1892 SRC 25-20

[JOG]

This morning I popped into my local gun shop. Kittery Trading Post.
There on the shelf were two nice old levers!
An 1889 Marlin in 44-40 and a Winchester 92 in 25-20!!!!!!!!
Now I haven't seen a model 92 in a few years!
$1,150 on both of them!!
I put a down payment on the Winchester 92.
I don't know much about the mouse caliber 25-20.
I was talking to the so call expert behind the counter.
He said re barrel it to 357 mag.
No pitting with pretty good lands and groves.
My question for the sake of argument is, how hard would it be to re barrel it to 357.
The finish is about 90% gone, but shucking it feels perfect! The stock is in great shape.
Any opinions welcomed on the 92 and the 25-20 round.
The ser.# is 9943XX. It's labeled the date of manufacturer is 1928.

[cj57]

Congrats, those 92 carbines are nice! the 25-20 is fine! buy a set of dies, as the factory ammo is pricy. I sure wouldn't change it

[2ndovc]

Please don't re-barrel it. There aren't many '92, 25-20s out there with even decent bores. Brass can be formed easily, but in normal times it's not that hard to find. It's a great little varmint cartridge and a whole lot more fun than a .357 magnum.

If you buy it and end up not wanting to keep it, it's an easy sell at that price or even a little more from what you are describing.

I don't have one a 92 in .25-20, but I have a little custom Martini that I had re-barreled from .357 to .25-20. This was the first time out trying some new handloads. The cartridge is a tack driver and has accounted for quite a few woodchucks and a couple of skunks.



jb

[GunnyMack]

True ammo is difficult to find, brass is rare as well but boy its great on powder, get a lot of bullets from a pound of lead and it punches beyond its means. Not to mention its just a darn fun caliber!
Pay it off, beg borrow or steal some ammo and shoot it before making a decision on the 375.

[AJMD429]

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Unless it is of modern 'vintage' manufacturer, it would be a problem if anybody shot non-vintage ammunition in it, and the odds of that happening if it's chambered in 357 would be pretty great. I have an 1889 Marlin and 32-20, and even firing 'modern' 32-20 ammunition in it isn't something I do. Partly because there's no need, since I don't depend on that rifle for hunting or protection. If I did hunt with it, I would limit the hunting to appropriate game for that power of cartridge.

The 32-20, 25-20, and 218 Bee are all based on the 32-20 cartridge, necked down to 25 and 22 caliber, respectively. They should all feed through the same actions, so it would be easy to re-do the gun in any of those three chamberings. You could re-line it to the larger 32-20 if the bore is terrible and you want to have something that would reliably feed, and be chambered in an appropriate vintage cartridge for that firearm. 32-20 brass is certainly easier to find than the other two, although I bought several hundred 218-Bee not that long ago. If you limit your shooting to modest pressure loads, and are careful handling the cases, you should be able to get a lot of reloads out of the brass, even though it is notorious for having thin necks that you need to be careful with.

It's not likely a gun you'd be doing a high volume of shooting in anyway, unless you were heavily into vintage rifle and cartridge competition, in which case you know all this stuff already and have figured out how to deal with it.

If the gun is of modern, hardened steel, production (I can't tell you what the threshold dates of manufacture would be for that, but others on the forum here certainly can), then you could have it re-chambered, re-bored, lined, or re-barreled to whatever cartridges the gunsmith doing the job claims they can get to feed. If there are things that already render it not a "collectible" you could consider that, although there aren't a whole lot of cartridges you could likely re-chamber it for that wouldn't require reworking of the internal parts.

I suppose from a practical standpoint, I would consider 32 H&R as a re-chambering option, boring it out to whatever "32 caliber" they use for that (some 32-20 guns get bored to 308 caliber because the bullet selection is better than the 311-313 or whatever 'vintage' specs dictates). The 32 H&R brass is sturdier than 32-20 brass, although being straight wall rather than slightly tapered, from what I hear SOME guns might have slight feeding difficulties. The slightly longer 32 Federal may or may not feed, or be a good option, but I believe the pressure specifications for that cartridge are actually quite high, so again you would want to be sure the gun was up to it in case someone loaded hot Federal loads into it.

Not much need to run the 32 caliber rifles all that hot because their real niche is to cover everything pretty much from 22 WRM to 38 Special in terms of practical application, so if you need something hotter, you can always step up to 357 Magnum chambering in the appropriate firearm.

A big part of the appeal of the 32-20, and it's necked-down sibling cartridges is the very light recoil and very quiet noise level, combined with the ability to shoot cast bullets for very low cost per round.

If the bore is in decent shape, I would try to get hold of some 25-20 ammunition of both cast and jacketed varieties, and after giving the bore a good scrubbing, see how it shoots.

If you get good results, and are patient, you will be able to find cartridges and cases eventually, and as others may have mentioned, the three cartridges can fairly easily be formed from the brass of any one of them.

I already have a vintage 32-20, and a very recent manufacturer one that I can use modern loads in, plus a 218 Bee of recent manufacturer, so if I got a hold of a 25-20, I suppose I would feel obligated to "complete the set" and get dyes and brass and complicate my life further by trying to load for yet another light rifle cartridge. However, if the bore was crummy, particularly if the gun wouldn't shoot very accurately, if research led me to believe I wouldn't be ruining a vintage collectible, I would be highly tempted to get it re-bored and chambered in 32-20, so I would have another vintage gun, but not have to mess with starting to reload for another cartridge. On the other hand, if research led me to believe it was a collectible, but too crummy of a bore to shoot, I'd sell it and move on to something I could shoot (what I appreciate) and let a collector appreciate the gun as-is.

- - -

Whatever you do, forum rules require lots of pictures...!!!

[Ysabel Kid]

Please don't re-barrel it. There aren't many '92, 25-20s out there with even decent bores. Brass can be formed easily, but in normal times it's not that hard to find. It's a great little varmint cartridge and a whole lot more fun than a .357 magnum.

If you buy it and end up not wanting to keep it, it's an easy sell at that price or even a little more from what you are describing.

+ infinity. It would literally be a crime to rebarrel it if the current barrel is in good condition. Factory ammo is hard to find, older and expensive - but the gun is a hoot to shoot. As Jason said, you'll easily make your money on it and then some - probably here - if you decide to sell it.

[Tycer]

Don’t underestimate the 25-20. It’s a nice cartridge. Deer worthy if you’re a good hunter. Everything smaller if you’re not. I can send you some 32-20 starline to neck down. You’ll never wear it out.

[OldWin]

Hey Johnny! Whoa, whoa, put the brakes on there buddy.
I wouldn't hump up that 25. Even with no finish, as long as it is straight and original, with no extra holes or hacks, I would leave it. Especially if it has a good bore and chamber.
The 25-20 can be worked with. The biggest issue is the brass is delicate and easily crushed in the press, but it's not a deal breaker. I suspect you would have to do a fair amount of messing around to get .357 to feed well in an original 92, also. They just weren't made to feed straight wall cartridges.
Remember.......the record holding Jordan buck was shot with a 92 in 25-20. While not DRT by any means, and it wouldn't be my first choice, it HAS been done. But that 25 would be a fantastic small game shooter.

[JFE]

My vote is to keep the 25-20 original and if you want a 357, then buy a late model levergun in 357.

The biggest issue is brass. Factory ammo is quite expensive these days. Brass for the 25-20 is only produced periodically by Winchester. Wait until it’s available and then lay down a heap of it. Starline produce good quality 32-20 brass that can be formed into 25-20. Some use their reloading dies to form cases - it kind of works, but you may experience case losses and frustration. If want to form a few, Redding make an intermediate die to make the process a lot easier.

If you don’t cast your own pills there should be plenty of commercially available options.

It’s a neat cartridge that will grow on you and is ideal for teaching youngsters how to shoot. Think of it as a reloadable 22 Mag but with a bit more bullet weight.

[AJMD429]

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By the way, having Kittery Trading Post as your 'local gun shop' is pretty cool...

I like the comment to think of it as a "reloadable 22 Mag" - only with a bigger top-end. That's kind of like I view the 218 Bee.

[Sixgun]

Hey Johnny be pop da hood master!

As you know, I have extensive experience with the 25-20 in Winchesters, Marlins, and Remingtons and about every Winchester cartridge ever made.....don't let brass or bullets concern you...expensive? ....what, 50 empties for the price of a case of beer that's gone the next day? ....peanuts.....

The biggest concern is the mechanics of the rifle......bore condition is especially important in the smaller calibers....crowns on smaller bore diameter cartridges are commonly wiped clean of rifling due to less wiggle room with the cleaning rod sometimes an inch or more down the tube.....yea...everything is fixable but buying junk guns is like buying a car from "da hood" where they are all polished up clean but the oil has never been changed along with musk oil stains on the back of the head rest.


A little excessive headspace can be corrected with proper loading methods.

DO NOT buy it with the thought of a conversion to another caliber....it will be a white elephant.....guaranteed....talk and recommendations from others is cheap, paying someone to do the work is not....

I would scrounge up a half dozen loaded rounds, pull the bullets, dump the powder, pop out the primers, then reinstall the bullets and run them through to see if they feed. Keep one case without bullet but a live primer to see if it goes off.

Rifles that have little finish can mean two things...they have either been carried a lot and shot little or they have been beat to death....unless you know exactly what you are doing, it's always better to come up with another $500 and buy a higher condition rifle. Like foreign guns that want to be Winchesters, beat up guns are usually junk and always will be junk.

Watch the classified.....I'm moving a like new Marlin 1894 CL in 25-20 that I KNOW works and is accurate that I bought new and still have the box......and that's guaranteed..........was going to let it go at auction where people will beat each other's brains in to get it....last year I offered my buddies here a like new Ruger single action in 41 mag with the box for $300..no takers.....it brought 7 at auction last month.....

In da meantime get yourself a bottle of musk oil repellant and some new tire shine.....put tens of thousands of dollars in your car for fun stuff like 60" speakers and gold plated hubcap spinners, then run 85 octane gas and never do any preventative maintenance... --------006

[JOG]

Thanks for all the feedback gentlemen! Sorry I didn't reply sooner.
I could not seem to log in. I've been trying to for days!
This weekend I'll really give the 92 a thorough going over!
I've read that the 25-20 is made in only about 4% of the 92's.
Believe it or not my gun shop has 25-20 ammo on occasion!
Old Win knows how huge the shop is!
I've seen odd ball calibers on a reg. basic.
The one issue that I don't like with the 92 is that the rear sight was removed.
Someone installed a Marbles tang sight. I'm sure it probably better for eyes over 50.
I could always buy a rear sight and remove the tang sight if I wanted. Everything else appears original
I'll especially look for the lands and groves going all the way to the end of the barrel. Along with a proper crown! {thanks, Six}
I've wanted a late production model 92 in 44-40 with round barrel in the 1,000,000. ser.# range for many years with no luck.
The mechanics of the rifle appear smooth as can be! I wish I had a 25-20 snap cap to check primer hits.
Perhaps the shop will have on. Anyway, your opinions are greatly appreciated!
I was looking for a Winney 94 prewar in 30wcf when I stumbled on the 92.
If I buy it, I will not change out the barrel! I own a Marlin 1894 in 357 already.
I'm still on the fence about this one.
Johnny

[OldWin]

Johnny,
Yeah, its been a while, but I've been down there. I walked in there once and they had 3 1876's. One was an Express.
Six was right, and I forgot to mention it. Check the crown real close with the smaller bores. Check it with a bore light, but also shine a bright light around the crown from an angle, looking for anything uneven. There will certainly be some wear, just make sure it's even. I like to use o e of the old Winchester bore mirrors and checkbit from the breech too.
I should try and get back down there. It's just a long ways for me. Always fun to look around though.

[JOG]

Hey OldWin,
I remember you mentioning that 1876 they had for big money! I'll make sure the crown is even.
I went down on a Sunday and the place was a mob scene!
Usually, a weekday morning is my favorite time to stop in.
That's tough with work. I spotted the 92 behind the counter immediately.
I had to wait 35 minutes for a clerk to help me.
You now have to take a ticket and wait on your number to be helped. {covid Protocall}
I waited for ten guys ahead of me to be helped, all the while wondering if someone else spotted the 92!
It was like playing beat the clock! They had a few unfired Winchester commemoratives for way too much money.
I was really set on a 94 prewar in 30wcf. If I walk in and there is a prewar 30wcf, I might pass on the 92.
Time will tell. I hope all is well up north! Fall will be here before you know it!
Where has Sixgun been hiding! I guess he's probably shacked up with a bottle of Muscatel and his African mistress Shequisa!
A 327 lbs. retired prostitute with a thirst for old white men and cheap wine!
Johnny

[AJMD429]

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Sixer is sometimes unseen for awhile, but is always lurking and reading and plotting (usually in a nice way).

He saw my earlier comment about having a 218 Bee and 32-20 both is the Marlin CL series, and knows my OCD makes me crave having the full 'set', even though I don't have any other 25 caliber guns (the Raven doesn't count), don't need any other 25 caliber guns, and don't even need any other leverguns (except a pointy-bullet one like a Savage 99 or BLR, or an integrally-suppressed, fast-twist 45-70, or... ... ...). Sadly I celebrated my 65th burpday by filing Chapter 11 for the old (insurance-accepting) practice, to try to get back on track and not bury the Direct pay one before it gets started (already a waiting list of patients but can't find staff to hire so we can expand; people don't show up for job interviews half the time, and if you actually hire them they show up for work about 3 out of 4 days), along with having to pick a Medicare plan for myself (like dealing with the devil), so ain't gonna be much gun-buyin' for a year maybe more. Fortunately I got plenty (too many really; unless I live to be 107, I don't think I'll live long enough to have enough time to shoot em all as much as is proper - it's a sin to own a gun and not shoot it).

I hope you get the 25-20 just so you can post on it and I can enjoy it vicariously.

[OldWin]

Haha my man Johnny! You ain't lost it buddy. Old Six still stops in at the PI thread. The problem kids.

Take a number?! No thanks bro. I better stay up here in the woods!
All is good here. Seen some leaves starting to turn. Been building a camp on wheels this summer to haul up to the lot.
There's nothing wrong with a 92 in 25, but a pre war 94 carbine in by God 30wcf is a useful tool up here. Just a lot of utility.
If not down there, have you checked Wildwood (Taylors) in China? He usually has a pile of old Winchesters.

[Oldncrusty]

Lucky you!!! Being able to shop in the KTP. I was able to spend an hour or two in there as a teenager on family vacation forty some years ago. I never got over it. Hope to take one more tour someday.

[JOG]

No, I have not checked Wildwoods . I'll just wait on something to walk into the Trading Post.
Whenever I see an 80-year-old with a rifle case walk up to the trade counter I start to salivate!
The old timers always have the best guns! That's when I start spying to see how much is offered for a vintage firearm.
As soon as the deal is done, I walk back and ask to see it before it's put on the floor for sale.
That's how I picked up my 1982 Marlin 1894 in 357 for $725.00.
The fun is in the hunt! Timing is everything! The shelves are starting to fill up again.
I'll let everybody know if I pick up the 92 or just wait for a 94!
Johnny

[OldWin]

Oh yeah! Now the truth comes out! Johnny's a gun counter vulture!

Well don't feel bad bro. I did that for over 30 years at my buddies little country shop. And full disclosure, I've sent my dad out to do it for me (I got a nice 2nd gen Colt SAA that way), and even stooped so low as to send my wife out to cutsie a vintage Winchester sign out of my buddy.

So..... I don't judge.

[JOG]

Wow! Now that's worse than sniping an old Winchester from an elderly gentleman! Ha Ha!
Ok I would do the same thing! I'm thinking about asking for a part time job just for a firearm connection!
Now my job driving a truck and lifting heavy item all day is about all I can take!

You are correct Old Crusty; the best sporting goods store I've ever been in!
Since I'm off Monday I'll pop in K.T.P. to clean out the barrel of the 92 with a fine-tooth comb.
Johnny