Our only-two-party system sucks....

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AJMD429
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Our only-two-party system sucks....

#1 Post by AJMD429 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:14 pm

With 'friends' like this, who needs enemies.....

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019 ... ation-law/

The lesser-of-two-evils is still evil.
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Re: Our only-two-party system sucks....

#2 Post by BlaineG » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:23 pm

By the time of the national election, the chaff has been winnowed (or cheated) out of the running. Got a better idea that doesn't include splitting the vote? :P
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Re: Our only-two-party system sucks....

#3 Post by piller » Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:59 pm

The RINOs are flopping around more than a freshly beached carp. And are about as useful. My suggestion would get me in trouble, so I will modify it to PUT THE PRESSURE ON THE RINO JERKS AND VOTE THEM OUT IN THE PRIMARIES.
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Re: Our only-two-party system sucks....

#4 Post by Ray » Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:59 pm

My state just passed a 10 cent a gallon petrol tax to fund roads, infrastructure and harbour dredging.

When our representatives were campaigning last summer they said nothing about it.

They took in $850 million in 2018 on the current taxes but had to siphon-off $333.5 million to prop-up the state retirement system for supernumeraries.....

Elected officials such as judges, high Sheriffs, court clerks, tax assessors, tax collectors only have to serve a single four year term to qualify for lifetime two thirds rate supernumerary retirement.

There is no doubt that the delta is silted and the bridges are shaky and the roads are full of holes and ruts but there is no guarantee that the extra money taken from us will be used prudently and effectively by the pols.

After they get those extra hundreds of million, there will still be bad roads and bridges and too shallow rivers.

Our senators and representatives passed the thing anyway despite 3 to 1 constituent input against.

So what do we do except complain ?

Vote for the goober-smooching white liberals or black radical marx/engel ista opposition next time around ?
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Re: Our only-two-party system sucks....

#5 Post by AJMD429 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:38 pm

BlaineG wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:23 pm
By the time of the national election, the chaff has been winnowed (or cheated) out of the running. Got a better idea that doesn't include splitting the vote? :P
Yeah, actually. Simply allow people to vote for WHOEVER THEY WANT, instead of 'just one candidate'. That's already the norm in many elections at the state and local level, and there isn't any reason it couldn't work nationally. There would be no 'vote splitting' or 'spoiler candidates', but at the same time it would give pause to the RINO types, because there would be no security in simply being 'a bit less horrible than the Dumbascraps'. 'Third' parties would be far more of a threat to the RINOs, WITHOUT the risk of siphoning off votes for the 'lesser evil', and we'd see more people like Trump penetrating the swamp.

It's not theory, it's reality with many elections, just not at the federal level.
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Re: Our only-two-party system sucks....

#6 Post by BlaineG » Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:25 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:38 pm
BlaineG wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:23 pm
By the time of the national election, the chaff has been winnowed (or cheated) out of the running. Got a better idea that doesn't include splitting the vote? :P
Yeah, actually. Simply allow people to vote for WHOEVER THEY WANT, instead of 'just one candidate'. That's already the norm in many elections at the state and local level, and there isn't any reason it couldn't work nationally. There would be no 'vote splitting' or 'spoiler candidates', but at the same time it would give pause to the RINO types, because there would be no security in simply being 'a bit less horrible than the Dumbascraps'. 'Third' parties would be far more of a threat to the RINOs, WITHOUT the risk of siphoning off votes for the 'lesser evil', and we'd see more people like Trump penetrating the swamp.

It's not theory, it's reality with many elections, just not at the federal level.
How is voting for whoever you want NOT splitting the vote between conservative and socialist? BECAUSE, you know darn well that the socialists are much better trained than thinking, common sense Conservatives. The Socialists will knee jerk for whoever the DNC tells them to vote for, ergo, conservative votes will be "split" ( or whatever word you want to use for its). Perhaps Top Two no matter the party? Do ye na kin that Perrot cost us 8 years of Bill Clinton?
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Re: Our only-two-party system sucks....

#7 Post by AJMD429 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:11 pm

It isn't that complicated.

Say the Dems put up Bernie Sanders, and someone like Donald Trump wants to run on the Republican ticket, but the Swamp runs Mitt Romney instead (which is what happens pretty much every year - only through some kind of Divine Intervention did Trump make the nomination, and only due to Hillary being such a horrible nominee did he win).

Dems will ALL vote Sanders, even if they aren't "socialists", because they can't stand Romney.
Most Republicans will vote Romney, but as you know, some of the 'purist' Republicans will stay home, or if Trey Gowdy (just to pick a name) runs on a 'third' party, they will vote for him because they can't stand Romney. Sanders will probably win, in part due to the bleed-off votes for Gowdy, but even if Sanders doesn't win, we're stuck with Romney, and Gowdy has no chance - all he did was 'split the vote' and get Sanders elected. :|

Now, suppose it is possible to vote for MORE than one candidate, like in many state and local elections....

Dems will still probably all vote for Sanders, because they can't stand Romney as an establishment Republican.
However some Dems aren't socialists, so they might be willing to vote for Gowdy, if they perceive he is actually better for the blue collar worker, as long as they can also vote for Sanders.
The same number of Republicans will likely vote for Romney as before, and the bleed-off ones will vote for Gowdy as before. However the big difference is that the Romney voters can also vote for Gowdy, and many of them might do that, because they would be ok with Gowdy instead of Romney - they just don't want Sanders to win, no matter what.

If the total votes for Gowdy exceeds that of Sanders and that of Romney - Gowdy wins. No votes siphoned off so the 'worst evil' wins, but no longer is a candidate safe just being slightly-less-evil than the alternative.

It doesn't require citizens to be rocket-scientists to vote in such an election, they do it all the time - you just vote for whoever you would be 'ok' with winning the office.

In other words, had we had that system in 1992 - the voters who voted 'Perot' because they viewed Bush as only slightly less evil than Clinton, would have likely voted for BOTH Perot and Bush, because they hated Clinton more than Bush. Bush would likely have won.
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Re: Our only-two-party system sucks....

#8 Post by Ray » Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:05 pm

The tea party and green new deal socialists and big "L" libertarians finally come together in a spirit of bipartisanship.
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Re: Our only-two-party system sucks....

#9 Post by BlaineG » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:07 am

AJMD429 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:11 pm
It isn't that complicated.

Say the Dems put up Bernie Sanders, and someone like Donald Trump wants to run on the Republican ticket, but the Swamp runs Mitt Romney instead (which is what happens pretty much every year - only through some kind of Divine Intervention did Trump make the nomination, and only due to Hillary being such a horrible nominee did he win).

Dems will ALL vote Sanders, even if they aren't "socialists", because they can't stand Romney.
Most Republicans will vote Romney, but as you know, some of the 'purist' Republicans will stay home, or if Trey Gowdy (just to pick a name) runs on a 'third' party, they will vote for him because they can't stand Romney. Sanders will probably win, in part due to the bleed-off votes for Gowdy, but even if Sanders doesn't win, we're stuck with Romney, and Gowdy has no chance - all he did was 'split the vote' and get Sanders elected. :|

Now, suppose it is possible to vote for MORE than one candidate, like in many state and local elections....

Dems will still probably all vote for Sanders, because they can't stand Romney as an establishment Republican.
However some Dems aren't socialists, so they might be willing to vote for Gowdy, if they perceive he is actually better for the blue collar worker, as long as they can also vote for Sanders.
The same number of Republicans will likely vote for Romney as before, and the bleed-off ones will vote for Gowdy as before. However the big difference is that the Romney voters can also vote for Gowdy, and many of them might do that, because they would be ok with Gowdy instead of Romney - they just don't want Sanders to win, no matter what.

If the total votes for Gowdy exceeds that of Sanders and that of Romney - Gowdy wins. No votes siphoned off so the 'worst evil' wins, but no longer is a candidate safe just being slightly-less-evil than the alternative.

It doesn't require citizens to be rocket-scientists to vote in such an election, they do it all the time - you just vote for whoever you would be 'ok' with winning the office.

In other words, had we had that system in 1992 - the voters who voted 'Perot' because they viewed Bush as only slightly less evil than Clinton, would have likely voted for BOTH Perot and Bush, because they hated Clinton more than Bush. Bush would likely have won.
So...if there's 7 people on the Presidential slate, you can vote for how many?? 3? 4? 6? 7? Do I really have to explain that local and state elections do not use an Electoral College??
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Re: Our only-two-party system sucks....

#10 Post by AJMD429 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:16 am

You could vote for any number you wanted to.

There would STILL be a winner for each state, and no reason the electoral college process would change.

The only difference is that there would be pressure do be a better candidate than just 'the lesser evil'.
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Re: Our only-two-party system sucks....

#11 Post by BlaineG » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:33 am

AJMD429 wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:16 am
You could vote for any number you wanted to.

There would STILL be a winner for each state, and no reason the electoral college process would change.

The only difference is that there would be pressure do be a better candidate than just 'the lesser evil'.
The Primary system we have does exactly that. We had, what?, 18 potentials last 2015?
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Re: Our only-two-party system sucks....

#12 Post by OldWin » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:37 pm

Don't be fooled. It's a ONE party system. We are given the illusion of a choice while they pretend to fight over things that don't matter. Things only move in one direction, however. When you lose something, you never get it back.
This is why both parties hate Trump. When he is gone, they will both make sure this NEVER happens again.
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Re: Our only-two-party system sucks....

#13 Post by BlaineG » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:15 pm

OldWin wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:37 pm
Don't be fooled. It's a ONE party system. We are given the illusion of a choice while they pretend to fight over things that don't matter. Things only move in one direction, however. When you lose something, you never get it back.
This is why both parties hate Trump. When he is gone, they will both make sure this NEVER happens again.
Ok, let's let Peolosi, AOC, and that Muslim Woman pick the next SCOTUS.....
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Re: Our only-two-party system sucks....

#14 Post by AJMD429 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:32 pm

The primary system favors 'establishment' types, and still only picks ONE person to oppose the Greater Evil, which still means to be deemed 'electable' enough to win the general election, they only have to be the Slightly-Less-Evil. Not much of a bar, which is why we've had such lame RINO candidates elected most of the time (since Reagan IMHO), or worse, lost the elections because so many conservative, constitutional, and libertarian voters couldn't stomach endorsing the RINO the 'establishment' put on the ballot.

OldWin is right, brash billionaires don't come along that often, and it was a miracle Trump not only wanted to run, but got a major-party nomination, AND lucked out and wasn't running against a non-witch. Even though Perot had money, he was FAR less intelligent, clueless about the Constitution, and could never have beat Bush in the primaries. So voters fed up with RINOs did their 'protest vote' and Bush lost. It would have been much better if those voters could have voted Perot AND Bush - their dissatisfaction would have been duly noted and political pressure applied to Bush to be less-RINO'ish, but he'd have been likelier to win.

Now one can argue that Bush wasn't that much better than Bubba, or even that without the Clintonistas building their so-obviously-corrupt empire, Trump wouldn't have gotten elected.....but that gets into butterflies and hurricanes.

I do think that the future of our nation now hangs by a thread, thanks to the public schools dumbing down several generations, welfare, affirmative action, and the war on drugs destroying families, televisions mind-numbing ability to entrance and influence the masses, and too many spoiled college kids whose lives are focused on virtue-signaling to one another. Out of all that comes Trump, a brilliant, boorish billionaire, who understands the American Dream, and who has enough Bronx in him to thrive on picking fights with the 'news' media, and never backing down. He's the ONLY one I can imagine with the desire or skill-set to salvage this nation. If he can't drain enough of the swamp, it will fill back up, unless we purge RINOs at every election. So far, that hasn't happened.

Pray for us all....!
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Re: Our only-two-party system sucks....

#15 Post by Sixgun » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:39 pm

Well said Doc.....you de mun!---6

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Re: Our only-two-party system sucks....

#16 Post by Sixgun » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:47 pm

Ray wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:05 pm
The tea party and green new deal socialists and big "L" libertarians finally come together in a spirit of bipartisanship.

little-rascals.jpg

Hey look! Ain't that Chris Cristie in the middle holding hands with Obama and Romney, with the beast on the end, next to AOC with Dan Quayle on the left......---6

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Re: Our only-two-party system sucks....

#17 Post by BlaineG » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:45 am

:roll: All y'all non-believers go ahead and sell your guns and ammo to someone who cares. :lol:
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Re: Our only-two-party system sucks....

#18 Post by OldWin » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:09 pm

BlaineG wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:15 pm
OldWin wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:37 pm
Don't be fooled. It's a ONE party system. We are given the illusion of a choice while they pretend to fight over things that don't matter. Things only move in one direction, however. When you lose something, you never get it back.
This is why both parties hate Trump. When he is gone, they will both make sure this NEVER happens again.
Ok, let's let Peolosi, AOC, and that Muslim Woman pick the next SCOTUS.....
Not every piece of legislation is reviewed by the supreme court.
While it's great to have a majority on the bench, we can't base the health of our republic on it.
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Re: Our only-two-party system sucks....

#19 Post by BlaineG » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:59 pm

OldWin wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:09 pm
BlaineG wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:15 pm
OldWin wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:37 pm
Don't be fooled. It's a ONE party system. We are given the illusion of a choice while they pretend to fight over things that don't matter. Things only move in one direction, however. When you lose something, you never get it back.
This is why both parties hate Trump. When he is gone, they will both make sure this NEVER happens again.
Ok, let's let Peolosi, AOC, and that Muslim Woman pick the next SCOTUS.....
Not every piece of legislation is reviewed by the supreme court.
While it's great to have a majority on the bench, we can't base the health of our republic on it.
Perhaps once upon a time, but the process has not been constitutional for a very long time. The DNC have weaponized judges and courts against every Trump agenda item.
BTW, SCOTUS is NOT part of the bill passing. They only get involved when lower courts block new law and agenda items and we counter that with a higher court. SCOTUS is just the last court. They can approve, disapprove, or refuse to hear it and send it back to the lower court.
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Re: Our only-two-party system sucks....

#20 Post by AJMD429 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:58 pm

A classic "lesser evil" if there ever was one: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019 ... democrats/
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Re: Our only-two-party system sucks....

#21 Post by BlaineG » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:48 am

AJMD429 wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:58 pm
A classic "lesser evil" if there ever was one: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019 ... democrats/
It's really hard to have an adult conservation when you keep skewing the direction of the OP. :lol:
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