Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: Hobie, AmBraCol

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
mikld
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2155
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:46 pm
Location: So. Orygun!

Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#1 Post by mikld » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:12 am

I was looking in another forum and a thread started about the Henry lever gun that now has a loading gate. I stayed out of the ensuing argument and saw this;
The only use a lever action has is nostalgia. Much like a revolver, time has produced better designed firearms. Very few if any arguments can be made why a lever gun or revolver would be beneficial over a newer design gun.
I countered with a quick, simple answer, but know there are many better ways to reply to this idiot. What does the membership here have to say?
Mike
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit...
I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

3leggedturtle
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3306
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:34 am
Location: north of Palacios about 1400 miles

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#2 Post by 3leggedturtle » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:37 am

Never get in a discussion with a close minded troll. Its a waste of time and is like wrestling a pig in mud, you get dirty and the pig enjoys it. YMMV Todd/3leg
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

250 Savage: The Original short action, compact, high velocity cartridge.

User avatar
Pete44ru
Posting leader...
Posts: 10963
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:26 am
Location: Southern New England

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#3 Post by Pete44ru » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:43 am

.

Nostalgia ? ?

Does the troll know that hundreds of thousands new leverguns have been sold since the "newer designs" made their appearance ?

Todd's right, though - there's no arguing with "stupid"...……….


.
Last edited by Pete44ru on Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
IF IN THESE TYMES OF JEOPARDY,
MORTAL PERIL INVADES THY THOUGHT,
TAKE UP THIS TRVSTY PIECE,
TRVST IN THY GOD, AND FEAR THEE NAUGHT.

(The avatar is me, in 1948 ! )

.

HawkCreek
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 243
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:21 pm

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#4 Post by HawkCreek » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:23 am

Technically I suppose they are correct. Autoloaders have come a long way in the last couple decades, they are capable of firing very powerful rounds and of being very accurate and detachable box magazines load much faster than tube magazines. I guess however that I am a nostalgic type as I much prefer levers and bolts to other action types.

One area where the lever has not been surpassed or even equalled by any other repeater is as a saddle gun. No repeating gun period matches the lever for that! I should say scabbard as these days it's more likely a scabbard be attached to a 4 wheeler or be placed behind the seat of a pickup rather than actually strapped to a saddle.

User avatar
mikld
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2155
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:46 pm
Location: So. Orygun!

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#5 Post by mikld » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:29 am

Yep, agree 100%! But I believe there are at least two lever guns that use box/removable magazines? Henry Long Ranger and Browning BLR?
Mike
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit...
I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

Bill in Oregon
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4698
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Alamogordo, NM

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#6 Post by Bill in Oregon » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:43 am

Are framing hammers used only for their "nostalgia" value because we have nail guns? I think not.
If the object is a reliable tool to hunt with, leverguns -- and bolt actions that essentially date to the 1870s -- are still excellent choices.
As to revolvers, does this bozo have access to a .480 semi-auto that he is not telling us about?

User avatar
crs
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2758
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:32 am
Location: Republic of Texas
Contact:

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#7 Post by crs » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:47 am

Trolls are a waste of time.
CRS, NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/

Pisgah
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1486
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:01 pm
Location: SC

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#8 Post by Pisgah » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:16 pm

The best way to respond to someone who posts something like that is -- ignore him.

User avatar
mikld
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2155
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:46 pm
Location: So. Orygun!

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#9 Post by mikld » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:23 pm

I don't believe this guy is a troll, I think he (arrogantly) believe he is correct...
Mike
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit...
I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

Chuck 100 yd
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6904
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:52 pm
Location: Ridgefield WA. USA

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#10 Post by Chuck 100 yd » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:44 pm

Nothing wrong with nostalgia . I own both new and old guns of all designs. When I hunt or just plink for fun,most of the time it’s with a lever gun.

User avatar
gamekeeper
Spambot Zapper
Posts: 11611
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:32 pm
Location: The wrong side of the pond.

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#11 Post by gamekeeper » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:02 pm

I bet this guy has missed a lot of fun along the way, shooting should all be about enjoying the sport, be it with a superdooper plastic wizbang or a flintlock musket. I would just ignore him , over here we'd call him a twat.... :lol:
From his weapons on the open road no man should step one pace away, you don't know for certain when you're out on the road when you might have need of your spear.
Havamal ( Viking collection of common sense )

gcs
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 370
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:42 pm

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#12 Post by gcs » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:31 pm

Never argue with an idiot....they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.... :mrgreen:

User avatar
jeepnik
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 5368
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:39 pm
Location: On the Beach

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#13 Post by jeepnik » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:35 pm

Likely a youngster, maybe not even old enough to purchase a firearm, that believes Matrix and John Wick are real live.
Jeepnik AKA "Old Eyes"
"Go low, go slow and preferrably in the dark"
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it"

Bill in Oregon
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4698
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Alamogordo, NM

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#14 Post by Bill in Oregon » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:43 pm

Gamekeeper, your term has a considerably more, um, colorful meaning here in the Colonies.
:shock: :lol:

User avatar
Pete44ru
Posting leader...
Posts: 10963
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:26 am
Location: Southern New England

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#15 Post by Pete44ru » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:57 pm

mikld wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:29 am
Yep, agree 100%! But I believe there are at least two lever guns that use box/removable magazines? Henry Long Ranger and Browning BLR?
Not to mention the Ruger Model 96/22 & Model 96/44 series, the Winchester Model 88, the Sako Finnewolf, and the Savage Model 99C.

.
IF IN THESE TYMES OF JEOPARDY,
MORTAL PERIL INVADES THY THOUGHT,
TAKE UP THIS TRVSTY PIECE,
TRVST IN THY GOD, AND FEAR THEE NAUGHT.

(The avatar is me, in 1948 ! )

.

User avatar
gamekeeper
Spambot Zapper
Posts: 11611
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:32 pm
Location: The wrong side of the pond.

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#16 Post by gamekeeper » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:45 pm

Bill in Oregon wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:43 pm
Gamekeeper, your term has a considerably more, um, colorful meaning here in the Colonies.
:shock: :lol:
I apologize if our common language or rather use of is sometimes misunderstood, the term is used frequently over here to describe opinionated know it alls.... :lol:
From his weapons on the open road no man should step one pace away, you don't know for certain when you're out on the road when you might have need of your spear.
Havamal ( Viking collection of common sense )

User avatar
jeepnik
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 5368
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:39 pm
Location: On the Beach

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#17 Post by jeepnik » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:59 pm

gamekeeper wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:45 pm
Bill in Oregon wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:43 pm
Gamekeeper, your term has a considerably more, um, colorful meaning here in the Colonies.
:shock: :lol:
I apologize if our common language or rather use of is sometimes misunderstood, the term is used frequently over here to describe opinionated know it alls.... :lol:
Here we sometimes refer to them as twits, nitwits or just plain idiots.
Jeepnik AKA "Old Eyes"
"Go low, go slow and preferrably in the dark"
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it"

Bill in Oregon
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4698
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Alamogordo, NM

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#18 Post by Bill in Oregon » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:44 pm

No harm, no foul, GK. As they say of the U.S. and the U.K., "two countries divided by a common language."
If I were to use twit and twat interchangeably here, I would likely be pilloried by #metoo militants ...

:lol:

octagon
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1365
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: TEXAS

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#19 Post by octagon » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:22 pm

TWIT AND twat. Sounds like a new ice cream flavor :D

wm
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 974
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:03 pm

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#20 Post by wm » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:47 pm

Hunting it self is a homage to nostalgia. For what it costs me in time and money I can buy 10X as much beef, pork, chicken, turkey, etc in the freezer as I will get from a successful hunt. Just the wages I lose out on during the week I take off to deer hunt would pay for many times the amount of venison I bring home.

I guess my comment to that poster would be …… 'yeah ……… so what's your point?'

Wm

User avatar
FWiedner
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8317
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:50 pm
Location: North Texas

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#21 Post by FWiedner » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:20 pm

Nostalgia is a wistful longing or fond memory of the way things used to be done.

My lever guns are ready to go into the field with me and take game. Today.

Newer guns are interesting, but largely irrelevant to my hunting.

Calling a lever gun nostalgic, i.e, obsolete, is like calling an AR-15 a passing fad or a novelty item.

:lol:
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.

User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 24622
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#22 Post by AJMD429 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:49 pm

They do the numerous jobs they were designed for (all-around 'ranch rifle', hunting rifle, home-protection rifle, pistol-companion rifle, 'truck' rifle, and 'hard-times' rifle) better than any other rifle.

However.....

They do NOT beat bolt actions for pinpoint accuracy
They do NOT beat semiautos for volume firepower
They do NOT beat breakopens for simple durability

.....but......SO WHAT....???

If you want a long range varmint rifle or sniper rifle, get a bolt action, if you want to defend against an MS-13 gang attack, or reenact a Cambodian firefight, get a semiauto, and if you want a gun that you can make parts for and keep running for 100 years after an EMP, get a breakopen. But when you want one gun that can do pretty well in all but the most extreme scenarios, and serve extremely well in the more commonplace practical roles, a leveraction will likely serve you well.

I didn't put 'power' as a factor, because between the modern reproduction 1886, 1895, and modern 89s, you can generate the same TKO as any normal (belted magnum cartridge) bolt-action rifle. (50 BMG and its derivatives are in a different class than regular rifles, exceeding their weight by more than regular rifles exceed handguns weight.) Plus the Browning BLR's in 7mm Rem Mag are hardly overshadowed by bolt actions in terms of foot-pounds of energy.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "

Malamute
Member Emeritus
Posts: 3596
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:56 am
Location: Rocky Mts

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#23 Post by Malamute » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:13 am

Doc had a good post above.

Much of the appeal may be nostalgia for many people, but levers are also practical working tools. Nothing else is as easy to carry in hand, simple to operate, and they are very functionally reliable with a variety of loads. They are enough for most uses, one doesnt always require 500 yard match accuracy, or some other things other types offer. Ive carried ARs around in the field, and find them pretty awkward and clunky to carry compared to a Winchester 94 or 1886. I put Ars in the "interesting, but not important" category for my day to day use. I virtually always have a Winchester 94 or similar in my truck and carry them regularly walking. Scoped bolt rifles are next up in usefulness to me, take that for whatever its worth. I could do without any self loaders and not feel at all deprived for what I do in real life. They are fine, just not really relevant in my area of interest or use.

Revolvers also have a very useful place, they have been much easier for me to shoot at higher accuracy levels and consistently so than any centerfire auto, and they also use a variety of loads with reliability. I dont believe some of the old arguments about reliability between autos and revolvers is as valid as in the past, modern self loader pistols can be extremely reliable, but they fill a slightly differently niche. For most of my use, including defensive, I could use only revolvers the rest of my days with no regrets and i dont truly think any real loss of practical effectiveness. I have a g-19 I like OK, but I would be fine with a Smith 19 and Colt D frame 38 for the bases the g-19 covers, and the Smith 19 is much more accurate than the g-19 in mechanical accuracy and in my ability to shoot them well. Moving up in power, there isnt much in practical autos that truly compared to larger caliber revolvers like 44 mag and 45 Colt with heavy loads. Yes, theres some specialty stuff, 45 Super etc, but they arent common or mainstream as far as ammo availability and such, they also still dont come up to the heavier revolver loads. 10mm is more in the heavy 357 to low 41 mag power range. Not really in the heavy category. It compares nicely to 44-40 black powder carbine loads in the data ive seen. YMMV, thats my perspective.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-

Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?

piller
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8209
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:49 pm
Location: South of Dallas

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#24 Post by piller » Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:21 am

Not much to add beyond what has already been said. However, most leveraction firearms are quick to get on target and come in calibers which work well in close quarters such as scrub brush and tight timber. Most modern semi-autos are slightly unwieldy in close quarters, hence the short barrel M4, and are most typically found in 5.56 NATO. 5.56 is a poor choice for most hunting. If the hunter is as accurate as CRS son Colin, then it is different. Few who carry ar AR 15 are as accurate. Even with a 30-30 levergun not always being a tack driver, it is close enough to it, and the 150 or 170 grain bullets vs a 68 grain bullet show quite a large difference in power delivered on target.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost

User avatar
OldWin
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3415
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:38 pm
Location: Maine

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#25 Post by OldWin » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:05 am

Well, there's been a whole lotta people and critters laid down by those nostalgic levers over the years. The biggest reason is cause someone had it with them.
Nothing is easier to take along than a lever action carbine. It is an excellent balance of what an all around effective rifle needs to be.
"Oh Bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered another round.

User avatar
marlinman93
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3964
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#26 Post by marlinman93 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:04 am

I actually agree with the guy who said lever guns aren't as good as most modern designs! There's no doubt at all that a bolt action rifle design can handle much higher pressures, and that it can make life simpler for the shooter or hunter who isn't as experienced, and doesn't want to shoot often or learn his gun/cartridge. Same for the autoloader. If the guy behind the trigger has trouble hitting what he aims at, an autoloader will allow him to blast away until he possibly hits what he's trying to bring down.
Lever guns are more for those who enjoy shooting, and hunting with them. They require the shooter to know his gun and cartridge well enough to know bullet drop, and the capabilities of the gun and himself. But for those who do so it's a superb gun, and gives the shooter or hunter a lot of satisfaction in using it successfully.
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/

User avatar
mikld
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2155
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:46 pm
Location: So. Orygun!

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#27 Post by mikld » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:32 am

I initially got my first lever gun as a "partner" to my 44 Magnum revolvers. I don't hunt anymore, but all the game I was interested in or may come across would be "fair game" for my lever 44 (pigs, deer, bear). In a bad times, riot, society failure, or home protection situation, the only drawback to my 44 Mag. lever gun would be slower to reload than my Garand or AKs, but I certainly would not feel under-gunned, unless I had a Ma Deuce handy...

The "nostalgia" statement was just plain silly. Perhaps made by one who needs to show his "technical knowledge", or some other "ego satisfying" reason. Yes, firearms technology had advanced beyond the lever gun designs, but to down grade a proven gun design (I wouldn't even hazard to guess how many millions of lever guns have been manufactured, or how many are in use) and drop it into a "nostalgia only" category is totally ignorant and just plain silly...
Mike
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit...
I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

Marvin S
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:55 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: Lever gun "nostalgia only"?

#28 Post by Marvin S » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:26 pm

You won’t beat a manually operated action for load versatility. Shooting squib loads to full power, cast to full metal patch the lever gun, revolver, single shot and the like will do it.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 12 guests