rings on 348 brass

[ehsa]

i know that the bright ring you see on the head of a rifle case shows the case stretching from shooting and full length resizing but do you guys discard them at the first apperance of the ring which is what i have or reload them one more time.i shoot 348 in an original winchester 71 and a browning 71.it is just that 348 brass is hard to come by and fairly costly yet i wouldnt jepordize safety.right now i have a good stock of 348 brass so mabey i should toss it.i am only shooting at the range so the loads are not hot. 200 grain hornady and 62 grains rl-19.thanks john

[earlmck]

When I see that bright ring on my 25/20 (the one rifle I still own that is prone to doing the head separation thing) I toss them. Because the next shot is going to see some percentage of full head separations and they can be a pain to fish out of the chamber.

If you want to check, you can take a piece of wire, make a short 90 degree bend on the end, sharpen the end of this bend, and use it to feel the groove which develops inside the case at the separation area. If you don't have the groove there you maybe can get away with at least one more shot from the case.

Does your rifle develop head separation issues even when you don't fully resize the case? Though with two rifles I suppose you have been forced to full-length resize...

[Chuck 100 yd]

I find that ring does not always indicate the case is stretching and can be caused by the sizing die as that is the farthest down that the sizing die can size the case.
I would take a bent wire and check the inside of the case to try to find an indication of a possible separation or saw a case lengthwise and inspect.
Use a case length comparator to measure a new or reloaded round headspace`s length compared to a fired case to see if the case`s shoulder is being set back to far or the chamber is long. After fire forming the case, the shoulder should be set back a minimum to insure easy feeding only. I would do the minimum amount of shoulder set back. Maybe 2-3 thousandths.

[ehsa]

thanks for the response. i will try the wire.these cases were full length resized because they are for lever action rifles.the ring was not present till i resized them.and most folk recommend full length resizing for lever actions.some of them were factory rounds fired and reloaded once. some were brand new brass loaded twice.john

[AJMD429]

I find that ring does not always indicate the case is stretching and can be caused by the sizing die as that is the farthest down that the sizing die can size the case.
I would take a bent wire and check the inside of the case to try to find an indication of a possible separation or saw a case lengthwise and inspect.
Use a case length comparator to measure a new or reloaded round headspace`s length compared to a fired case to see if the case`s shoulder is being set back to far or the chamber is long. After fire forming the case, the shoulder should be set back a minimum to insure easy feeding only. I would do the minimum amount of shoulder set back. Maybe 2-3 thousandths.

What he said.

ALSO - ask your dentist for a 90-degree bent Dental Pick (one with a short enough stub that it will go through the neck of your cases - shouldn't be a problem for yours, but 22 caliber cases with long necks can require a short-stub pick). The dental picks are hard enough and pointy enough that it seems easier to feel for the grooves. Still, if in doubt, saw up one of the worst and closely inspect it.

[Chuck 100 yd]

If you saw a case or two, Use a very fine toothed hacksaw and then draw file the exposed raw edges. Any thinning of the brass at that point will normally be easily seen. It is very difficult if not impossible to measure with and kind of mic/caliper due to the curvature and shape of the case.

[flatnose]

Hi John,
There is no need to f/l resize the cases. Keep firing them until you cant chamber the fired brass, then bump the necks back a little as the other posts have mentioned.
If you go to the beartooth bullet site they show you how to make a simple gauge from a large nut, and along with measuring calipers, you can see how much to set the necks back. http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/index.htm
A lot of, if not most of, the limited production brass from the past 15 or 20 years, is of a lesser quality than early brass. I have had neck splits on the first firing, approx 3% , so I maybe a good idea to anneal the necks every 2 or three firings.
How is that rl19 working out accuracy wise?

[ehsa]

thank you all for your help.i did use a paper clip and i did have a dental pick and wasnt able to feel anything.i noticed that when the pick or paper clip bottomed out it was always exactly to the web or bottom of the case about 1/4 inch up from the base of the case where the ring is.i will also next time try partial resizing using a sharpie or something to blacken the case.i am fairly new to lever actions and some had said for function sake in these rifles always fl resize.anyway i believe the ring is where the die quit resizing the case as the ring is at the same place outside the case which corrosponds to the same place as inside the bottom of the case.also the rl-19 powder is proving to be very accurate.again thank you all for your helpful advice.john

[earlmck]

Hmmm... John, if you're not feeling a groove inside your case with a wire feeler then I'm thinking Chuck 100 yd is right: you've got a sizing mark and not a headspace-stretch mark.

And I ran your load through QuickLoad and old QL thinks that is about a 35K psi load, which is quite mild in a round with 46K psi SAAMI maximums.

I'd say go forth and shoot with those cases with full confidence. If we are wrong and you get a head separation, that wire feeler will almost always reach up inside the front part of the case that is stuck in your chamber and grab hold of the case at the mouth with enough "grab" to extract the case. As you may guess, the old Scotsman here has been known to keep cases for one more firing than I should have, or didn't notice the "ring" (sometimes it doesn't show up real obvious). So I have had more experience removing that "baseless case" than would a more intelligent person.

And when the wire feeler didn't get a good enough "grab" to pull out the case, a wire brush on a cleaning rod pushed through from the muzzle has got the job done. I have never (yet) had to go to more extreme measures.

And as to your case sizing -- just because it is a levergun doesn't mean you have to get ridiculous with the sizing. The objective of case sizing is first to get the case to go back in the gun easily. And second, to squeeze the neck down enough to firmly hold the bullet. I'd bet that with your light loads the cases go back in the gun quite easily without sizing, so all you are needing to do is run the case far enough in the die to get enough neck sized down to hold your bullet firmly. You may have life somewhat complicated if you have two different rifles using out of the same brass pile, but even then I'd guess you wouldn't have to screw the die all the way down to the shell holder to get cases working in both rifles. And you just about have to screw the die all the way to the shell holder to be setting the neck back enough to get that head separation effect.

[ehsa]

erlmck: i appreciate for the information about the pressure im running in these loads.they are mild and not for hunting.also thank you for the tip about removing any stuck rifle case.john

[BILLYDIXON]

I use to use a paper clip but found out later on .303 British that I would miss some. So now I use a small flashlight. I haven't missed one since. Just my .02.