Need ideas for fake case hardening

[TedH]

A while back I bought a Winchester 66 Centennial. I'm not a collector, I shoot my guns, so I promptly drilled and tapped it for a tang sight. It's a great shooter with jacketed and cast bullets, but I just ain't warming up to the bright plated receiver. I contacted a couple well known guys that do case hardening, and they both said it wouldn't work on the plated receiver of the sintered metal. I was wondering how to get the "faux" painted on case hardening look on it, like the New Vaquero's have? Any other ideas welcome as well.

[Old Savage]

Cerrocoat it .... Pink

Actually, it looks good.

[TedH]

If I can't get it to look like case colors, I'll just leave it be. It's not terrible, but I just can't help but imagine how it would look case hardened with that octagon barrel.

[J Miller]

Ted, I know this isn't the answer to your question, ( I don't know the answer ), but here's how I'd handle that rifle were it mine.
I'd take it to a plating shop, have the brass colored plating removed and have it satin black chromed.

Joe

[Griff]

Who'd you ask about the CCH? I have a scintered steel 1979 Winchester 94 that's been case hardened.

Tho', the brass plating may be taken the place of the steel plating of mine.

[Pete44ru]

.

FWIW, The post-64 Winchester's that were finished by the factory with what looks like CCH, is just another of the alternative coatings of the era (black chrome, pewter coloration, silver plating, gold plating, etc).

I'd suggest leaving it as it is, since removing the bright plating will involve a total disassembly (removing barrel, stocks & all internal receiver parts).

I will say that I got a CCH effect on one of my muzzleloaders via first removing any overcoat with acetone, then blotching on daubs of cold bluing solution - but - that was on brass, so IDK if it will work on the Winchester bright plating.

I'd try it, since I don't believe the acetone or cold blue would damage the receiver.


.

[TedH]

Who'd you ask about the CCH? I have a scintered steel 1979 Winchester 94 that's been case hardened.

Tho', the brass plating may be taken the place of the steel plating of mine.

Doug Turnbull said it wouldn't work. Mike Hunter wasn't big on the idea either.

[AJMD429]

Be sure it's really just plating (sounds like the Winchester guys here know that it is), because that might change things.

I like the idea of the acetone cold/bluing experiment, but it could be possible to use a ceramic coating to get a nice, if not 'case hardened', look.

I'd ask 7.62 Precision, or browse their website. https://762precision.wordpress.com/

[rbertalotto]

Have it dipped.........They can dip it in a water floated decal and it will look great. And be weatherproof to boot!

Actually, looks like you might be able to do it at home

http://www.amazon.com/Hydrographics-Fil ... B00WLCYFRE

[BenT]

Buy the same vintage 30-30 carbine in nice condition and do a barrel swap. Then sell the fancy plated carbine for more than you payed for it. You just need to pick up a blued forend cap.

[Griff]

Buy the same vintage 30-30 carbine in nice condition and do a barrel swap. Then sell the fancy plated carbine for more than you payed for it. You just need to pick up a blued forend cap.

They didn't clad the receivers in steel until the mid-70s. I happen to have two steel ones, are you made of money?

Have it dipped.........They can dip it in a water floated decal and it will look great. And be weatherproof to boot!
Actually, looks like you might be able to do it at home
http://www.amazon.com/Hydrographics-Fil ... B00WLCYFRE

Yep. Either that or take a brillo pad to the brass... that'll dull it up muy pronto!

[jnyork]

Got Krylon?

[Ben_Rumson]

Ditto what J Miller said.

[Old Savage]

Perfect real use rifle.

[plowboy 45]

Let me just trade you a 94, and have it cch,

[J Miller]

You could always strip it and dip it like former member OD did:

ODs1965TrapperPlumReciever.jpg

Joe

[TedH]

Have it dipped.........They can dip it in a water floated decal and it will look great. And be weatherproof to boot!

Actually, looks like you might be able to do it at home

http://www.amazon.com/Hydrographics-Fil ... B00WLCYFRE

That might be worth a try.

[M. M. Wright]

Bought a Kirst Konverter recently and the instructions that came with it suggested a cold blue daubed on several times for a sorta CCH look in the ejector cut-out you have to make. Don't know if it'll work on brass though but worth a try. It says to degrease the area and dab some cold blue in a few splotches then rub that down with a cloth then rub it with your fingers before applying another coat of the cold blue. Repeat until you are satisfied. If that's possible.

[milton]

Why don't you try some of the Birchwood Casey Brass Black product.It may not look like case hardening but it will not be as bright as the brass itself.

[Old Ironsights]

Faux case hardening can be done with a torch and oil.

All surfaces need to be polished first, but not degreased.

With gun disassembled (no springs to heat) smear a light coat of light oil (just a few drops) onto the surface to be treated. Heat with a gas torch held aprox 1" from the surface. Hold the flame in one spot for 20-30 seconds until heat rings just start to appear, then move the torch aprox 2" and continue the process until the entire surface has been torched and all the oil evaporated.

While the steel is still warm, apply another small amount of oil and lightly polish the treated surfaces with fine steel wool.

Let cool, wipe off excess oil and reassemble.

Practice a bit on other pieces of metal, but the process isn't that hard and the end result looks like case hardening if done right.

[TedH]

Faux case hardening can be done with a torch and oil.

All surfaces need to be polished first, but not degreased.

With gun disassembled (no springs to heat) smear a light coat of light oil (just a few drops) onto the surface to be treated. Heat with a gas torch held aprox 1" from the surface. Hold the flame in one spot for 20-30 seconds until heat rings just start to appear, then move the torch aprox 2" and continue the process until the entire surface has been torched and all the oil evaporated.

While the steel is still warm, apply another small amount of oil and lightly polish the treated surfaces with fine steel wool.

Let cool, wipe off excess oil and reassemble.

Practice a bit on other pieces of metal, but the process isn't that hard and the end result looks like case hardening if done right.

What is that amount of heat going to do the metal though? I would be leery of taking much heat from a torch on a receiver.

[Old Ironsights]

You aren't heating it very deeply, just to where heat rings show - not to glowing.

I'm not a metallurgist, but structural integrity should not be an issue with that small amount of spot warming.

The info I have came from documentation on how to put such a "finish" on expedient submachineguns...

[TedH]

You aren't heating it very deeply, just to where heat rings show - not to glowing.

I'm not a metallurgist, but structural integrity should not be an issue with that small amount of spot warming.

The info I have came from documentation on how to put such a "finish" on expedient submachineguns...

I wonder what the difference would be on a brass finish.

I might have to try that on the buttplate first, and if it doesn't work I can always just polish it back to the bright brass.

[Old Ironsights]

You aren't heating it very deeply, just to where heat rings show - not to glowing.

I'm not a metallurgist, but structural integrity should not be an issue with that small amount of spot warming.

The info I have came from documentation on how to put such a "finish" on expedient submachineguns...

I wonder what the difference would be on a brass finish.

I might have to try that on the buttplate first, and if it doesn't work I can always just polish it back to the bright brass.

Yeah. No idea how it would work on faux brass.

[marlinman93]

Torch case coloring looks like torch case coloring. It's obvious to anyone it's not the real thing, and IMHO looks terrible. I have seen one faux case colored receiver that looked wonderful, and it was done by an old friend decades ago. He actually painted it on a bare steel receiver, using enamel model car paints. I asked how he did it, and he explained it in detail.
He picked colors that would usually be found in casehardened receivers. Then he diluted them enough to make them watery. He used a paint brush to apply the colors, and then swirl them into the marbled patterns of real case colors. Once it was completed, he sprayed over it with clear enamel to seal it. It was about 10 years old when he showed it to me, and still looked very nice.

[jazman]

Who'd you ask about the CCH? I have a scintered steel 1979 Winchester 94 that's been case hardened.

Tho', the brass plating may be taken the place of the steel plating of mine.

Doug Turnbull said it wouldn't work. Mike Hunter wasn't big on the idea either.

I am thinking if these two had problems with the idea, it may be time for a new idea, eh? I second the Doc's idea of pinging 7.62 and see what he has to offer, I bet he can solve it.

[7.62 Precision]

The idea of the brass black or a cold blue on the brass is interesting to me. I don't know what kind of effect you could get. Antiquing the brass might look cool.

Anything else other than a coating would require removal of the plating. I was told by several people who do CCH that if the plating is removed, a sintered receiver takes CCH well. They were not on the caliber of Mike Hunter, though, so I would take his advice, hands down.

If the plating was removed, you could do a french grey type finish.

There is a coating in the works . . . but I can't say anything yet.

The new DuraBlue coatings are incredible. To most people, it looks like a quality blueing job. To you guys, it would look like bluing from 4 feet away or more. 2 feet, depending on the metal surface.

[7.62 Precision]

Oh, and the vaqueros are done with a chemical bath. I have a method to do it by hand, but haven't tried it on a sintered receiver yet.

[marlinman93]

I use Birchwood Casey's brass blackening on old gun scopes I restore. The old brass tubes come out almost black, but not quite. On a gun it should be buffed with a soft cloth once it's as dark as you like, and then dried. After drying, I spray them with clear enamel to seal the finish, and make it more durable.
This is an old brass telescope I rebuilt, and blackened. It's been rubbed with 4/0 steel wool to antique it and give it some patina, and aged look.

[TedH]

I think if I do anything, I'll try this at home first. A hydrographics kit can be bought for $75 bucks, and the film is only $10. And the best part, if I screw it up, it's completely reversible.

CCH.jpg

[marlinman93]

The BC blackening is also reversible easily. Simply buff it off to return to the shiny brass finish. It's a surface treatment, so not any different than any tarnished brass. My only question with the commemorative Winchester receivers that are brass plated is what is over the plating? I've never seen one tarnished, even after decades of use. So I wonder if they have a clear coat over them?

[TedH]

The BC blackening is also reversible easily. Simply buff it off to return to the shiny brass finish. It's a surface treatment, so not any different than any tarnished brass. My only question with the commemorative Winchester receivers that are brass plated is what is over the plating? I've never seen one tarnished, even after decades of use. So I wonder if they have a clear coat over them?

I think that must be the case.

[harry]

I think if I do anything, I'll try this at home first. A hydrographics kit can be bought for $75 bucks, and the film is only $10. And the best part, if I screw it up, it's completely reversible.

CCH.jpg

Ted if you look at the FAQ section of this web site they have some good video's of the dipping process but they don't sell the CCH type of film.
http://www.mydipkitstore.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3qFK2sAk6I

[octagon]

Marlin man the work you did on that brass scope is fantastic

[marlinman93]

Marlin man the work you did on that brass scope is fantastic

Thanks! I love early scopes and Ballard single shots. So many of my old Ballards are fitted with old period scopes. Had to teach myself how to do cleaning, crosshair replacement, and restoration work.