Because I want to....

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jamesgpobog
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Because I want to....

Post by jamesgpobog »

That is the answer to "Why?".

But I would like to know if people think I am completely insane or treading dangerous ground.


.38 S&W Project

The purpose of this project is to convert and load .38 S&W cases to .38SPL diameter for use in a Rossi .357Mag lever action M92 Puma carbine.
The reasoning for this is to explore the possibility of expanding magazine capacity for defensive reasons.
The current capacity of the gun is nine .38 SPL rounds in the magazine, one in the chamber.
Nine .38 SPL rounds loaded to an OAL of 1.55 is a total of 13.95", loaded to a cartridge OAL of 1.55"
A .38 S&W case can be loaded to the OAL equal to an empty .38 SPL case, that is, 1.15"
This means in the same length for nine .38 SPL rounds, twelve .38 S&W's can be loaded.
This is an increase of 3 rounds in the magazine for a total loaded gun of 14.

That is not an insignificant increase.

Load data shows 4 grains of Unique behind a 158gr bullet @ around 900fps. Out of the longer rifle barrel this will be in the range of 1200fps, very very nice for self defense.
Producing the rounds is planned as follows:
1. Resize/decap with .38SPL die.
2. Prime
3. Expand case with .380 or .38 Super LEE thru die powder die.
4. Seat/crimp with .380 or .38 Super die.
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williamranks
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by williamranks »

If nine isn't enough, somebody needs a lot more range time.
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jamesgpobog
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by jamesgpobog »

williamranks wrote:If nine isn't enough, somebody needs a lot more range time.
One thing I did not explain is that part of the plan is for this to be a "bug-out" gun, except in an auto, and add to that the fact that I live in SoCal and work 30 miles from home. The possibilities exist that in the event of a serious earthquake, I might have to travel that 30 miles on foot.
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BenT
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by BenT »

Why not.

Sounds like an interesting winter project. Start by trying to get you gun to cycle 38 S&W.
Pisgah
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by Pisgah »

"But I would like to know if people think I am completely insane or treading dangerous ground."

Hmmm -- I'll go with insane... :lol: :wink:
765x53
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by 765x53 »

Why not use .38 short Colt brass? https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cas ... olt-Brass/
No special sizing needed.
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jamesgpobog
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by jamesgpobog »

765x53 wrote:Why not use .38 short Colt brass? https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cas ... olt-Brass/
No special sizing needed.
To be honest, I was not aware of that round. It looks interesting...
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Ray
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by Ray »

Deleted.
Last edited by Ray on Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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earlmck
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by earlmck »

My Rossi wouldn't feed a cartridge that short very smoothly. You've made sure yours does?
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by Rusty »

earlmck wrote:My Rossi wouldn't feed a cartridge that short very smoothly. You've made sure yours does?

+1 That would be the first thing to find out. Before you buy new brass, you might try trimming down some you have.
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gamekeeper
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by gamekeeper »

Interesting project but with the side loading gate, topping up the magazine as you go is one of the advantages of a levergun.
I do like idea of being able to fire different cartridges in a gun but reliability is paramount .
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by Larkbill »

"Interesting project but with the side loading gate, topping up the magazine as you go is one of the advantages of a levergun."

This. Why I've always considered my '94 .30-30 my Urban Assault Rifle.
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jeepnik
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by jeepnik »

williamranks wrote:If nine isn't enough, somebody needs a lot more range time.
My usual response used to be "or air or artillery support". Sadly recent events make it obvious that the bad times occurs you may need as many rounds as you can get your hands on.

While the increase is only a small number, just about any extra rounds may be necessary. My biggest concern is feed reliability with the shorter rounds. If the rifle has a FTF the extra rounds are moot.

I have seen some tubes that hold extra rounds and allow one to reload a levergun pretty fast. This might be a better way to go.

I can see where the OP is coming from. I, too, live in SoCal. However my travels range all over SoCal from the border with Mexico to Bakersfield, and out to western Arizona and Nevada. I carry a pretty extensive GHB and pray I won't loose my source of transportation. If I did I'd be looking as days of travel to get home.

I've recently gone from a 20 ga shotgun to my M1A Scout Squad as my work vehicle long gun. If I ever need it, I want to be able to reach out with some authority yet still maintain fairly good CQB usability.
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jamesgpobog
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by jamesgpobog »

earlmck wrote:My Rossi wouldn't feed a cartridge that short very smoothly. You've made sure yours does?
I have not gone this short, that's part of the process, but what I have done is find that my gun will feed wadcutters seated out a little loaded in .38spl. COL and bullet shape seem to be major factors in this neck of the woods...
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milton
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by milton »

I agree with the others concerning the shorter round,why don't you trim back some 38 special brass to the length you are looking for and try it out?
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jamesgpobog
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by jamesgpobog »

milton wrote:I agree with the others concerning the shorter round,why don't you trim back some 38 special brass to the length you are looking for and try it out?
I don't have a power trimmer, doing it by hand is a PITA...
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by AJMD429 »

jamesgpobog wrote:
milton wrote:I agree with the others concerning the shorter round,why don't you trim back some 38 special brass to the length you are looking for and try it out?
I don't have a power trimmer, doing it by hand is a PITA...
Could you slip them over a metal dowel then use a copper-pipe type 'tubing cutter' on them...?
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jamesgpobog
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by jamesgpobog »

AJMD429 wrote:
jamesgpobog wrote:
milton wrote:I agree with the others concerning the shorter round,why don't you trim back some 38 special brass to the length you are looking for and try it out?
I don't have a power trimmer, doing it by hand is a PITA...
Could you slip them over a metal dowel then use a copper-pipe type 'tubing cutter' on them...?
Maybe, it's still slow. I did just buy 100 new Starlines from Acme for 20-ish bucks. That's doable...

What do people think of crimping in the lube groove of a coated bullet?
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Merle
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by Merle »

How sure are you that the somewhat larger diameter S&W cases can be easily sized in a Special sizing die?
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jamesgpobog
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by jamesgpobog »

Merle wrote:How sure are you that the somewhat larger diameter S&W cases can be easily sized in a Special sizing die?
I've done it. No sweat, though it seems 38 Short Colt will be a better way to go...
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jeepnik
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by jeepnik »

A little side note. The best two reasons for doing many, many things are "because I want to" and "because I can". I used to take such things for granted. Today I appreciate them more and more as time passes.
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by Griff »

jamesgpobog wrote:But I would like to know if people think I am completely insane or treading dangerous ground.
38 Short Colt. Feeding and loading will be an issue. You'll need to ensure that the 2nd to last round loaded is pushed past the cartridge stop so it stays in the mag, not partially on the carrier.

Then ensure your feed slots in the guides allow the rim thru without stovepiping.

Excellent project. Curiosity is usually not a "bad" thing. Be safe.
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by tman »

jamesgpobog wrote:
Merle wrote:How sure are you that the somewhat larger diameter S&W cases can be easily sized in a Special sizing die?
I've done it. No sweat, though it seems 38 Short Colt will be a better way to go...
Interesting. I have a 1851 Colt converted to 38 long colt. Will have to try some in my 92 to see how they feed. Dig the space dog. 8)
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Hillbilly
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by Hillbilly »

Old or new follower? Way back in the shadows I think they changed that part. Tube mags are not restricted in California.
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by Merle »

Hillbilly wrote:Old or new follower? Way back in the shadows I think they changed that part. Tube mags are not restricted in California.
At least not yet........
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7.62 Precision
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Re: Because I want to....

Post by 7.62 Precision »

Hillbilly wrote:Tube mags are not restricted in California.
Nor stripper clips . . .

And I would prefer a rifle cartridge for the intended role.

But the project is cool, and I am interested to hear how the OAL thing works out.
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