whether the Blue Dot powder is useful as a shotshell powder, and if so if it is used for slugs?
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by Rockrat »

I use to use Blue Dot for my round ball loads in my 12 ga. I think it and Unique are used often in slug loads.
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by JimT »

Rockrat wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:22 pm I use to use Blue Dot for my round ball loads in my 12 ga. I think it and Unique are used often in slug loads.
I always used Unique.
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by Twodot »

here is what Alliant has to say about Blue Dot:

"Principal Purpose: Magnum shotshell loads, 10, 12, 16, 20 and 28 ga.
Secondary Uses: Magnum handgun loads"

..
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

The official specs for this and several other cartridges was dropped considerably in the 1990s. Some of us kept right on shooting loads that are not within the limits in the manuals today.

I still shoot the .357 loaded hot but I don’t beat up J frames with those loads. I was shooting 158 gr XTPs over a jigger full of H110 yesterday in my Smith Mountain Gun and a long barreled Smith 28 with enjoyable results.

I like to think about K frames like Bill Jordan did. They are .38s that you can occasionally shoot .357 through.
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by OldWin »

I have too many .357s. Well......not really. :D
The biggest issue is they run the gamut in regards to strength. From a rifle, to Ks, to a Colt SAA, and an early Flat top BH, and GP100.
I don't want 15 different loads in the same cartridge, so for general shooting and field use I tend to keep it light. I load these on my Dillon with a 158gr RN plated bullet over 6.5gr of Unique. This gives 950fps out of a 4" barrel revolver and around 1300 and change from a 20" carbine. This is a great practice and "dub" around load that also has a little field utility. Relatively cheap, but after I exhaust my supply of plated, I'm going to give coated cast a try. I'm trying to offset some of the increase in powder and primer cost.
Like Scott, for heavier loads, I use 158gr.XTPs most of the time. I've always used 2400, but may branch out to H110 in the future. I only use the 2400 in 357 and its hard to get around here.
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by JimT »

Scott Tschirhart wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:35 am I like to think about K frames like Bill Jordan did. They are .38s that you can occasionally shoot .357 through.
I have helped loosen up a Model 19 or two in the past. :roll:
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

JimT wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:20 am
Scott Tschirhart wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:35 am I like to think about K frames like Bill Jordan did. They are .38s that you can occasionally shoot .357 through.
I have helped loosen up a Model 19 or two in the past. :roll:
Believe it or not, when the government was paying for all of my ammo, I shot an issued 686 till it had to be sent back to Smith for repairs.
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by JimT »

Scott Tschirhart wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 5:30 pm
JimT wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:20 am
Scott Tschirhart wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:35 am I like to think about K frames like Bill Jordan did. They are .38s that you can occasionally shoot .357 through.
I have helped loosen up a Model 19 or two in the past. :roll:
Believe it or not, when the government was paying for all of my ammo, I shot an issued 686 till it had to be sent back to Smith for repairs.
I can believe that. My Dad put so much ammo through his 586 it was rebuilt quit a few times - tightened up the crane and endshake several times ... new trigger twice ... new hammer twice .... new barrel once ... he shot that gun and almost no other for over 10 years ... won lots of matches when he was in Corrections ... wore that gun down several times and all with cast bullets and mid-range loads.
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Jim,

If you shoot one gun that much, you generally get to be pretty good with it.
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by mickbr »

Just large hogs for me. I do subsonic shooting at times and even got light speer 135gn gold dots and rem 125 golden sabres meant for the 38special to work. these are two of the few bullets that will expand down to 900fps impact or so. Carefully set up shots over baits of course. For regular ground shooting I found 158xtp at magnum speeds took them all reasonable angles. Saw some tests of the buffalo bore hardcasts on youtube penetrating about a foot of stacked pine boards. I"d guess that reaches the heart or brain of almost anything, outside of Africa anyway.
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Re: All with 357 Magnum?

Post by wvfarrier »

gunsamrevolveraficianado on youtube tests a lot of 38s and 357s. His videos are worth watching
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