30-30 case failure

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Machado
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30-30 case failure

#1 Post by Machado » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:58 am

Lost many cases that cracked at the neck and shoulder. Decided to anneal them and see if they'd resist some some. Gun is a 10" TC Contender pistol, load was 28 grains of IMR3031, bullet was RCBS 150 gr FN sized to .309". This particular charge and bullet had given me very satisfactory results for years. Now this. Severed neck went into barrel, pushed it out driving an unsized bullet from muzzle to chamber using dowel and mallet. Has this happened to anybody here?
30-30 cisalhada.jpg
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Re: 30-30 case failure

#2 Post by Grizz » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:52 pm

not exactly. but when I skiff-hunted in alaska my empty 44m cases sometimes fell into the bottom of the boat and sat in saltwater until I got them out and dried off. I quit reloading those cases when I got partial head separations.

not the same as your situation, but perhaps there is some kind of contamination affecting the cases?

are you certain there is not a bulge in the chamber or barrel?

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#3 Post by Machado » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:55 pm

Grizz wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:52 pm
not exactly. but when I skiff-hunted in alaska my empty 44m cases sometimes fell into the bottom of the boat and sat in saltwater until I got them out and dried off. I quit reloading those cases when I got partial head separations.

not the same as your situation, but perhaps there is some kind of contamination affecting the cases?

are you certain there is not a bulge in the chamber or barrel?
No contamination. I'm careful with that. No bulge in the barrel.
Metal fatigue, perhaps?

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#4 Post by Grizz » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:10 pm

just don't know ... do you full length resize every time?

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#5 Post by Machado » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:23 pm

Grizz wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:10 pm
just don't know ... do you full length resize every time?
I do. Mine is the X-Die that doesn't allow cases to grow. But I tumble my cases with refined kerosene added to the media.

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#6 Post by GunnyMack » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:36 pm

Next time just push a bronze brush through from the breech and pull out the seperated piece.

As for where it seperated, that's a head scratcher. Not a head space issue. Did you get this brass from someone or have you had it since new?
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Re: 30-30 case failure

#7 Post by Machado » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:51 pm

GunnyMack wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:36 pm
Next time just push a bronze brush through from the breech and pull out the seperated piece.

As for where it seperated, that's a head scratcher. Not a head space issue. Did you get this brass from someone or have you had it since new?
A friend who inherited a beautiful 94 half-magazine, pistol grip rifle gave 100 reloaded rounds since he has no intention of firing his gun. I pulled all the bullets, discarded the powder, replaced the primer and loaded them again. So far I've fired 70-odd rounds. They ALL cracked. This one gave me a little extra.
By the by, I saved them all because somebody told me I can make 41 magnum cases from 30-30 shells. I find this puzzling.

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#8 Post by ollogger » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:10 pm

I have seen that exact same thing with old cases that I suspected were loaded years ago with corrosive primers
some were old 30wcf, 35-55 & 32-40 & some broke in the die, since then I no longer use old cases
any idea how old your cases are?


ollogger

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#9 Post by Nath » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:21 pm

I once had a case all cracked all over but that was probably me pushing it!
SAM_1081_zps56a625d8.jpg
The above poor photo is of near case head separation.
2012bike003.jpg
This on was new factory ammo!

The brass is quite thin for a 30/30 at the end of the day.

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#10 Post by Machado » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:32 pm

Nath wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:21 pm
I once had a case all cracked all over but that was probably me pushing it!

SAM_1081_zps56a625d8.jpg
The above poor photo is of near case head separation.

2012bike003.jpg
This on was new factory ammo!

The brass is quite thin for a 30/30 at the end of the day.

N.
My feelings also. Quite thin. I've had neck cracks on Sellier & Bellot new factory ammo. Problem is, once burned, twice shy. Every time I pull the trigger on that Contender I wonder if some part of the shell will end somewhere in the barrel.

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#11 Post by Nath » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:47 pm

Numerous sizing don't help.
Personally I resisted any ball type powders. I had a flame out and then back in moment once that was very scary!
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Re: 30-30 case failure

#12 Post by GunnyMack » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:49 pm

It's quite possible the corrosive primer theory is correct.
I've often wondered about humidity and electrolysis. However the least nobel metal should corrode first, a cast bullet could corrode to the case but the lube should prevent that? Could it be the case let go at the base of the bullet- corrosion of the case where gas check was?
I'm spit balling here as I'm not a chemist nor do I play one on tv. :D

I'd not worry about a piece of the case going down the bore, shoot up the remainder of it and toss the brass. Just keep a cleaning rod and bronze brush handy.
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Re: 30-30 case failure

#13 Post by Machado » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:03 pm

GunnyMack wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:49 pm
It's quite possible the corrosive primer theory is correct.
I've often wondered about humidity and electrolysis. However the least nobel metal should corrode first, a cast bullet could corrode to the case but the lube should prevent that? Could it be the case let go at the base of the bullet- corrosion of the case where gas check was?
I'm spit balling here as I'm not a chemist nor do I play one on tv. :D

I'd not worry about a piece of the case going down the bore, shoot up the remainder of it and toss the brass. Just keep a cleaning rod and bronze brush handy.
I thought about galvanic corrosion. I don't know wether it could happen with lead alloys. But I do not stockpile ammunition. I load a month's supply, no more. There is no time for the galvanic reaction - if any - to occur.
I am careful with 30-30 brass. It is not made in my country and finding it is, often times, a matter of serendipity.

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#14 Post by ywaltzucanrknrl » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:34 pm

What is your annealing method? And can you take a picture that shows the break more clearly. From your picture, it almost looks like it separated in a saw tooth pattern.

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#15 Post by Sixgun » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:35 pm

These cases you talk about...the 100 a buddy gave you and you pulled apart......do you know the history of this brass? What's the headstamp?

No matter what kind of a sizing die you use, there will be fatigue. I will get those separations ...just below the neck....after many repeat firings by neck sizing only in the .308. You are getting cracks in all or most of them from that particular lot and have not had that problem before??......that tells me the brass is either very old, work hardened, previously fired with mercuric primers or was somehow chemically altered in storage.......

From what I've read your only having that problem with this one particular lot..if that lot of brass is the only variable the solution is simple....trash it and buy fresh.----6
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Re: 30-30 case failure

#16 Post by Machado » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:42 pm

ollogger wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:10 pm
I have seen that exact same thing with old cases that I suspected were loaded years ago with corrosive primers
some were old 30wcf, 35-55 & 32-40 & some broke in the die, since then I no longer use old cases
any idea how old your cases are?


ollogger
My cases are approximately 40 years old. I replace all primers, dump the powder and use a hard cast bullet instead of the originals.

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#17 Post by Machado » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:48 pm

ywaltzucanrknrl wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:34 pm
What is your annealing method? And can you take a picture that shows the break more clearly. From your picture, it almost looks like it separated in a saw tooth pattern.
My annealing method is highly scientific. I fire up a butane stove, grab the case by the head with a pair of pliers, call my wife (I am color-blind) and ask her to tell me when the case neck and shoulder are a dull red, hold the case in the fire and dump the case into a water can.
I'll shoot a better picture and post it here.

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#18 Post by Machado » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:53 pm

Sixgun wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:35 pm
These cases you talk about...the 100 a buddy gave you and you pulled apart......do you know the history of this brass? What's the headstamp?

No matter what kind of a sizing die you use, there will be fatigue. I will get those separations ...just below the neck....after many repeat firings by neck sizing only in the .308. You are getting cracks in all or most of them from that particular lot and have not had that problem before??......that tells me the brass is either very old, work hardened, previously fired with mercuric primers or was somehow chemically altered in storage.......

From what I've read your only having that problem with this one particular lot..if that lot of brass is the only variable the solution is simple....trash it and buy fresh.----6
I couldn't agree more. But there are no 30-30 cases to be found in my country, so I have to make do with what I've got. If the whole lot turns to manure I'll open up the chamber to 308 NATO and load to 30-30 specifications.

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#19 Post by J Miller » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:15 pm

If that is a standard 30-30 chamber there should not be rifling on the case neck. That neck was in the rifling when the round was fired. You can clearly see the imprinted rifling on it. Are you sure it's not some other chambering?

As for the point of separation, it looks like brass fatigue to me.

As 6 asked, what is the head stamp? Curious because corrosive priming was discontinued in sporting ammo in the '30s. If the brass is older than that, I'd think there might be a problem because of it.
As for lead bullets causing brass to weaken I'd say no. I have way too much ancient factory lead ammo that is perfectly fine, and a lot of my own loads that were put together 40 years ago that show no corrosion.

I've been shooting 30-30s for over 50 years now and have had a bunch of them. I've never had a separation like that, or a case head separation either.
I use ball powders almost 100% of the time. I don't anneal the brass and I'm still shooting cases I bought as loaded ammo back in the mid 1960's.
Said all that because that separation as me stumped.

Hope you get it figured out.
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Re: 30-30 case failure

#20 Post by Sixgun » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:08 pm

OK. Machado.....beginning to understand your dilemma.......availability.........are you allowed to buy brass from the US?

If ya need some help, let me know....I'll get it for ya if you can't order from a business.-----6
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Re: 30-30 case failure

#21 Post by AJMD429 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:58 pm

Joe Miller is right....look at the RIFLING marks on the case neck...!
Screenshot_2019-07-12-00-21-06.png
Are you positive that Contender isn't chambered in 30 Herrett or something like that...? I don't offhand know what a 30-30 would fit in, but AmmoGuide.com has lots of case dimension drawings.
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Re: 30-30 case failure

#22 Post by Rusty » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:04 pm

I had a 14" Contender in .30-30 years ago. 28 gr. of 3031 was my load as well but I was using a Speer 150 gr spire point. I'd say you're doing pretty good to reload brass that's that old. I only neck sized mine but didn't keep the gun long enough to wear out any brass. They closed the range where we were shooting steel silhouettes so I lost interest in the gun.
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Re: 30-30 case failure

#23 Post by claybob86 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:26 am

So you guys don't think the case neck picked up the rifling marks when it separated and entered the barrel? :?:
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Re: 30-30 case failure

#24 Post by Nath » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:48 am

Machado wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:48 pm
ywaltzucanrknrl wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:34 pm
What is your annealing method? And can you take a picture that shows the break more clearly. From your picture, it almost looks like it separated in a saw tooth pattern.
My annealing method is highly scientific. I fire up a butane stove, grab the case by the head with a pair of pliers, call my wife (I am color-blind) and ask her to tell me when the case neck and shoulder are a dull red, hold the case in the fire and dump the case into a water can.
I'll shoot a better picture and post it here.
That's too hot in my book! Hold by fingers until you have to let go. Brass should only go silver looking.
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Re: 30-30 case failure

#25 Post by Machado » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:17 am

J Miller wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:15 pm
If that is a standard 30-30 chamber there should not be rifling on the case neck. That neck was in the rifling when the round was fired. You can clearly see the imprinted rifling on it. Are you sure it's not some other chambering?

As for the point of separation, it looks like brass fatigue to me.

As 6 asked, what is the head stamp? Curious because corrosive priming was discontinued in sporting ammo in the '30s. If the brass is older than that, I'd think there might be a problem because of it.
As for lead bullets causing brass to weaken I'd say no. I have way too much ancient factory lead ammo that is perfectly fine, and a lot of my own loads that were put together 40 years ago that show no corrosion.

I've been shooting 30-30s for over 50 years now and have had a bunch of them. I've never had a separation like that, or a case head separation either.
I use ball powders almost 100% of the time. I don't anneal the brass and I'm still shooting cases I bought as loaded ammo back in the mid 1960's.
Said all that because that separation as me stumped.

Hope you get it figured out.
Joe
That's right, Joe. I could clearly see the neck stuck in the rifling. No corrosive primers, I replaced them all and the ammo dates from the late 50s.

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#26 Post by Machado » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:22 am

Sixgun wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:08 pm
OK. Machado.....beginning to understand your dilemma.......availability.........are you allowed to buy brass from the US?

If ya need some help, let me know....I'll get it for ya if you can't order from a business.-----6
Six, we can after a long and bureaucratic process of approval by the powers that be. However, taxes and charges (levied under the guise of "protection" to domestic industry) can make that an unfeasible proposition.
Thank you for your offer, you're very generous.

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#27 Post by Machado » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:24 am

Nath wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:48 am
Machado wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:48 pm
ywaltzucanrknrl wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:34 pm
What is your annealing method? And can you take a picture that shows the break more clearly. From your picture, it almost looks like it separated in a saw tooth pattern.
My annealing method is highly scientific. I fire up a butane stove, grab the case by the head with a pair of pliers, call my wife (I am color-blind) and ask her to tell me when the case neck and shoulder are a dull red, hold the case in the fire and dump the case into a water can.
I'll shoot a better picture and post it here.
That's too hot in my book! Hold by fingers until you have to let go. Brass should only go silver looking.
Nath, this color thing is puzzling to me. "Deep red", as suggested, implies "shallow red". Both are meaningless to me. I can see silver. Will do it again and see what happens.

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#28 Post by Machado » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:39 am

Six, Joe, the headstamps on the cracked cases read "Winchester 30-30 Win".
20190712_103119.jpg
Both cases in the picture read "W-W Super 30-30 Win". Both have been reloaded 4 times each.
I shoot this gun at metallic silhouette. Recoil is more tolerable than that from full-house 44 magnum.
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Re: 30-30 case failure

#29 Post by Sixgun » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:33 am

Your brass is not that old.....mid seventies at the earliest and up to around 80's---90's...going out of my head.......be found that most brass produced In that time frame is excellent.

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#30 Post by ywaltzucanrknrl » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:06 am

X-dies mystify me, I've never used one and I can't wrap my head around what they do to the case to keep it from lengthening.

On the annealing, if your wife is viewing the case under a bright light or in the daylight, I'm with Nath, you are too hot, but I'm not sure that would cause the break. I just ask because I've heard of some really strange annealing methods. FWIW, I use basically the same process---butane torch and chucked, spinning in a drill, but I do it in pretty much a dark room and back off as soon as I see a sign of a glow. I'm pretty sure of my process as I was taught by a guy who made obsolete brass as part of his business.

I've used a lot of old WW-Super, Super Speed, UMC, Rem UMC and it's hard to tell the history, and some of what I've used has been obviously brittle. I think you just have some old cases that are work hardened, brittle or thin and at the end of their useful life.

I had separations like this years ago with a 222. The brass had been used a lot and I wondered why it didn't break in the normal spot where the web thins near the base. I never did figure it out and just chocked it up to heavily used brass.

Sorry about the availability in your neck of the woods. Is this the only brass you have? Seems like we should crowd fund a shipment of Starline to you----

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#31 Post by AJMD429 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:56 pm

I missed the part about the case neck going into the barrel....

Now that explains the rifling on the neck....buy WHY did the case neck go forward into the barrel...??? I've never seen one do that...!
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Re: 30-30 case failure

#32 Post by Nath » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:33 am

AJMD429 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:56 pm
I missed the part about the case neck going into the barrel....

Now that explains the rifling on the neck....buy WHY did the case neck go forward into the barrel...??? I've never seen one do that...!
Because it went with the bullet sir. Then pressure made the new brass skirt grab the chamber wall causing the bullet to leave.... quickly.
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Re: 30-30 case failure

#33 Post by Griff » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:07 am

How do you store your ammo sir? I ask, because I had a case head separation in a .30-30 that no amount of head scratching could I attribute a cause. However, on inspection of the other cases, I found a "line" around the circumference of each case from where they rubbed up against the "MTM" case they were stored in for several years between loading and firing. Let's just say that they'd made several trips in my car, from home to range and back... the old MTM ammo boxes forced the the ammo in a bullet down, increasing the amount of movement of each round. The new MTM boxes I have now allow the round to sit bullet up.
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Re: 30-30 case failure

#34 Post by Machado » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:51 am

Griff, I found the same thing happened when I kept my ammo in MTM boxes. I now keep it in jars with silica gel sachets inside. The jars have plastic lids. Ditto for prepared cases ready for loading.
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Re: 30-30 case failure

#35 Post by elmo123 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:02 am

I had a new Starline case separate the same way after firing it the first time. That's the only rifle case that I have ever separate like that. I contacted Starline and was told it was probably just a fluke.

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#36 Post by Machado » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:38 am

elmo123, I hope my case was a fluke also. I'll know tomorrow.

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#37 Post by Machado » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:43 am

ywaltzucanrknrl wrote:
Sorry about the availability in your neck of the woods. Is this the only brass you have? Seems like we should crowd fund a shipment of Starline to you----
Thank you for you offer. However, the problem is not buying the cases, but bringing them through customs.

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#38 Post by J Miller » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:05 am

Machado wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:43 am
ywaltzucanrknrl wrote:
Sorry about the availability in your neck of the woods. Is this the only brass you have? Seems like we should crowd fund a shipment of Starline to you----
Thank you for you offer. However, the problem is not buying the cases, but bringing them through customs.
Tie a string through each unprimed case, hang them from a round plate at the top and call them a wind chime.
Think that might work?

Joe
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Re: 30-30 case failure

#39 Post by Machado » Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:19 pm

J Miller wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:05 am
Machado wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:43 am
ywaltzucanrknrl wrote:
Sorry about the availability in your neck of the woods. Is this the only brass you have? Seems like we should crowd fund a shipment of Starline to you----
Thank you for you offer. However, the problem is not buying the cases, but bringing them through customs.
Tie a string through each unprimed case, hang them from a round plate at the top and call them a wind chime.
Think that might work?

Joe
:lol: Brazilian customs officers have the sense of humor of a fasting rattlesnake...

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#40 Post by J Miller » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:21 pm

That was just a light hearted idea :)
But what I find strange is that Rossi and Taurus are in Brazil and make guns of that caliber and yet there is no 30-30 brass available.

One more thought, can you post a pick of a fired case that didn't separate along side of a sized case?

One more more thought; and I hope I remember this right cos it's been many years since I've done it.
Watching for the color change of the brass when annealing the cases has always baffled me. Different light makes it look different. Then I read about using molten lead to anneal the cases.
Once the lead is molten stick the cases in to just past the shoulder and hold them there till the lead will fall off. At that point you're done, set them aside to cool. I do not think I had to dunk them in water, but I may have.

Joe
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Re: 30-30 case failure

#41 Post by Griff » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:43 pm

J Miller wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:21 pm
That was just a light hearted idea :)
But what I find strange is that Rossi and Taurus are in Brazil and make guns of that caliber and yet there is no 30-30 brass available.

One more thought, can you post a pick of a fired case that didn't separate along side of a sized case?

One more more thought; and I hope I remember this right cos it's been many years since I've done it.
Watching for the color change of the brass when annealing the cases has always baffled me. Different light makes it look different. Then I read about using molten lead to anneal the cases.
Once the lead is molten stick the cases in to just past the shoulder and hold them there till the lead will fall off. At that point you're done, set them aside to cool. I do not think I had to dunk them in water, but I may have.

Joe
You don't want them to harden, just the opposite... so no dunking 'em in water, oil or other cooling agent. Cooling the cases off rapidly will harden the brass, making it more brittle, just what you DON'T want.
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Re: 30-30 case failure

#42 Post by Nath » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:25 am

Griff wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:43 pm
J Miller wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:21 pm
That was just a light hearted idea :)
But what I find strange is that Rossi and Taurus are in Brazil and make guns of that caliber and yet there is no 30-30 brass available.

One more thought, can you post a pick of a fired case that didn't separate along side of a sized case?

One more more thought; and I hope I remember this right cos it's been many years since I've done it.
Watching for the color change of the brass when annealing the cases has always baffled me. Different light makes it look different. Then I read about using molten lead to anneal the cases.
Once the lead is molten stick the cases in to just past the shoulder and hold them there till the lead will fall off. At that point you're done, set them aside to cool. I do not think I had to dunk them in water, but I may have.

Joe
You don't want them to harden, just the opposite... so no dunking 'em in water, oil or other cooling agent. Cooling the cases off rapidly will harden the brass, making it more brittle, just what you DON'T want.
Absolutely correct.
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Re: 30-30 case failure

#43 Post by J Miller » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:04 am

Griff, Nath,

Thanks for clearing me up on that. Like I said it's been many years, over 35, since I did any case annealing and I just forgot.

Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#44 Post by 3leggedturtle » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:50 pm

Well, non ferrous metals like copper and brass wont harden by rapid cooling. They are work hardened by being sized in the dies repeatedly. Only reason cast bullets can be hardened by water quenching is because they have tin and antimony in them. Pure lead wont harden either if water quenched.
Machado, if you got a 10 kilogram candle, would customs x-ray it to see if any thing is inside it? I've noticed too that the official types dont have any humor... todd/3leg
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

250 Savage: The Original short action, compact, high velocity cartridge.

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#45 Post by Machado » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:51 pm

3leggedturtle wrote: Machado, if you got a 10 kilogram candle, would customs x-ray it to see if any thing is inside it? I've noticed too that the official types dont have any humor... todd/3leg
Todd, everything inbound and outbound is x-rayed.

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Re: 30-30 case failure

#46 Post by Nath » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:04 am

3leggedturtle wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:50 pm
Well, non ferrous metals like copper and brass wont harden by rapid cooling. They are work hardened by being sized in the dies repeatedly. Only reason cast bullets can be hardened by water quenching is because they have tin and antimony in them. Pure lead wont harden either if water quenched.
Machado, if you got a 10 kilogram candle, would customs x-ray it to see if any thing is inside it? I've noticed too that the official types dont have any humor... todd/3leg
My apologies, I was wrong. Thanks.

N.
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Re: 30-30 case failure

#47 Post by 3leggedturtle » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:03 pm

Nath wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:04 am
3leggedturtle wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:50 pm
Well, non ferrous metals like copper and brass wont harden by rapid cooling. They are work hardened by being sized in the dies repeatedly. Only reason cast bullets can be hardened by water quenching is because they have tin and antimony in them. Pure lead wont harden either if water quenched.
Machado, if you got a 10 kilogram candle, would customs x-ray it to see if any thing is inside it? I've noticed too that the official types dont have any humor... todd/3leg
My apologies, I was wrong. Thanks.

N.
Nath, none needed, it does fly backwards in the face of normal thinking. Right now ammo of all kinds, brass, powder primers and all shooting supplies are in abundace. No one seems to want to stick up or plan ahead. I'm pretty sure almost every one of us here could send/spare 100 cases if it was easy to get them thru the paperwork and customs.
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

250 Savage: The Original short action, compact, high velocity cartridge.

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