Kept my job, but not sure I want it now

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:04 pm

Along with the new owners, new employee handbooks were given out today, along with some forms to sign that I'm not on board with. They want no illegal drugs, alchohol, or weapons on the property. They want consent to search our personal property at any time, for any reason they see fit for the above items. As far as i'm concerned, my personal vehicle is an extension of my domicile, and they have no business, or right to know what's in it, much less search it! Obviously I don't care about the drugs or alchohol part, but I don't go anywhere without my ccw piece. What say you?

3leggedturtle · Post by **3leggedturtle** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:26 pm

Sounds pretty unreasonable to me. What a crappy situation.

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:33 pm

Same way at My Job Ted. I work for a large grocery chain and no weapons are allowed on the property. not even in a lock box. some of the hot heads have said "it's My car and they can't tell Me what to do". I told them if it's broken into and the gun stolen they can't report it as having been at work or if it is used in a crime chances are the company will turn them over to the cops. and they will be terminated and maybe prosecuted.
I don't like it at all.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:59 pm

Don't Ask, Don't Tell....that's pretty standard these days....Insurance Provisions... I'm pretty sure you would never give them a reason to want to go out there....

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:12 pm

I'm glad we settled that issue in TX!

missionary5155 · Post by **missionary5155** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:23 pm

Greetings
That is a tough issue to face. It often is not an easy one to finally decide upon. 18 years ago we were faced with conditions to accept or leave a 12 year association that was moving in a direction we could not abide with so we resigned. These last 18 years have been much better well worth the decision to move on.
If the job is essential then I would look into some possibilities. How many other employees CC ? Are some of you key employees ? If you all leave what happens to the outfit ? Are the new owners prepared to fire employees who refuse to the demands ? CC is legal. In Missouri can you be fired while not breaking the law ?
What constitutes a weapon ? A Glock slide comes off easily and renders it just parts.

gundownunder · Post by **gundownunder** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:59 pm

If their demands are legal then I guess your only option is to buckle to them or say adios.
On the other hand if the demands contravene your rights in some way you could point this fact out to them.
If you don't have time to work it out, IE they want you to sign today, you could sign, then investigate the legality and then rescind their search rights in writing afterwards due to it contravening such and such law.
PS. My legal advise is only worth what you paid for it.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:05 pm

Can you park offsite?

Keep the job for now and look for another. But you will likely run into the same thing everywhere you go. The insurance companies insist on it.

PriseDeFer · Post by **PriseDeFer** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:13 pm

You might check out your state law on firearms kept in private vehicles in company owned parking lots. It may supersede company rules.

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:16 pm

I haven't read all responses but have vast experience in it. I was a 35 year security guard at probably the largest Government contract factory in the states. We had both parking lots outside the gates and inside the gates both company owned. That company did mostly Government contracts on a lot of secret projects. Most was classified, some not. When you hired in to that company you about signed your life away. There were warning signs about weapons and camera`s at every possible entrance. It was not just the company rules, they were mandated by various branch's of the federal government. The most distasteful part of my job to me was doing vehicle search's and going through peoples briefcase`s and lunch box`s.
On the average shift, depending on what post or assignment I might go through uncountable vehicles every person going through a secret guard post had to open their lunch buckets and we/I had to go through bags etc. Some area`s weren't as high security as others. The people took the jobs inside because it was top pay with the best benefits with the strongest unions in the country and just maybe in the world. They didn't get the jobs unless they could pass security clearances for the projects involved.
Having gone through all that they knew exactly what they could and couldn't bring in. They wouldn't be there at all had they not agreed to it and signed their names.
My job was easy. I had next to no hassles over doing that part of the job. My 35 years was done over 15 years ago and I cant recall many war story's over that part of my job EXCEPT with people that might have business to come in the plant that weren't company employee`s but maybe called in to service or fix specialized machinery or whatever.
I will say that with some other few guards it was hard to believe we had the same job. That was from the various demeanor`s of some guards. Most of us could get our job done without incident a very few others managed to pee people off with regularity. To my knowledge I never had a employee complain about me to our chief in the 35 years.

plowboy 45 · Post by **plowboy 45** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:25 pm

Keep it on yourself hid, if anything happens shoot to kill, when the smoke clears, we'll discuss it all right here

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:33 pm

plowboy 45 wrote:Keep it on yourself hid, if anything happens shoot to kill, when the smoke clears, we'll discuss it all right here

But maybe without Ted, as jail typically curtails internet access.

plowboy 45 · Post by **plowboy 45** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:48 pm

Well, I was referring to a life threatening situation

I don't think they'd hang a man for self-defense, not even in Missouri

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:22 pm

Griff wrote:
plowboy 45 wrote:Keep it on yourself hid, if anything happens shoot to kill, when the smoke clears, we'll discuss it all right here
But maybe without Ted, as jail typically curtails internet access.

No jail specified in Missouri from my reading. I'd carry and risk the job if I enjoyed my work.
I dunno who wrote the law, but I think I like them.
Permit does not allow carrying:

http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/stathtml/57100001071.HTML wrote: (15) Any private property whose owner has posted the premises as being off-limits to concealed firearms by means of one or more signs displayed in a conspicuous place of a minimum size of eleven inches by fourteen inches with the writing thereon in letters of not less than one inch. The owner, business or commercial lessee, manager of a private business enterprise, or any other organization, entity, or person may prohibit persons holding a concealed carry permit or endorsement from carrying concealed firearms on the premises and may prohibit employees, not authorized by the employer, holding a concealed carry permit or endorsement from carrying concealed firearms on the property of the employer. If the building or the premises are open to the public, the employer of the business enterprise shall post signs on or about the premises if carrying a concealed firearm is prohibited. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises. An employer may prohibit employees or other persons holding a concealed carry permit or endorsement from carrying a concealed firearm in vehicles owned by the employer;

(16) Any sports arena or stadium with a seating capacity of five thousand or more. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;

(17) Any hospital accessible by the public. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises of a hospital shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises.

2. Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location specified in subdivisions (1) to (17) of subsection 1 of this section by any individual who holds a concealed carry permit issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121, or a concealed carry endorsement issued prior to August 28, 2013, shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial to the premises or removal from the premises. If such person refuses to leave the premises and a peace officer is summoned, such person may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed one hundred dollars for the first offense. If a second citation for a similar violation occurs within a six-month period, such person shall be fined an amount not to exceed two hundred dollars and his or her permit, and, if applicable, endorsement to carry concealed firearms shall be suspended for a period of one year. If a third citation for a similar violation is issued within one year of the first citation, such person shall be fined an amount not to exceed five hundred dollars and shall have his or her concealed carry permit, and, if applicable, endorsement revoked and such person shall not be eligible for a concealed carry permit for a period of three years. Upon conviction of charges arising from a citation issued pursuant to this subsection, the court shall notify the sheriff of the county which issued the concealed carry permit, or, if the person is a holder of a concealed carry endorsement issued prior to August 28, 2013, the court shall notify the sheriff of the county which issued the certificate of qualification for a concealed carry endorsement and the department of revenue. The sheriff shall suspend or revoke the concealed carry permit or, if applicable, the certificate of qualification for a concealed carry endorsement. If the person holds an endorsement, the department of revenue shall issue a notice of such suspension or revocation of the concealed carry endorsement and take action to remove the concealed carry endorsement from the individual's driving record. The director of revenue shall notify the licensee that he or she must apply for a new license pursuant to chapter 302 which does not contain such endorsement. The notice issued by the department of revenue shall be mailed to the last known address shown on the individual's driving record. The notice is deemed received three days after mailing.

ollogger · Post by **ollogger** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:24 pm

similar deal with me at work, no searches of vehicle but not to carry at work or pack a gun in
pickup parked on company land, well I don't carry at work but the pickup is always carrying
a gun or two!!

Brad

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:48 am

Before Maine made it illegal for companies to do this to employees, the company I work for tried this. I travel 50 miles to work at night and there is NO WAY I'm doing it unarmed.
When they told us about it in a meeting, I raised my hand and asked..........

"I'm surprised the company would take on this kind of liability; what happens when you search someone's vehicle and when you finish the owner says, hey, where is my wife's 3 carat diamond? It was right there in the cupholder. Then the owner calls the police.

My vehicle was never searched, nor anyone elses.

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:49 am

Ooops. 2X

92&94 · Post by **92&94** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:22 am

OldWin wrote:Before Maine made it illegal for companies to do this to employees, the company I work for tried this. I travel 50 miles to work at night and there is NO WAY I'm doing it unarmed.
When they told us about it in a meeting, I raised my hand and asked..........

"I'm surprised the company would take on this kind of liability; what happens when you search someone's vehicle and when you finish the owner says, hey, where is my wife's 3 carat diamond? It was right there in the cupholder. Then the owner calls the police.

My vehicle was never searched, nor anyone elses.

That is more practical than was my suggestion.

I've been working for universities for so long now that it's just never come up, you know it going in. When I worked in AZ, it was state law that out of sight in a locked vehicle was exempt from the campus restrictions. Don't know about NM, but since there is no rifle range on my way to work now, I've not dug into the question.

Of course, my little piece of "campus" is always up in the woods with few risks other than the odd cougar or bear. If I had to work down on the big campus where there are gun free zone signs and people who can read them, I would be more concerned for my personal safety

mikld · Post by **mikld** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:46 am

TedH wrote:Along with the new owners, new employee handbooks were given out today, along with some forms to sign that I'm not on board with. They want no illegal drugs, alchohol, or weapons on the property. [i]They want consent to search our personal property at any time, for any reason they see fit for the above items[/i]. As far as i'm concerned, my personal vehicle is an extension of my domicile, and they have no business, or right to know what's in it, much less search it! Obviously I don't care about the drugs or alchohol part, but I don't go anywhere without my ccw piece. What say you?

No way! Random searches? Is any of their work "Classified" government/national security work?

crs · Post by **crs** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:22 am

As Griff said "I'm glad we settled that issue in TX!"

It is my understanding that New Mexico law considers your vehicle an extension of your home and therefore weapons in a car are OK.

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:38 am

As a guard on a huge department, we always had a few of what we referred to as "Guard house lawyers". They were PITA`s. They knew it all but were ignored. One guy on our department was great at finding guns. I was the worst at it. I knew just where not to look. For awhile we were given a number for the day to check maybe every 8th car coming through the gate. Even had to have them sign a roster that they were searched. Every time I had a friend come through I would shove a clipboard through their window and say, You have been searched.
Things do happen though. Here is one very lesser story. I was assigned a certain entrance that I would open some double doors and there would be a mass of employees ready to run to punch in. No fooling, maybe up to 750 or so would shoot through about 8 abreast in the first 10 minuets. I was to check their picture badges to ascertain that indeed, it belonged to the person pictured. I have heard even that government spooks tried to get through wearing a badge with a picture of Micky mouse on it to check us. One guy went through on the far side of the pressing mass of me and the first time I wasn't sure that he showed me his badge or not. By the time I yelled out he was far ahead with tons of people between us. Okay. Next day I was watching for it and he tried again. I stopped him and we were nose to nose discussing it as probably another 100 people got through that I didn't check.
He had his badge, claimed he showed it and I knew he hadn't. I call the chief and chief just says let him in. I am young and hot and tell the chief B.S! If you want him in you come down here and let him in because I aint! The chief did come down and let him in and didn't bother bawling me out.
The funny thing was that man became a good friend!

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:52 pm

OldWin wrote:"I'm surprised the company would take on this kind of liability; what happens when you search someone's vehicle and when you finish the owner says, hey, where is my wife's 3 carat diamond? It was right there in the cupholder. Then the owner calls the police.

Yep. GOOD idea...!!!!

I've used the argument that the 'liability' of a CCW licensee harming a coworker or customer is extremely small, because:

a) licensees just don't tend to do that kind of things (less likely than cops are, and we all seem to think it is ok allow cops to ccw)

b) if a licensee harmed a coworker on-the-job due to some personal issue, he/she could just as well ambush them elsewhere

c) if a licensee harms a customer somehow during a holdup, it really isn't the company's fault, but rather the individual who is ccw'ing, or whoever trained him/her, or might just be. . . an accident. . . Not everything that happens is someone's "fault" (although any deep-pocketed corporation WILL be a target of unscrupulous lawyers and victims who feel 'entitled')

...whereas the liability of a CCW licensee (or coworker they could have protected) suffering harm due to being disarmed IS equally likely as ALL the above scenarios (because the scenarios are identical, just the individual in question unarmed). And in that case, anyone harmed can clearly claim that the company interfered with their protection, whereas in the above cases 'b' and 'c' which the employer fears so much, one can't argue that the company's actions were the cause of the harm.

Of course anti-gun bureaucrats are anti-gun because they don't have the intelligence to think things through if they are beyond sound-byte level, or don't have the integrity to obey their own rules, so have armed security or ccw for themselves, just not the peasantry, and therefore logical, factual, but complex arguments just have no effect. In addition, they live in a world where lawyers are more of a threat to the company than violent individuals, so whether an innocent employee or customer is harmed is really NOT what they fear, but rather the lawsuits.

.....however threatening them with all the employees having diamond rings 'stolen' just might sink in.....

gundownunder wrote:If their demands are legal then I guess your only option is to buckle to them or say adios.
On the other hand if the demands contravene your rights in some way you could point this fact out to them.

What are you, some 'gun nut'...??? Everyone knows you don't have a "right" to keep or bear arms; "rights" are for things like wearing a Muslim headscarf, flaunting your gay lifestyle, or not-getting-fired for incompetence on the job because you are African-American. "Rights" are for forcing your employer to keep your job-slot for you even though you want to take six months off to stay at home after your wife has a baby, or for forcing your employer to pay you for "working" when you are at home partying on a holiday when the office is closed.

Booger Bill wrote:The people took the jobs inside because it was top pay with the best benefits with the strongest unions in the country and just maybe in the world.

....evidently those unions were more interested in money than protecting their workers, or they would have told the bureaucrats their members wouldn't set foot on government property without the express right to be armed...

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:21 pm

You know, I worked for Lockheed aircraft company for 35 years. I figure it was more like 60 years if we counted all the unGodly OT I did. I figured I was there longer than I was old when I retired. I had and may still, the longevity record for the plant protection department. Any given time I would estimate a high of 350 and a low of 200 guards. That said, not once that I know of was a guard ever accused of stealing something out of a employee`s car searching it. That`s what I mean about "Guard house lawyers." A lot of stuff happened over all those years, but that wasn't one of them. Think about it. My job was easy. The biggest reason was a employee had A LOT to lose. You get stopped by a cop and you might be looking at a $200 traffic ticket. They messed with us and they lost their career. I am sure that was the biggest reason we didn't have a lot of trouble. Now don't you think that out of hundreds of thousands of people that worked at Lockheed over the years that one of them wouldn't have thought up that idea if it would have worked? I believe our company spent more on background checks to clear us than any LEO department ever did. Many years ago I heard the average clearance cost the company about $50,000s. And I retired in 2,000. On top of that it wasn't just once to get hired, we were updated often. Investigators checked neighbors of mine in Wisconsin and I worked in California! If we got a traffic ticket over $50s we had to report it! If we went to TJ over the weekend we had to report it. Who do you think was going to be believed if someone claimed the guard took his wife's ring? They weren't making potato chips at Lockheed.

92&94 · Post by **92&94** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:59 pm

Booger Bill wrote:You know, I worked for Lockheed aircraft company for 35 years. I figure it was more like 60 years if we counted all the unGodly OT I did. I figured I was there longer than I was old when I retired. I had and may still, the longevity record for the plant protection department. Any given time I would estimate a high of 350 and a low of 200 guards. That said, not once that I know of was a guard ever accused of stealing something out of a employee`s car searching it. That`s what I mean about "Guard house lawyers." A lot of stuff happened over all those years, but that wasn't one of them. Think about it. My job was easy. The biggest reason was a employee had A LOT to lose. You get stopped by a cop and you might be looking at a $200 traffic ticket. They messed with us and they lost their career. I am sure that was the biggest reason we didn't have a lot of trouble. Now don't you think that out of hundreds of thousands of people that worked at Lockheed over the years that one of them wouldn't have thought up that idea if it would have worked? I believe our company spent more on background checks to clear us than any LEO department ever did. Many years ago I heard the average clearance cost the company about $50,000s. And I retired in 2,000. On top of that it wasn't just once to get hired, we were updated often. Investigators checked neighbors of mine in Wisconsin and I worked in California! If we got a traffic ticket over $50s we had to report it! If we went to TJ over the weekend we had to report it. Who do you think was going to be believed if someone claimed the guard took his wife's ring? They weren't making potato chips at Lockheed.

Yeah, clearly a whole different can of worms than we're talking about here - and the reason is TedH's company's policy just changed.

A place like Lockheed you know going in that there will be this kind of stuff, and you know there is probably a reason for it, and those reasons and policies are probably as old as the company. What Ted's describing sounds more like a new company policy to go along with a new moron in a suit and nice office. Do you really think this is in the same class as what you are talking about?

I've seen lots of security guards in ill fitting uniforms, clearly average schmoes just hired to be a presence and nothing more. I think that is more along the lines of those new company rules being discussed here.

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:44 pm

The company had parking lots both in and out of the gates and entrances. The ones INSIDE had to have pretty good reasons just to get a pass to drive in. They had the option to park outside the gate and not jump through the hoops. A far out example. A man and a woman worked together in one area.
She rejected his advances so he didn't come to work. He shot her she in the stomach as she left the gate. She lived and he got away. He was a fugitive for a long time. She recovered and came back to work. She was terrified and got a drive in pass. She would literally fly through the gate and we wouldn't stop her to check anything. She no doubt felt safer at work than she did in her house. After quite awhile he was caught when he shot someone else.
We had a huge event back around 1971. I have many times tried googling it and have found next to nothing on it. It seems the news on it must have been purposely blacked out for political reasons and or company PC. Today it would be on the evening news for a month.
A black Muslim worked there. He even wore a robe and one of those round caps. I don't know how he got hired or maybe he converted after he hired in. I highly doubt he had a classified job or he wouldn't have worked. He was a royal screw up and was fired a bunch of times. Each time the union fought for him and he was rehired. Finally the last time even the union couldn't get him back.
He went to the union hall not far from the plant. He shot one or two there and another old boy got a heart attack seeing it and died. He went to the plant and forced his way through a guard. He went in and shot his boss and maybe another. I believe he killed either two or three that day plus the man that died from the hear attack. I cant recall if it was two at the union hall or two in the factory. The guard he shoved past rode with a Burbank police officer looking for him. They spotted him and he threw his gun down and begged for his life. The guy who died from the heart attack`s name was "Tom Mc Nett". His name can be found as a memorial club or whatever on the Union web site. That`s all! I haven't been able with a lot of google searching to find any article on the incident. I do recall the mans last name but it doesn't seem to help as perhaps he was prosecuted under a different Muslim name. I knew the guy that died of the heart attack. The guard involved was a friend of mine but the last I heard he had a high state government position. I suppose him retired by now.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:43 pm

AJMD429 wrote:.....however apprising them with all the employees having diamond rings 'stolen' just might sink in..... :lol

I'm sure that's more like you meant... threats can be construed so negatively...

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:14 am

I have a small advantage. I work for myself. So with regards to office and vehicles it's up to me. And, it's okay. Only one other employee carries, the others aren't interested.

With regards to customer sites. I can either park off site or the sites don't regulate the issue (one of the advantages of being in a state that has relatively few CCW's). The two that do regulate it are a military base and an oil company. In both cases there are gun stores close by that are more than willing to secure my firearm while I'm there.

The last bit about gun stores is something many never think of. Besides, those two store love to see me. I always buy something. It's a case of, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:01 pm

When I was a Lockheed guard we of course had many non company trucks that came in to deliver stuff. I think almost all including me used their own discretion. Venders of all types were a everyday thing. If they had to work in a classified area we escorted them. In fact I pretty much doubled my wages from it. I worked graveyard and venders showed up on day shift as I was getting off. I could almost count on OT escorting. Sometimes double shifts but more often a extra 4 hours.
Long as we are into the subject, and I suppose some of you do have jobs that take you into various factory's as a vender or visitor, let me point out: You may sometimes think the dumb guard is a nit picker or over zealous at times at the job. If someone needed to go even to the bath room we had to escort them. Realize this: We often had/have plain cloths government investigators "spot checking" us! A few screw ups and the company gets a bad security rating that could loose a contract for them!
They actually have a sort of report card security rating when contracts are given government contracts to whatever company! Once when I was starting out 50 years ago, I walked past a couple workers that were by themselves with no one else in site. They were in a small shop foundry. I had done that work a few years prior to lockheed. I just made a wise comment as I walked by,: Keep it up boy`s, that's how I got my start! Later I was on a gate and our shift company investigator walked out. I knew he was a retired FBI agent working his second career. He walked by me and said, "Keep it up, that's how I got my start! And kept walking. He had to have been hid watching those guys when I walked by doing my rounds. It`s been 15 years since I retired but I doubt things have changed much. Often we would be called to respond to a alarm. Usually they were a false alarm by natural causes but once in awhile there would be a spook standing there looking at his watch to see if we made it in the required 5 minutes or whatever the specks called for in that area.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:12 pm

Booger Bill wrote:When I was a Lockheed guard we of course had many non company trucks that came in to deliver stuff. I think almost all including me used their own discretion. Venders of all types were a everyday thing. If they had to work in a classified area we escorted them. In fact I pretty much doubled my wages from it. I worked graveyard and venders showed up on day shift as I was getting off. I could almost count on OT escorting. Sometimes double shifts but more often a extra 4 hours.
Long as we are into the subject, and I suppose some of you do have jobs that take you into various factory's as a vender or visitor, let me point out: You may sometimes think the dumb guard is a nit picker or over zealous at times at the job. If someone needed to go even to the bath room we had to escort them. Realize this: We often had/have plain cloths government investigators "spot checking" us! A few screw ups and the company gets a bad security rating that could loose a contract for them!
They actually have a sort of report card security rating when contracts are given government contracts to whatever company! Once when I was starting out 50 years ago, I walked past a couple workers that were by themselves with no one else in site. They were in a small shop foundry. I had done that work a few years prior to lockheed. I just made a wise comment as I walked by,: Keep it up boy`s, that's how I got my start! Later I was on a gate and our shift company investigator walked out. I knew he was a retired FBI agent working his second career. He walked by me and said, "Keep it up, that's how I got my start! And kept walking. He had to have been hid watching those guys when I walked by doing my rounds. It`s been 15 years since I retired but I doubt things have changed much. Often we would be called to respond to a alarm. Usually they were a false alarm by natural causes but once in awhile there would be a spook standing there looking at his watch to see if we made it in the required 5 minutes or whatever the specks called for in that area.

And yet, the Communists in our GubMent eventually sell, or give all of it away to China, who gives it away to any anti-USA country that wants it.....

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:14 pm

Concealed is Concealed. Don't give them a reason to Terry Frisk you and it's nobody's business.

They can check your bag(s) and (in some jurisdictions) your vehicle, but not your thunderwear - not without a Cop and a warrant.

Better Armed with a Deep Cover mini gun than not at all.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:28 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:Concealed is Concealed. Don't give them a reason to Terry Frisk you and it's nobody's business.

They can check your bag(s) and (in some jurisdictions) your vehicle, but not your thunderwear - not without a Cop and a warrant.

Better Armed with a Deep Cover mini gun than not at all.

"They" can't make you, but they can order you off the property, and you'll be fired....

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:35 pm

And yet, the Communists in our GubMent eventually sell, or give all of it away to China, who gives it away to any anti-USA country that wants it.....

I seen stuff in magazines that was old, old news to me. We were threatened with prison. Yet Mc namara could sing and we had to deny any knowledge.
This is what gets me about the Hillary E-mail scandal. We would be looking at prison for doing one one hundredth of what she did and she might well be our next president!!
I will go farther and say Bill Clinton nor O`bama would never have qualified to be a Lockheed guard when I hired in. That comes from, "I didn't inhale" nor O`bama freely admitting to using drugs in college. They can be presidents but not guards. At least back in my day.

92&94 · Post by **92&94** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:58 pm

Booger Bill wrote:They can be presidents but not guards. At least back in my day.

Bill, that is the best quick description of any politician I've heard this week! Maybe even this year!

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:49 pm

Nobody likes walking around with somebody else's stick up their rear

Sign the thing to keep your job.

Then do what you want to do, with a conscious view toward protecting your assets.

It you're worried about it coming up later, make a note about signing under duress.

If it's a problem, park off the company property.

Easy.

mohavesam · Post by **mohavesam** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:14 pm

Easy, I agree.
My old aerospace/defense company had the same policy reviewed on vehicles, after one inspector sat in his car at lunchtime and re-decorated his interior in brain matter ala 357 Magnum. Parking spaces are real estate, and that costs money. Companies pay that money, not the employees.

BTW, not one of the employees wearing a knife or multi-tool ever got fired, despite the "No Weapons Allowed" signs...

During hunting seasons there were an awful lot of vehicles parked on public streets. It was worth the walk.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:29 am

FWiedner wrote:Nobody likes walking around with somebody else's stick up their rear

Sign the thing to keep your job.

Then do what you want to do, with a conscious view toward protecting your assets.

It you're worried about it coming up later, make a note about signing under duress.

If it's a problem, park off the company property.

Easy.

This is the route I'll have to take.
No place on the property are there signs posted either.

Things are getting plum rediculous now. Wife and I went to see a movie yesterday afternoon, and the ticket taker asked to see inside my wife's purse! I said NO, WHY WOULD YOU NEED TO SEE IN HER PURSE? He said to make sure we weren't bringing in any food or candy! I said you've got to be kidding me??? Laughed at him and walked away to our theater.

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:25 am

Unless you work on a military base or government controlled contract job I would do what you want. I am not talking here about carrying concealed against rules in the plant but having a gun in your car that is otherwise legal except for company rules. If you quit you don't have a paycheck. Until they fire you, you have that job and that check. I seriously doubt the company would try to have you arrested if somehow they found out you had a gun in your car against THEIR rules. They would lose if they even tried. My closest friend worked with me. He was new on the job. The chief instructed him to check a certain outside the gate company owned parking lot closer as there had been some recent thefts. He caught a probably illegal stealing a car battery. Bill called for a captain to come out. They were busy and sent another new guard. Then Bill called to send out a Burbank cop. The cop had Bill make a citizens arrest. The next day when the chief heard it he called Bill in and chewed azz. Said, "How do you think it looks a Billion dollar company prosecuting a poor peon over a battery?" Bill got nose to nose with the chief and pointed out how he had ordered him to watch the lot etc. Bill almost quit over it but eventually retired there.
The top main thing that was pushed to uncover was drugs. I have seen undercover deputy's hired as factory workers to get info and then have a big raid. I always wondered if they got to keep the pay from double dipping. I have found in life there is nothing cut and dried.

Post by **David** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:45 pm

They can't arrest you but they absolutely can fire you if it's against policy to have a otherwise legal concealed carry kept in your car on company property.

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:07 am

Do what ya want and keep your mouth shut about your gun hobby.

Unless they actually catch ya with it, you're fine. if they do, you're
probably fired.

I've carried a gun many, many times in areas I'm not supposed to
and never had a problem. Ya know, driving within 50 yards of a school,
going to the local rural Post Office for stamps, into the office late at night
to fix a computer problem, etc..

I tend to keep a farily low profile about guns. Once in awhile I wear my
fancy Montana Silversmiths NRA belt buckle. Most folks don't even notice
it. All of those that have have been shooters!

-Stretch

Post by **David** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:19 am

stretch wrote:Do what ya want and keep your mouth shut about your gun hobby.

Unless they actually catch ya with it, you're fine. if they do, you're
probably fired.

I've carried a gun many, many times in areas I'm not supposed to
and never had a problem. Ya know, driving within 50 yards of a school,
going to the local rural Post Office for stamps, into the office late at night
to fix a computer problem, etc..

I tend to keep a farily low profile about guns. Once in awhile I wear my
fancy Montana Silversmiths NRA belt buckle. Most folks don't even notice
it. All of those that have have been shooters!

-Stretch

driving within 50 yards of a school,
What state is that? I can park in the school parking lot and even take my gun out and stow it, but just can't go it. Driving by a school restriction is just BS.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:14 am

David wrote:
stretch wrote:Do what ya want and keep your mouth shut about your gun hobby.

Unless they actually catch ya with it, you're fine. if they do, you're
probably fired.

I've carried a gun many, many times in areas I'm not supposed to
and never had a problem. Ya know, driving within 50 yards of a school,
going to the local rural Post Office for stamps, into the office late at night
to fix a computer problem, etc..

I tend to keep a farily low profile about guns. Once in awhile I wear my
fancy Montana Silversmiths NRA belt buckle. Most folks don't even notice
it. All of those that have have been shooters!

-Stretch
driving within 50 yards of a school,
What state is that? I can park in the school parking lot and even take my gun out and stow it, but just can't go it. Driving by a school restriction is just BS.

Yes, it is a BS "law", but it is, technically, a Federal Law that one can be prosecuted for. FWIR The FEDERAL statute is "no guns within 1000ft of a school". Because that includes Residential areas, Sane Prosecutors WILL NOT go there unless there is an active shooter incident.

But the law is there... and can be used against you at will.

Post by **David** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:43 am

Old Ironsights wrote:
David wrote:
stretch wrote:Do what ya want and keep your mouth shut about your gun hobby.

Unless they actually catch ya with it, you're fine. if they do, you're
probably fired.

I've carried a gun many, many times in areas I'm not supposed to
and never had a problem. Ya know, driving within 50 yards of a school,
going to the local rural Post Office for stamps, into the office late at night
to fix a computer problem, etc..

I tend to keep a farily low profile about guns. Once in awhile I wear my
fancy Montana Silversmiths NRA belt buckle. Most folks don't even notice
it. All of those that have have been shooters!

-Stretch
driving within 50 yards of a school,
What state is that? I can park in the school parking lot and even take my gun out and stow it, but just can't go it. Driving by a school restriction is just BS.
Yes, it is a BS "law", but it is, technically, a Federal Law that one can be prosecuted for. FWIR The FEDERAL statute is "no guns within 1000ft of a school". Because that includes Residential areas, Sane Prosecutors WILL NOT go there unless there is an active shooter incident.

But the law is there... and can be used against you at will.

Well our state law SPECIFICALLY spells out you can go into any public (including schools) parking lot but you must leave the firearm in the vehicle, you can however get out of the vehicle to stow it.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:25 pm

David wrote:
Old Ironsights wrote:
David wrote:
stretch wrote:Do what ya want and keep your mouth shut about your gun hobby.

Unless they actually catch ya with it, you're fine. if they do, you're
probably fired.

I've carried a gun many, many times in areas I'm not supposed to
and never had a problem. Ya know, driving within 50 yards of a school,
going to the local rural Post Office for stamps, into the office late at night
to fix a computer problem, etc..

I tend to keep a farily low profile about guns. Once in awhile I wear my
fancy Montana Silversmiths NRA belt buckle. Most folks don't even notice
it. All of those that have have been shooters!

-Stretch
driving within 50 yards of a school,
What state is that? I can park in the school parking lot and even take my gun out and stow it, but just can't go it. Driving by a school restriction is just BS.
Yes, it is a BS "law", but it is, technically, a Federal Law that one can be prosecuted for. FWIR The FEDERAL statute is "no guns within 1000ft of a school". Because that includes Residential areas, Sane Prosecutors WILL NOT go there unless there is an active shooter incident.

But the law is there... and can be used against you at will.
Well our state law SPECIFICALLY spells out you can go into any public (including schools) parking lot but you must leave the firearm in the vehicle, you can however get out of the vehicle to stow it.

Your State Law is meaningless iff the Feds decide to enforce "Their "Law"".

(For now) The .gov overlords don't feel that the have the clout to oppose Sheriffs or Oathkeepers willing to defend the 2nd and 10th Ammendments... but that may change.

Post by **David** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:30 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:

Your State Law is meaningless iff the Feds decide to enforce "Their "Law"".

(For now) The .gov overlords don't feel that the have the clout to oppose Sheriffs or Oathkeepers willing to defend the 2nd and 10th Ammendments... but that may change.

[/quote][/quote][/quote]

Maybe but as you say I don't see a lot of Feds around which is why we should also impose Voter ID if the feds don't like try sending one to every voting booth and when they are arrested and held for 24 hours for interfering with the vote then can go back home.

It's time for the States to have some b...s
If I was a Governor you would here "What are you going to do, spank me?" a lot!

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:39 pm

I don't approve of it (fed "law" or fed .gov) but I'm just saying...

Until people wake up and realize that the fedgov is NOT there to protect your Freedom, then they have to accept that they are and will be "un-convicetd" Felons.

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:47 pm

The fed`s set some of the rules on our dept. In all those 35 years I don't recall seeing a gov. spook enforce search`s or whatever themselves. Their job was to investigate and question employees "misadventures" on and off the job. On any large dept you will find individuals that are good at what "interest`s" them and some of us no good at all at what they don't like. I was awful at finding guns. I was good at having things go smoothly for the company. Some few felt they needed to find stuff to get noticed.

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:48 pm

Yeah, I thought it was 1000 feet, but in my dotage couldn't remember whether
it was State or Federal. They could arrest THOUSANDS of folks every hunting season
in the State of Maine for violating that one. There isn't enough jail space in the State
to house all of the offenders! Just another Federal gun law on the books that no one
has any intention of ever enforcing.

I think that in Manchester, Maine, I could carry a concealed weapon into the Post
Office and technically be busted for both carrying in the PO AND carrying within 1,000
feet of a school!

There used to be a butcher's (Ballard's JUST closed for good!

)
just around the corner from the elementary school. LOTS and LOTS of hunters have
carried firearms right past that school for DECADES to get their game processed. No one, to
the best of my knowledge, has EVAH been called on it.

Great to see the Feds right on the job keeping us safer, eh?

-Tom

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:56 pm

Nope, it isn't right! However, I work on a Federal Reservation and vehicle searches are a real possibility and I have consented to many. A good job is a good job and provides for my family. 10 yrs ago, I don't even think CCW permits were common, I honestly do not feel like I am sacrificing my safety by not carrying when I go to work. I guess you have 2 options, carry a form of less than lethal or continue to carry and face all the drama that follows if you do get caught.

Post by **David** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:25 am

horsesoldier03 wrote:Nope, it isn't right! However, I work on a Federal Reservation and vehicle searches are a real possibility and I have consented to many. A good job is a good job and provides for my family. 10 yrs ago, I don't even think CCW permits were common, I honestly do not feel like I am sacrificing my safety by not carrying when I go to work. I guess you have 2 options, carry a form of less than lethal or continue to carry and face all the drama that follows if you do get caught.

I also word for the feds, there's not reason (law) that says I can't keep my firearm in my vehicle but the big cheese says we can't. He's a Canadian ...., so he's just an anti-gun paranoid ....

I think it blows I can't keep my firearm in my truck but I looked and looked until I found a place I could "pop" and replaced the lock-in with a magnetic latch (for babies and cabinets) which operates with a earth magnet which I stick to a piece of metal under the dash. I put the earth magnet in the exact place and it opens. I've had my truck searched (without the firearm) and they've never found it.

Do I bring my firearm to work, intentionally no, but I can't say I haven't forgotten.

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:33 pm

They can search vehicles coming in on their property, however most places like that have parking lots usually inside and outside the gates. When push comes to shove in my experience not all are fired if discovered but they probably are given stiff warnings where they wouldn't try it the second time if they want to keep their job. As always a lot probably depends on how well they are liked on the job. I have been out of the loop almost 16 years now, so what do I know?