TKO HEAVY for CALIBER

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Grizz
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TKO HEAVY for CALIBER

#1 Post by Grizz » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:14 am

found these images lurking in a file folder. this may be of interest to someone, IDK.

three of them compare my 44 revolver load, 950 is my actual velocity, 1000 is my goal, and 1100 has been achieved by a couple of people. In all cases I'm aware of this is in Redhawks. This load is too long for most revolvers to chamber.....

The last one is the velocity that I got shooting 525gr PileDrivers from Blaine's BFR 45/70.

TKO adds momentum to the normal ballistics formula for comparison purposes. The 405 from the revolver at subsonic velocities has the would forensics of original 45/70 loads.

These TKO results have spectacular results penetrating water jugs with hard cast boolits. Of course, attacking water jugs respond somewhat differently than unsuspecting resting water jugs. Which explains why silent stalking is so beneficial.

I have not tried this, (yet), but I suspect that if these same experiments were conducted with dead soft lead, the penetration might be a different story.

a TKO calculator: https://www.n4lcd.com/calc/

It is interesting to plug in other loads, such as a .357 or .380 or .45 to see how they rank.

Hasta,
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harry
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Re: TKO HEAVY for CALIBER

#2 Post by harry » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:14 pm

Looks like your ballistic coefficient is off, most of that style bullet have around .180 - .290
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Grizz
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Re: TKO HEAVY for CALIBER

#3 Post by Grizz » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:23 am

Thanks for pointing this out Harry.

My Bad, I didn't do the TKO calculations, I only posted the energy calculations, which aren't affected by the ballistic coefficient, as you can in this actual TKO calculation of my 45/70 load.

You are right about the data I posted, and I don't know where I got those figures. They are not posted with the BTB data on those bullets. A stumper. However that doesn't affect the energy calculation, as you can see in the TKO example.

Running those calculations on your examples is what I was trying to suggest.

As a comparison, check which of your loads have a TKO of 45, etc.

Thanks again for catching that.
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Grizz
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Re: TKO HEAVY for CALIBER

#4 Post by Grizz » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:44 am

Here is another example, this time I compared my round ball 12ga slug load, adjusting the velocity to produce the same muzzle energy of 2000fp, and getting a TKO of 60.

The most obvious caveat to me is comparing unlike loads, like the round ball, which is not hard cast, to the hard cast BTB loads. But comparing my revolver load TKO to my rifle load TKO is more instructive because, all else being equal, the wound forensics on the business end will be similar. My 405gr hand gun load penetrates doug fir firewood rounds, shot into the end grain, with as much authority as my 525gr rifle load. My 185gr 357 load will not penetrate through the same target. TKO helps me sort this out, and is why I carry 405gr hard cast in my revolver.

It is instructive to put 7.62, 30-30, and 9mm loads into the calculator to get a general sense of the information. For one thing, and I don't have any examples of this, I do not think that 7.62 NATO will penetrate as many jugs of water as the 525gr PileDriver, which I have video of . . .

Anyway, this may be as interesting to someone else as it is to me...

Coffee UP,
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Malamute
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Re: TKO HEAVY for CALIBER

#5 Post by Malamute » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:27 am

Ive gone away from the TKO over time. Partly from reading Taylors book, in which he stated that it was useful for predicting the value in knocking a head-shot elephant dizzy for various time periods (the origin of the "knock out value"), and that it didnt have much application for other types of game. It also doesnt have values for different shapes, soft point, etc of bullets and puts a lot of value on diameter, which isnt always the higher value. The value for a 12 ga slug of foster type is higher than a 458 Win Mag, for example.

Figuring out what various loads will do is a tricky business. Theres been many ideas on the subject over time, some seem better than others, but all seem to have weaknesses or cover limited applications.
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Grizz
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Re: TKO HEAVY for CALIBER

#6 Post by Grizz » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:06 pm

Thanks Malamute!

I agree with you about the narrow usefulness of TKO. It is definitive within certain contexts, two bullets of the same design and same alloy, comparing "expected" forensic performance at various ranges, etc. It seems useful to me comparing a 405gr hard cast 44 load to a 180gr hard cast 357 load.

Thanks for the observation, it's a good point.

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