1886 Loading Gate

[Tallboy]

I got a new Chiappa 1886, and I notice the loading gate will only open halfway sometimes. At first... I thought it was a defect, but now I notice it ALWAYS happens if...

1. The lever is cocked
2. The hammer is fully cocked OR the hammer is let down to HALF cock

If I let the hammer down slowly and fully by pulling the trigger until it hits the firing pin, THEN the loading gate opens again.

From this point, I can cock the hammer in any of the 3 positions and the loading gate works UNTIL I repeat the cycle by cocking it, then the loading gate only opens half way again

Is this a safety feature? Or an actual defect of sort...

[CowboyTutt]

Um, I would say defect, but will let others with an actual 1886 chime in first. Even a "Sixgun Special" Rossi 92 doesn't do that! Same design just smaller.

-Tutt

[vancelw]

I got a new Chiappa 1886, and I notice the loading gate will only open halfway sometimes. At first... I thought it was a defect, but now I notice it ALWAYS happens if...

1. The lever is cocked
2. The hammer is fully cocked OR the hammer is let down to HALF cock

If I let the hammer down slowly and fully by pulling the trigger until it hits the firing pin, THEN the loading gate opens again.

From this point, I can cock the hammer in any of the 3 positions and the loading gate works UNTIL I repeat the cycle by cocking it, then the loading gate only opens half way again

Is this a safety feature? Or an actual defect of sort...

If the lever is not fully closed the loading gate won't function, because the internal parts are not lined up correctly to allow you to push a round into the tube. In other words, when the lever is not fully closed, the rifle is in the process of moving a round from the tube to the chamber.

On my Browning 1886, the loading gate will open with the hammer in any position

[Tallboy]

I got a new Chiappa 1886, and I notice the loading gate will only open halfway sometimes. At first... I thought it was a defect, but now I notice it ALWAYS happens if...

1. The lever is cocked
2. The hammer is fully cocked OR the hammer is let down to HALF cock

If I let the hammer down slowly and fully by pulling the trigger until it hits the firing pin, THEN the loading gate opens again.

From this point, I can cock the hammer in any of the 3 positions and the loading gate works UNTIL I repeat the cycle by cocking it, then the loading gate only opens half way again

Is this a safety feature? Or an actual defect of sort...

If the lever is not fully closed the loading gate won't function, because the internal parts are not lined up correctly to allow you to push a round into the tube. In other words, when the lever is not fully closed, the rifle is in the process of moving a round from the tube to the chamber.

On my Browning 1886, the loading gate will open with the hammer in any position

I know it won't close if the lever is open, I'm 100% certain its VERY seated/closed. When I said that, I meant the lever is open and then closed.

If the lever is cocked and then fully closed, the loading gate will only halfway open. Then, WITHOUT touching the lever, if the hammer is moved to half cocked it will still NOT open. Then, if the lever is let down to the full down position, then the gate WILL open. Notice that the lever has not moved, and it has nothing to do with it not being closed all the way.

From that ^ above state, where the gate now opens, the hammer can be positioned in any 3 spots and it will open easily (down, half cocked, cocked). Once the hammer is in the down position at least one time, then from that point onwards it opens in any position.

Then... if one cocks the lever and closes it again, it goes back to the start, where the loading gate will not open all the way until the hammer is fired

I thought if it were a defect it would only do this "some" times, or at random times (like if it were a burr)

But this is 100% reproduceable every time, I've tried it about 30 different ways and it never misses a beat, thats why I was thinking its intentional or some kind of safety feature that won't let you load it if the rifle has been cocked

=============

If you have a Chiappa 1886 I'd love to see if you can reproduce it. Simply....

1. Cock the gun fully and close the lever. The hammer should be fully cocked
2. Try to open the loading gate and see if it opens all the way

[vancelw]

If you have a Chiappa 1886 I'd love to see if you can reproduce it. Simply....

1. Cock the gun fully and close the lever. The hammer should be fully cocked
2. Try to open the loading gate and see if it opens all the way

Wow.

RTFM

[Tallboy]

Ah yes, the stupid and stereotypical holier than though RTFM answer.

That paragraph makes no mention of an actual safety mechanism, it looks more like genetic “safe firearm principles” advice.

on top of that, I called chiappa support and the guy had NO idea what could cause that. he said it was a burr and i need to ship it to them.

also… that’s not all. i called the literal chiappa gunsmith who also said it might be internal damage and the gate should always open if the lever is closed

STILL that’s not all. i had thr action worked on by a lever gun gunsmith to reduce the trigger and he also was baffled what could cause that

bare in mind this is before i actually had the rifle in my hand for longer than 3 mins (california 10 day wait).

so i made this thread after i actually got it in my hand and realized the exact mechanics of it.

can you imagine all of those 3 people never once thinking to mention something as obvious as a second loading gate safety?

that’s why i made the thread because if it were an actual safety you’d think someone by now would have just mentioned that.

[crs]

been shooting my Miroku/Winchester 1886 .45-90 TD for over 10 years and never noticed any odd behavior.
Also never played with it to try to get it to malfunction.

[vancelw]

Ah yes, the stupid and stereotypical holier than though RTFM answer.

That paragraph makes no mention of an actual safety mechanism, it looks more like genetic “safe firearm principles” advice.

on top of that, I called chiappa support and the guy had NO idea what could cause that. he said it was a burr and i need to ship it to them.

also… that’s not all. i called the literal chiappa gunsmith who also said it might be internal damage and the gate should always open if the lever is closed

I think you have this place confused with Facebook, where the average responder has very little real life knowledge.
You also seem unaware of the way you word your posts.

You've already been given an answer from the literal (actual?) Chiappa gunsmith.

The manual specifically states that the hammer must be lowered, in the loading section of the manual, not the safety section.

Winchester and Brownings don't act the way yours is acting.

You have to decide whether to believe the manual or to believe your gunsmith.

[Tallboy]

Ah yes, the stupid and stereotypical holier than though RTFM answer.

That paragraph makes no mention of an actual safety mechanism, it looks more like genetic “safe firearm principles” advice.

on top of that, I called chiappa support and the guy had NO idea what could cause that. he said it was a burr and i need to ship it to them.

also… that’s not all. i called the literal chiappa gunsmith who also said it might be internal damage and the gate should always open if the lever is closed

I think you have this place confused with Facebook, where the average responder has very little real life knowledge.
You also seem unaware of the way you word your posts.

You've already been given an answer from the literal (actual?) Chiappa gunsmith.

The manual specifically states that the hammer must be lowered, in the loading section of the manual, not the safety section.

Winchester and Brownings don't act the way yours is acting.

You have to decide whether to believe the manual or to believe your gunsmith.

I am confusing absolutely nothing. Quite honestly I don't even know what thoughts are going through your head to make you reply the way you are.

My problem with pedantic people such as what you're doing is you don't actually know any of the important details that are irrelevant for this post, so they were intentionally left out to focus on the question. So, instead of just simply answering the question with a simple (friendly) answer, or the best of your knowledge... you have to basically attempt to assert that what I'm doing, saying, thinking is incorrect. And that just makes you the fool, because how can you possibly, with certainty, assert ANYTHING unless you know 100% of the details.

For example.... logic would dictate all of the following variables could affect the outcome of my question...

1. I don't know how many main gunsmiths Chiappa has, but I googled and found a gunsmith associated with Chiappa. At first I called him and thought it was just "a" gunsmith who worked on Chiappa firearms, but then he mentioned he goes to their factory and works on new rifles with them, so I would certainly call that a "Chiappa gunsmith." Perhaps the gunsmith only works on their non-lever guns, and never mentioned to me they aren't his specialty (although it certainly seemed like it)

2. The support person could have been new, and even though they work for Chiappa they just had no idea. You also bolded the part where he said "its a burr and to ship it to him" but you didnt bold the more important part where he said "I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THAT COULD BE"

So, given all this information, it is beyond reasonable in my mind to ASK a LEVER GUN FORUM about my LEVER GUN before blindly shipping off a gun which will take weeks to return, off a support person who didn't know... a gunsmith who ULTIMATELY DIDNT KNOW and said what it MIGHT be... and a 3rd gunsmith who never even noticed the issue to begin with, and hadn't heard of anything like that on an 1886.

It could very well be an actual safety... the manual and the consistency/reproducibility of it would hint at this being true.

On the other hand, it could be a defect, ALSO considering the manual makes no mention of an actual safety, theres literally zero about it online anywhere, and 3 very reputable gun people have no idea which basically adds solid evidence that perhaps it's a defect.

So given ALL this information, why would I go ship a firearm off without at the very least asking.., given that its the weekend and I can't call any of those 3 sources above with my (new) knowledge until Monday

Yet here you are giving me shite for asking, telling me I'm confused, and being a dick.

[44shooter]

That excerpt from the manual literally says that the hammer must not be cocked and to lower it before the magazine can be loaded. It seems the rifle is functioning as intended by the factory although I don’t know why nor how it would be different from a Winchester/Browning. The fact that company personnel you spoke with do not know this does not mean there’s an anomaly.

[Grizz]

That excerpt from the manual literally says that the hammer must not be cocked and to lower it before the magazine can be loaded. It seems the rifle is functioning as intended by the factory although I don’t know why nor how it would be different from a Winchester/Browning. The fact that company personnel you spoke with do not know this does not mean there’s an anomaly.

slowly lower the hammer down on the primer of the chambered round so you can top off the magazine. Eh?

that sounds like a life threatening practice to me. unless that firearm has hammer block safety. is that the case?

[Tallboy]

That excerpt from the manual literally says that the hammer must not be cocked and to lower it before the magazine can be loaded. It seems the rifle is functioning as intended by the factory although I don’t know why nor how it would be different from a Winchester/Browning. The fact that company personnel you spoke with do not know this does not mean there’s an anomaly.

slowly lower the hammer down on the primer of the chambered round so you can top off the magazine. Eh?

that sounds like a life threatening practice to me. unless that firearm has hammer block safety. is that the case?

In this case, it is impossible for the rifle I have to do that, that is why it's so bizarre to me that it would be a safety!

The common sense thing would be... IF it's a safety, at the very least, it should allow loading when the hammer is lowered to half cock. But in this case, the gate still will not open.

It's ONLY when you lower the hammer onto a live round that you can now top off the magazine, and the loading gate will open.

Why would a safety be designed as such?

[JimT]

If you look at the Owners Manual .. on page 29 is an "Exploded View" for the 1886. It shows all the parts, numbers and names them. There is no "safety" nor any kind of part that would keep the loading gate from opening like you describe. Here is a screen capture of part of the view ..

1886.JPG

I have never messed with one but from quite a few people 5 or 6 years back when the Chiappa's started showing up, there were a lot of complaints about rough internals that needed to be refinished for the gun to work properly.

Don't try to overthink this thing. If it ain't working properly, either send it back to the factory for them to fix the issue, or send it to good gunsmith for him to fix it, or tear it apart and do it yourself. I would do the latter but that's me. They are kinda complicated but if you want to tear it down, here is a "how to" that I wrote for the 1892 Rossi which is close to the 1886 ...

https://leverguns.com/articles/taylor/field_strip.htm

Good luck!

[vancelw]

Yet here you are giving me shite for asking, telling me I'm confused, and being a dick.

You have asked for advise from multiple sources, which all seem to give you the same advise.
You don't like that advice, so you keep asking and asking.
You admit to leaving out details, I suppose simply so you can be argumentative.
You WERE given friendly answers, but you keep adding "details" so it seems that whatever information you were given was incorrect.

Feel free to add me to your "foe" list. I see a trend in your threads.

[AJMD429]

.
No dog in the fight for me (didn't know it would become a fight), and SADLY I don't own an 1886...

but

it looks like two possibilities:

1. The issue is a design feature intentionally set up that way. If so, it is strange and a poor reflection on the company that their various representatives don't know about it.

2. The issue is due to something sticking that is the problem. If so, it is not surprising these days, but is also a poor reflection on the quality of production.

I don't see anything in the parts diagram that would mechanically allow the not-fully-down hammer to prevent loading-gate opening, although certainly the lever not being fully closed would stop it. But I'm no gunsmith. The wording of the manual does look like they are saying 'must' instead of 'should' which seems to indicate the issue may be by design. But the writers of gun instruction manuals aren't usually cunning linguists.

The REAL problem is that I don't own an 1886. It's all about ME....

[Tallboy]

Some updates to this thread considering it was bumped.

I called the lead person at Chiappa USA, he had no idea. He seemed kind of clueless how Chiappa works, because he said "maybe its a new feature they added in 2022 and we just didn't know"..... seems kind of late in the game to say something like that considering it's November. You'd think if someone introduced a new safety, they would be first to know about it.

He said I can ship it to them and it will take like 5 months to look at........ or I can do it myself, which is what I will probably do.

I looked at it the other day in very bright sunlight and it is very clearly some kind of arm that pops down the very second the hammer closes all the way. I can see the shaft of the arm through the half open loading gate, and only when the firing pin moves the last 2cm will the arm drop. It makes a very noticeable/predictable sound as well.

The guy on the phone said it had to be a defect, as his 2022 model in his hands didn't do it, but he had no further suggestsions other than sending it in and waiting many months. Kind of ridiculous this situation, and hyper annoying.

So now I need to disassemble it, i just havent had time yet as Ive heard its quite a beast and takes a lot of hours the first time doing it.

[JimT]

So now I need to disassemble it, i just havent had time yet as Ive heard its quite a beast and takes a lot of hours the first time doing it.

It's not all that bad if you have some experience with various guns. But... go slow .. take pictures of how it looks before you take it apart .. be careful to not lay anything where it might fall off the table/workbench ... lay the screws out so that you know where they go back .. etc. etc. ... I am sure you probably know all this but am just hoping to remind you.

[Griff]

I've read down this thread and just now realized that other'n removing the magazine cap to clean inside, I've never disassembled my Browning 1886 in the 36 years I've had it! I've taken apart nearly every firearm I own, but the 1886 & Rem 700 have escaped that indignity! But, I've never shot BP thru either!

[Grizz]

a note about fitting metal parts. i call it blue-fitting, but it works with black marker too. it helps to find the wear spots, and the irregularities, as in the fit on the guide gun i used this process on. the marker shows the High spots where it wears, and Low spots where it doesn't . . . . machinists can make a perfect flat piece of metal using this process and a scraper. a lathe bed is an example. hope you get your gun going . . . .

†

[coyote nose]

I wouldn't use 1892 instructions for an 1886! Some parts are similar but many are vastly different inside. 1892s are easy, but I was so frustrated getting my 1886 back together, until I found this tutorial. Under " Reassembly" the second line talks about using a rubber band to hold a few parts together and boy was that the key for me! Now yours is a Chiappa and I do not know if they are different from original Winchesters, Winchester repros, etc. or not (the exploded diagram above looks similar to a Winchester), but this tutorial may help anyway.

https://www.leverguns.com/articles/fiel ... ster86.htm

Good luck, it can be frustrating, as always safety first and keep us posted!

[Tallboy]

Awesome link, thank you!