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[JimT]

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[Ray]

Deleted.

[samsi]

Saw the one with "I've only done this once before"...somewhere before? (maybe I was time traveling too) Still cracks me up though.

[piller]

That is going to be funny yesterday.

[gamekeeper]

If any of that really worked you would see my name appear on the passenger list of the Mayflower.......

[JOG]

It's like deja vu all over again!

[Grizz]

if it worked I could have slapped some sense into Eve

[JimT]

if it worked I could have slapped some sense into Eve

Funny.
BUT ...
read the account again.
It was Adam's fault, not Eve's.

[Grizz]

if it worked I could have slapped some sense into Eve

Funny.
BUT ...
read the account again.
It was Adam's fault, not Eve's.

really? the serpent came to Adam with his proposal?

you thought she was innocent? why was she wearing a fig leaf?

why was she judged with death and driven from the garden?

fault is not the same thing as sin

[piller]

Stopping Eve and Adam from sinning then might have just delayed things instead of preventing things.

ANYWAY!

I can think of some things I would like to do with time travel. Witnessing some historical happenings would be fun. I am not suggesting that anyone try to change events, but witness them and give better factual reports.

[JimT]

if it worked I could have slapped some sense into Eve

Funny.
BUT ...
read the account again.
It was Adam's fault, not Eve's.

really? the serpent came to Adam with his proposal?

you thought she was innocent? why was she wearing a fig leaf?

why was she judged with death and driven from the garden?

fault is not the same thing as sin

Genesis 3
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:



23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

No mention of "the woman" being driven out.
Apparently she chose to go with him.

When questioned by God she was the only one who was honest about what happened.
Adam chose to blame God for it all, saying it was God's fault because He gave him the woman.

And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

The man was the one at fault .. Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all mankind ..

Eve was deceived and sinned .. Adam was not deceived and chose purposely .. I Tim. 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and violated the commandment ..

If Adam would have told Eve, "No." things would have been a lot different. The whole mess fell on his shoulders and he chose to side with satan...

[Grizz]

I can't leverage Eve's sin to a no fault divorce. "was deceived" means she believed satan instead of YHWH. deception was her choice, it's on her. that was rebellion on her part, and "the soul that sins shall surely die". I can't extrapolate from the document that Eve chose to leave. She sinned, sin cannot exist in God's presence, so there was no option for her to hang out next to the tree of eternal life. she disqualified herself of her own volition. The fact that the record says that Adam was expelled, without mentioning Eve, in no way indicates that Eve was not expelled for cause. Can't make guesses based on what's not explicit in the narrative. the purpose of the narrative is to reveal to the rest of mankind the consequences of rebelling against our Creator. Once Eve believed satan instead of God, her fate was sealed. Her fig leaf kilt is her acknowledgement that she disobeyed. She doesn't get a pass, regardless which way the finger points.

I agree that Adam dropped the ball. He was equally deceived, he believed satan's deception, he "guessed" that it would be a good thing to know stuff the way YHWH knows stuff. If they had thought about it, and said, let's wait for the LORD and ask HIM about it, there could have been a different outcome. Theoretically. They took something for granted, AND they believed the word of someone they should have not listened to.

Don't we see a lot of that going on all around us? Jesus warned that in the last days that " insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

Deception is how satan kills souls, from the beginning until the Day Jesus returns.

[JimT]

I can't leverage Eve's sin to a no fault divorce. "was deceived" means she believed satan instead of YHWH. deception was her choice, it's on her. that was rebellion on her part, and "the soul that sins shall surely die". I can't extrapolate from the document that Eve chose to leave. She sinned, sin cannot exist in God's presence, so there was no option for her to hang out next to the tree of eternal life. she disqualified herself of her own volition. The fact that the record says that Adam was expelled, without mentioning Eve, in no way indicates that Eve was not expelled for cause. Can't make guesses based on what's not explicit in the narrative. the purpose of the narrative is to reveal to the rest of mankind the consequences of rebelling against our Creator. Once Eve believed satan instead of God, her fate was sealed. Her fig leaf kilt is her acknowledgement that she disobeyed. She doesn't get a pass, regardless which way the finger points.

Adam was plainly the one marked out as the cause of sin and death in the world.
Not Eve.
The Redeemer came through Eve. It was her seed that would crush the serpent's head. Not Adam's.
She did not get a "pass". There is always consequences for our actions.
If we were to grade "sin" (I doubt we can) Adam's sin was MUCH greater than Eve's. She was deceived and then sinned. Her "rebellion" was not like Adam's. She apparently was convinced the serpent was right. Adam knew differently and chose to go with the serpent. He rebellion was one of knowing what was right and choosing against it. It all comes down to Adam. Through one MALE sin entered the world. Not through the female. Religion chooses to side with Adam and blame Eve.
I am not sure where religion got the idea that sin cannot exist in God's presence. He has been in the middle of it since the Fall. Even hell cannot separate someone from His love.

[piller]

Not to try to act as if I know much, but Satan is ultimately to blame because he set the whole situation in motion. Yes, Adam made his choice and tried to shift blame, but Satan set it up. Still, choices and actions do and should have have consequences.

[Blaine]

Apple Pie, anybody?

[JimT]

Not to try to act as if I know much, but Satan is ultimately to blame because he set the whole situation in motion. Yes, Adam made his choice and tried to shift blame, but Satan set it up. Still, choices and actions do and should have have consequences.

Yessir. I am not trying to say there are no consequences for actions. The consequences of Adam's choice has affected all creation. The consequences of my choices have affected a lot more people than just me.

[JimT]

Hey Grizz ... we can take this offline and not clog up the thread. PM sent.

[Grizz]

The Redeemer came through Eve. It was her seed that would crush the serpent's head

do you think that Mary had an egg inseminated by Holy Spirit? I know some people believe that. I do not. I believe that is error, and I don't believe the scripture even suggests it. It is another one of those "religious" things. It leads people to claim that Mary was immaculately conceived, another religious invention.

I was thinking about this this morning. In John 3 in english, greek, and latin, "only begotten" Son of God distinguishes Christ from every other son of God. I find no hint in scripture that Mary contributed her DNA, her egg, to the human body that God created for Himself.

However interesting or not that this may be, the relationship with YHWH is established via the blood which Christ shed when He sacrificed Himself for us, via Faith which He also gives us, and Grace.

What anyone thinks about Eve or Adam is irrelevant from this reality. I'm betting we are all in for surprises when we see Him face to face, and am eternally thankful that we are not saved by our theology.

Thanks for sharing Jim, I've enjoyed considering your view.

[jeepnik]

If you went back in time to “smack some sense into Eve”, you wouldn’t be here to go back in time. Paradox anyone?

[Pitchy]

My question has always been what was Satin doing there to begin with, God had to allow that so sin nature would be in man so we could follow sin or have faith.
Satin talked to God about Job and Job had to make a choice, free will.
And that`s where we are today.

[Ray]

Deleted.

[JimT]

What we have here is the very definition of thread drift......

More like a derailment.
My fault.

[Grizz]

What we have here is the very definition of thread drift......

More like a derailment.
My fault.

Ah, no. that was all on me. I completely spaced out the topic between coffee #1 and coffee #2, and should have come up with a better on-topic quip.

[Grizz]

or, of course, just ignored the whole thing.

[JimT]

or, of course, just ignored the whole thing.

Me too.
Sorry.

[piller]

It could have just been that you started this conversation a week from now, and were just continuing it yesterday.

[JimT]

It could have just been that you started this conversation a week from now, and were just continuing it yesterday.

THAT MUST BE IT!

[Scott Tschirhart]

if it worked I could have slapped some sense into Eve

Funny.
BUT ...
read the account again.
It was Adam's fault, not Eve's.

Adam is responsible. But since we were put here to resolve the angelic conflict, I think they would have screwed up sooner or later. Adam was told before Eve was created:

Genesis 2:15-18 NASBS
[15] Then the LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it. [16] The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; [17] but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." [18] Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him."

[Scott Tschirhart]

Genesis 3:1-3,5-7 NASBS
[1] Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?" [2] The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; [3] but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'" [5] For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." [6] When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; AND SHE GAVE ALSO TO HER HUSBAND WITH HER, AND HE ATE. [7] Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.

Emphasis added. He knew better and did not correct her. Probably because he wasn't paying close attention.

[Scott Tschirhart]

Genesis 3:17-19 NASBS
[17] Then to Adam He said, "BECAUSE YOU HAVE LISTENED TO THE VOICE OF YOUR WIFE, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. [18] "Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; [19] By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return."

Emphasis added. He made a choice between listening to her and listening to God.

[Scott Tschirhart]

My question has always been what was Satin doing there to begin with, God had to allow that so sin nature would be in man so we could follow sin or have faith.
Satin talked to God about Job and Job had to make a choice, free will.
And that`s where we are today.

It makes sense if you believe that we are here to resolve the angelic conflict. Satan's argument is: "How can a loving God condemn his creatures to hell?" God's answer is us. He does not condemn us, he gives us a path to salvation. We make the choice.

[3leggedturtle]

Had thoughts that you were gonna show a Laudanum advertisement!

[wecsoger]

Didn't I see this same thing posted here about three months ago?

(checks watch and calendar)

Nevermind. It's September again.