My new to me 16 ga SxS

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vancelw
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My new to me 16 ga SxS

#1 Post by vancelw » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:33 pm

I've been searching for a nice side by side 16 gauge shotgun for a long time. My 1st ever real gun was an old Columbia 16 ga single that had passed through several family members' hands before ending up in mine at age 11. Had to dig those hulls out with a knife. If I had any money at all I bought a box of shells and no snake was safe. My arms stayed shades of black, blue, yellow and purple from shoulder to elbow because the stock was too long for me to shoulder properly and it didn't always go off the 1st time. It finally got so unreliable i put it away. Still have it. Then my dad bought me an new Springfield 511 (cheaper wood than a Savage 311) 20 gauge SxS. Still have it, too.

I finally found a store in Albuquerque that had a Fortuna Werke Suhl. Its basically a J.P Sauer with a typewriter brand name.
I got it today and I am happy! Just what I was looking for...only better :!:
Opened it up and it has ejectors, not extractors :shock:
They work, too. :D :D :D :D
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I shot it 10 times today but haven't patterned it. Gonna have to break out the clay thrower.
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Last edited by vancelw on Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#2 Post by wm » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:46 pm

Very nice …… Good for you!

Wm

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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#3 Post by Larkbill » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:24 pm

Love my 16 ga. guns. I have the Stoeger Uplander and an early 50s A5. Once your friends know you have a 16 they'll be calling you whenever they see shells for sale. Ballistic Products will be your best friend for reloading components.
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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#4 Post by Plottman » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:59 pm

I like it, congratulations.

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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#5 Post by RIHMFIRE » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:19 pm

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
very nice!
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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#6 Post by gamekeeper » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:35 am

Nice looking 16 gauge, J.P. Sauer make fine shotguns, congratulations.... :mrgreen:

My only 16 ga is a single shot Stevens 94 32" full choke.
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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#7 Post by Old No7 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:11 am

vancelw wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:33 pm
I've been searching for a nice side by side 16 gauge shotgun for a long time...

I finally found a store in Albuquerque that had a Fortuna Werke Suhl. Its basically a J.P Sauer...

Opened it up and it has ejectors, not extractors :shock:
Looks and sounds like a nice one! Good luck with it.

It is possible to disable or lighten the ejectors.

I lightened the springs on my Dickinson 20 (with Southgate ejectors) so the hulls pop out lightly now -- before they would briskly shoot out over 15 feet and risk injuring someone (seriously). Now the cocking effort is much reduced, and I can easily catch them in my hand, and if I do let them fly out, they don't even go two feet. Works for me, much better than simply removing the springs -- as that only have me 1/16" extraction which wasn't any good. In the image below, you can see how much I lightened the ejector springs -- as they were quite stout when I started! :shock:

Dickinson Ejector after (Small).JPG

And I just saw over on ShotgunWorld where there's a screw that can be added to the top of the ejector system, which when tightened down disables it; and when loosened up by 1/8", it allows them to eject. Here is a link to that posting (click here).

Of course I just read about that solution years after my springs were already modified... :wink:

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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#8 Post by crs » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:53 am

Vance,
Good looking and well made gun and I think I see the scalloped rear receiver, Greener cross bolt, side clips, and cocked chamber indicator as on most Suhl guns of that era. Look forward to you range report.
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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#9 Post by Griff » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:02 am

crs wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:53 am
Vance,
Good looking and well made gun and I think I see the scalloped rear receiver, Greener cross bolt, side clips, and cocked chamber indicator as on most Suhl guns of that era. Look forward to you range report.
+1.
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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#10 Post by JRD » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:03 pm

Nice looking shotgun.
I have a soft spot for German doubles and they certainly loved the 16ga on the continent. Have you read the proof marks on the barrel flats to see when it was proofed? What are your chamber lengths and chokes? Is the action tight and do the barrels ring nicely?
While I wouldn't pick 16 gauge as a clay target gun, as a game gun a 16 gauge double is delightful. A 12 gauge feels like a cannon after carrying a 16 gauge double for a while. One of my favorites is a nameless maker German gun that was proved in 1922. It has 30" barrels and 2 1/2" chambers and is tightly choked in both barrels. However it's wonderfully trim and only weighs 6 pounds. It also has typical German features like yours with a scalloped action, cocking indicators, and sling swivels. I shoot RST 2 1/2" 1 oz low pressure shells through mine and pheasants have no complaints at all about those shells.

Your gun looks a more recently made than the one I'm describing so you may have longer chambers already. If you want to talk doubles offline, send me a PM.

I hope you enjoy shooting your new gun!

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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#11 Post by vancelw » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:55 pm

70mm chambers, made May 1951.
Haven't checked the chokes, yet. Hoping at least one is full.
Made in Suhl under communist control.
Action is very tight and triggers are smoothe. Slight cracks where stock meets the receiver but its better than 99% I've seen.
I couldn't be happier with my luck on this one. The electors are pure bonus.

I also have an 1965 era Remington 870 in 16 gauge that I found a few years ago. It's a perfect companion to my 1965 12 gauge.

Oh....and while I was picking this up at my FFL, I impulse bought a Remington Tac-13 (firearm that looks like a sawed off 870) Spent my liberal companies safety reward money on it. It's a hoot to shoot
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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#12 Post by t.r. » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:46 am

I inherited an old Savage FOX SxS in 16 gauge which fits me perfectly. It's my favorite for upland game. I buy my shells from Midway.

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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#13 Post by vancelw » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:44 pm

Old No7 wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:11 am
vancelw wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:33 pm
Opened it up and it has ejectors, not extractors :shock:
Looks and sounds like a nice one! Good luck with it.

It is possible to disable or lighten the ejectors.


Old No7
The ejectors are actually fine. One is wee bit stronger than the other, but both fling the empties cleanly out of my way.
After 2 people mentioned them, I had to look for the cocking indicators. I didn't realize they were there. Not sure why you need them on a SxS. If I shoot one or I shoot two, I'm going to reload immediately out of habit.

My :shock: at the ejectors was the price. I managed to find this at a very fair price for an extractor gun. I had no idea it had ejectors. :snoopy dance:
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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#14 Post by 6pt-sika » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:58 pm

vancelw wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:44 pm
Old No7 wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:11 am
vancelw wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:33 pm
Opened it up and it has ejectors, not extractors :shock:
Looks and sounds like a nice one! Good luck with it.

It is possible to disable or lighten the ejectors.


Old No7
The ejectors are actually fine. One is wee bit stronger than the other, but both fling the empties cleanly out of my way.
After 2 people mentioned them, I had to look for the cocking indicators. I didn't realize they were there. Not sure why you need them on a SxS. If I shoot one or I shoot two, I'm going to reload immediately out of habit.

My :shock: at the ejectors was the price. I managed to find this at a very fair price for an extractor gun. I had no idea it had ejectors. :snoopy dance:
I used to covet ejector guns over extracter guns and I still like them a lot . However for my double 10’s and 16’s I’d rather have an extracter because I wanna save the hulls . 12’s 20’s 28’s aNd 410’s if I’m hunting and they kick the hulls in the next county it’s no big deal as I’ve got plenty hulls for all four . 10’s and 16’s hulls come at a small premium .
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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#15 Post by 6pt-sika » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:11 pm

JRD wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:03 pm

While I wouldn't pick 16 gauge as a clay target gun, as a game gun a 16 gauge double is delightful. Am
To each his own . For a couple years I shot a circa 1930 AH Fox A Grade 16 at sporting clays , thirty years ago I used a Browning Citori Lightning 16 for sporting clays as well . At the moment I have a Parker GH and a Parker VH both 16 gauge field guns that I shoot skeet with regularly and sometimes sporting clays . And before you ask yes I have other gauges to choose from and shoot them as well . Now to your benefit I have a 16 gauge Kerner SxS with 30” F&F barrels that thumps on both ends .!
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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#16 Post by vancelw » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:38 pm

Unfortunately shotgun hulls are one of those things I hoard but never do anything with.
Yet.
My guns are primarily for hunting. Worrying about empties prematurely has nearly cost me some game, so I am continually trying to ignore those flying cases out of any of my repeaters. Trying.
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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#17 Post by 6pt-sika » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:50 am

vancelw wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:38 pm
Unfortunately shotgun hulls are one of those things I hoard but never do anything with.
Yet.
My guns are primarily for hunting. Worrying about empties prematurely has nearly cost me some game, so I am continually trying to ignore those flying cases out of any of my repeaters. Trying.
When I deer hunt 99% of the time I catch the brass from my rifles and that’s even when killing more then one deer . At the “moment” I don’t own a 10 or 16 with ejectors , BUT that could change at anytime LOL’s as I’m eyeing a Parker VHE 16 in need of TLC . I easily have thirty thousand shotgun hulls but only 1000 or so are for the 10 gauge and maybe 2500 for the 16 . Incidentally all my 10 hulls are purchased new unfired then get trimmed down on the bandsaw to 2 7/8” , I just bought 500 a couple weeks ago at $0.40 each .
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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#18 Post by 6pt-sika » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:01 am

Incidentally I plunked a doe from my treestand a few years back with my Parker GH 16 gauge shooting handloaded #1 Buck . That GH also does very well with home cast slugs from the Rooskie mold I got on Ebay that’s a kinda knockoff of the Lyman sabot slug but scaled down for the 16 . It does nicely at 25 and 50 yards . The Rooskie slugs do ok in my VH 16 also but it seems to like a box of old 70’s vintage WIN factory load foster slugs .
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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#19 Post by 6pt-sika » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:54 pm

Two pics of groups I shot at 25 yards with home cast Rooskie knockoff 16 gauge Lyman sabot slugs from my circa 1911 Parker GH 16 gauge damascus gun that had an inch or two relieved from the end of the barrels . Gun started life at 28 or 30 inches now it’s 27 . Three shots from the right barrel and three shots left barrel at 25 yards .
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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#20 Post by 308magtip » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:34 pm

Nice SxS.Had my L C Smith to a pheasant shooting preserve yesterday.First time in over 10 years .I got so use to single trigger long guns my finger almost without thought went for the rear trigger and FC left barrel.I had to restock it bgecause the previous owner was short and cut the stock down.Had a Prince of Wales type installed and fitted for my long arms.Just not enough range time with it.Be careful when jump shooting you don't do as I did. My first shotgun was a single shot 16 with hammer and hollow plastic stock.Yes it brused a little.

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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#21 Post by crs » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:13 pm

Vance said "After 2 people mentioned them, I had to look for the cocking indicators. I didn't realize they were there. Not sure why you need them on a SxS. If I shoot one or I shoot two, I'm going to reload immediately out of habit. "
And CRS said
"Good looking and well made gun and I think I see the scalloped rear receiver, Greener cross bolt, side clips, and cocked chamber indicator as on most Suhl guns of that era."

Vance, you have seen my Simson Suhl double rifle, but not studied it, so here is a pic of the receiver. Look familiar?
Image
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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#22 Post by vancelw » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:22 pm

Charles, a Simson is what I was looking for as I had handled one in Tulsa and liked it.
I also realized it was a Merkel with a lower price tag.
Then I finally realized that a J.P Sauer and a Fortuna were also the same thing.
I gave about 30 to 50 % of what I see Merkel 47s go for. That's too much for a name

Aaron is building me a double .44 Magnum out of a CZ-47 BRNO. Why? Because I want one!
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Re: My new to me 16 ga SxS

#23 Post by crs » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:25 am

Merkel, Sauer, Simson and most of the guns from Suhl during that period had the same receiver.
Many independent gun makers bought the receivers in the white and based double shotguns and rifles on those receivers.
There is a wealth of such information on the German Gun Collectors web site. You should be able to find more info on your there.
They are well built and long lasting receivers, so enjoy yours!

Also, I want to see your .44 mag double when Aaron finishes it.
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