5 "Must Have" Military rifles

getitdone1 · Post by **getitdone1** » Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:26 pm

Here's an excellent video for someone just starting out with their military rifle collection. This includes myself.

Seemed special to me and wanted to share it and expect it might be helpful for some in this group.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzEA0lNZCrY

Some truly great guns shown here.

Don

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:39 pm

I didn't go back and check but I thought he started out saying the 5 must have bolt action rifles. I was surprised then that the garrand was on the list. I would agree that it belongs on the 5 greatest list, but like I mentioned, thought he said bolt guns. With that said, and with the inclusion of the garrand, I'm surprised the aK-47 was not on his list. Interesting choices nonethe less

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:32 pm

I prefer my military rifles to be sporterized.

1903 Springfield or Mauser, preferably.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:02 am

He mentions 5 best bolt action military rifles, and then throws a Garand in there -

I almost turned it off when the first rifle he grabbed was a Mosin

With some exceptions (big exception to a few Mosins some folks have posted on here that are legit big $$ rifles , and rare) , these are like the fat girls of the military rifle hierarchy- i'd much rather see that choice replaced with an 03-A3

Why that comparison? --- Fat girls are something that we either,sometimes get stuck with for one reason or another , - or perhaps we grow to love individual examples over time , --- its the rare bird out there who leaves the house on Friday night with the intention of making a 200+ pounder his date though (but there are brave souls out there who do just that), but sometimes things just happen that way

sometimes people drag home Mosins too , and learn to love them over time too, but i think the main attraction is the $100 spam cans of cheap , corrosive ammo --- I felt the same way about the SKS's 20 years ago

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:15 am

Chip Hailstone, who is in the TV show Life Below Zero (and posts on The High Road and Bushcraft USA as "Caribou") uses a Finnish Mosin for most of his hunting, as does his Native wife in Northwest AK. They are subisistance hunters, hunting year round to eat. He's pretty fond of the Mosins. He has a vid of his wife shooting a rather large grizzly with one in one of his posts on The High Road a year or two ago.

You can read one of Caribous post about the rifles on this page (archived). It's a little ways down from the top. They mostly use ball ammo, but have certain types that work well for their uses.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/inde ... 27978.html

His wifes first bear with hers,

He talks about the mosin as a bear gun in this post. It looks like he's killed 11 Browns with his.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/inde ... 30656.html

Canuck Bob · Post by **Canuck Bob** » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:36 pm

I'm not a collector but I'm a bit surprised by the Mosin comment above. I may be wrong but the largest land war I can think of is the Eastern Front during WW2. That platform was instrumental in winning that war. Regardless of the politics of the time it deserves a high placement in martial weapon history.

An excellent example of Russian battle technology of the last century. Simple to the point of crude, easy to produce, work in any climate, and sit in crates for decades and still be grab and go reliable. It was a formula that caused a lot of grief and concern since WW2.

getitdone1 · Post by **getitdone1** » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:37 pm

I can understand why some people might be turn-off with the Russian Mosin since it is a gun from a country that has often opposed us over the years.

Have to remember though, the Russians and that gun gave us and our other allies a whole lot of help with the use of that gun. Helps also to know that Russia suffered, by far, the most casualties of any country from WWII.

I'm just getting into military guns but for a bolt I'm pretty sure, already, that my favorite is the Lee Enfield. Like to find a "Jungle Carbine" chambered in .308--or, the standard model shortened in a neat fashion.

I could be wrong but I don't think another military rifle has ever served it's country as long as the Lee Enfield. That says a whole lot about the gun.

Don

jkbrea · Post by **jkbrea** » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:44 pm

Not to change the subject but that is one BIG bear! I know the photo angle does a lot but....wow. And no where to hide if you miss

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:05 pm

jkbrea wrote:Not to change the subject but that is one BIG bear! I know the photo angle does a lot but....wow. And no where to hide if you miss

That bear is as big as a SmartCar!

I know that the hunter in the photo would beg to differ with me, but a 7.62 x54 is not on my short list when i think of "bear rifles", -- just as the 7x57 Mauser does not pop into my head when i think elephant rifles either (although it helped make Walter Dalrymple Maitland Bell a legend ----- and with a name like that, no wonder he went by "Karamojo" instead )

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:15 pm

Canuck Bob wrote:I'm not a collector but I'm a bit surprised by the Mosin comment above. I may be wrong but the largest land war I can think of is the Eastern Front during WW2. That platform was instrumental in winning that war. .

Strictly a personal opinion on the Mosin's ---

----- although i would add, (and it goes without saying) -- that i dont think the Mosin platform was instrumental in winning that war, but rather the grim and steadfast determination of thousands of brave men and women -- and i think the results would have been the same if they had been armed with Carcano's , Mauser variants, or anything else relevant during the time period

Tell a Cossack he will soon have to switch from Voodka to Jagermeister and watch the fur fly

JB · Post by JB » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:07 pm

I didn't watch the video, nor will I probably take the time to do so. But if we're talking collecting, a WWII collection wouldn't be complete without at least on Mosin. They played far too an important role in the war to ignore. They were well tough reliable battle rifles in their day.

wolfdog · Post by **wolfdog** » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:26 pm

Streetstar wrote: i'd much rather see that choice replaced with an 03-A3

He did include the 03 and 03-a3, they are Mauser variants.

44shooter · Post by **44shooter** » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:39 pm

Streetstar wrote:
Canuck Bob wrote:
Tell a Cossack he will soon have to switch from Voodka to Jagermeister and watch the fur fly

Gross! I would be upset too!

MNs are not my favorites but as a historically relevant rifle, I think it has to make the list. And at around $100, why not? If that is too crude, one can get a Remington or Finnish made one.

I think Mausers are the most elegant (Springfields and Arisakas are really Mauser variants) and SMLE's are the best combat bolt.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:50 am

Mosins saw combat service in World War 1, the Bolshevik Revolution and following civil war, including by U.S troops (bet you didn't know that...)securing the supply lines for the "White" royalist troops, the 1919-1920 Poland-Russia War (both sides), the 1939-1940 Winter War (both sides, Finns and Soviets), World War Two, the long-running Ukrainian-Soviet insurrection (Ukrainians fighting for the Germans, an entire division was still engaged fighting a rearguard action against the Soviet army until about 1950 as guerrillas), the Korean War, Vietnam, and various other random small insurrections across the world where Soviets shipped arms.

Some were in use in Afghanistan and still show up at times (we've had guys even capture an M1 Garand over there).

They aren't pretty, they're not quick to use, but the Mosin as an individual rifle with less than four major variants has seen more combat use than any other bolt action. The Mauser would be a close second due to sheer numbers of models adopted and the L-E not too far behind it.

The Lee-Enfields were in service from about 1910-1953 in England, 1957 in Australia and in reserve use for many years after. The Indians kept them in service into the 1960s and the Ishapore No.2 is still in use as a reserve police rifle at least up to the Mumbai massacre.

wolfdog · Post by **wolfdog** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:36 am

Don't forget the Russo-Japan war, pretty sure 1891s where well represented.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:04 am

While i have my personal opinions on the Mosins

I admit, the prospect of having a Mosin (or an SKS/AK variant) tucked away in my saferoom with spam cans of ammo stacked to the ceiling , sounds appealing in a sick way

Maybe its the entry level pricing, but a lot of my opinion is based on the characters i see at the range with surplus Com-Bloc rifles of all sorts and the shooting methods they use --- I remember vividly a guy in his early 20's showing up once with his Mosin to try out , - along with a carload of buddies , none of which were shooting --- he had no targets, or earplugs -- I guess the mission was to simply see if he could fire a couple of magazine loads into a dirt berm

My antenna goes up when i see 4 non participants just sitting in a sedan drinking or smoking grass while their buddy shoots --- it makes me stop what i'm doing and inconspicuously observe, while keeping a hand close to my own boomstick

The SKS and AK guys nearly got our range shut down a few years back (when ammo was still cheap) by bump-firing every chance they got and alarming what few folks lived out there who thought they were filming a Chuck Norris movie or something at the range

--- so while i recognize the Mosin as a historically significant firearm, -- these are the reasons i have the perceptions i have -- some of the sniper variants and shorter barrelled carbines are darn cool though

44-40 Willy · Post by **44-40 Willy** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:58 am

MrMurphy wrote:The Lee-Enfields were in service from about 1910-1953 in England, 1957 in Australia and in reserve use for many years after. The Indians kept them in service into the 1960s and the Ishapore No.2 is still in use as a reserve police rifle at least up to the Mumbai massacre.

Mine is a 1908.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:09 pm

The Lee-Metfords went into service around 1887ish? And the switchover began after the Boer wars. I don't have the exact dates in front of me but the Lee series rifles in one form or another were in service for around 70 years.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:39 pm

If you don't like the 18' long 91/33, the 20" '44s (folding bayonet included) can be had for a whopping $200.

Add that much again in 440rd "Spam Cans" of ammo ($90 ea) and you have a heckova "bury it for TETOWAKI" gun...

If I hadn't already owned, and modified, a $90 91/33, I'd be buying a '44 or two...

BrentD · Post by **BrentD** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:47 pm

Gotta admit, I can't make myself listen to him for 11 minutes. Did he have a flintlock in there? If not, he missed the boat entirely.

These "gotta haves", "essential lists" etc, just bore me to tears

Canuck Bob · Post by **Canuck Bob** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:36 pm

My military collectable is a Lee Enfield No. 5 known as the Jungle Carbine. It's build date is during WW2 so it is technically a war relic but not issued I'm sure. My buddy's Dad had a real nice Ross rifle he bought when he mustered out of the Royal Canadian Navy corvette service. I remember it as in new condition and now realize it was a special Canadian rifle.

I also liked the little M1 carbine. I don't know much about them but shot once quite a bit. A real handy gun up close and a very deadly rifle.

My only wish list is the FN C1 but not a possibility here.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:50 pm

Canuck Bob wrote:My military collectable is a Lee Enfield No. 5 known as the Jungle Carbine. re.

Now thats one i wouldnt mind owning myself! I love the tanker and carbine configurations (much as i love shorty trappers in the leverguns)

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:12 pm

Is the model 44 THE Mosin to have? Never owned a Mosin but there has been something drawing me to them for sometime.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:49 pm

I think the 44's are known to be loud and kick noticeably more than the longer rifles.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:04 am

Having shot every major variant (pre-Revolution 1891, 91/30, M38, M44, a couple of Finn M39s and the sniper models of the 91/30) yes, the M38 and M44 kick noticeably more, at least off the bench, and have a definitely noticeable muzzle blast.

Not unshootable, but everyone around you will know you fired....

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:21 am

rjohns94 wrote:Is the model 44 THE Mosin to have? Never owned a Mosin but there has been something drawing me to them for sometime.

Is that the one that is the Russian version of the Jungle carbine?

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:46 am

http://thebigblogofguns.files.wordpress ... family.jpg

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:35 am

Old Ironsights wrote:http://thebigblogofguns.files.wordpress ... family.jpg

Aggggghhhhhhh ! My eyes !

I opened that hoping for some cheesecake photos or more pics of people getting hit with Coke bottles, and i got THAT

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:13 am

MrMurphy wrote:The Lee-Enfields were in service from about 1910-1953 in England, 1957 in Australia and in reserve use for many years after. The Indians kept them in service into the 1960s and the Ishapore No.2 is still in use as a reserve police rifle at least up to the Mumbai massacre.

The Lee-Enfield 303 is still in use in Canada among the Canadian Rangers. http://www.watchersofthenorth.com/home/rangers-today The Canadian Rangers (often mistakenly called the Arctic Rangers) are a sub-component of the Canadian Forces reserve that provide a military presence in Canada's sparsely settled northern, coastal, and isolated areas. Formally established on May 23, 1947, a primary role of this part-time force is to conduct surveillance or sovereignty patrols (SOV PATS) as required. I should also add that if the wheels ever come off the wagon up here, there will be an awful lot of Lee Enfields coming out of the mothballs in the hands of the average Joe.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:37 am

Can I have one of theses Mosin rifles now in NYS, or is that now even going too far?

Laughing cause don't want you see me crying.

OK, for deer hunting which one fellers? You guys got me wanting one!

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:22 am

madman4570 wrote:Can I have one of theses Mosin rifles now in NYS, or is that now even going too far? Laughing cause don't want you see me crying.
OK, for deer hunting which one fellers? You guys got me wanting one!

I imagine with good bullets, any of 'em would have enough pop for deer if they can take down a bear the size of a skid steer.

I looked up the Model 44 at Buds Guns --- they are a little more expensive than the model 30's , but is likely the one i'd lean toward (21'' or so barrel )
These guys' havent got me wanting one, but piqued my interest enough to check ammo prices (7.62 x 39 is still cheaper it looks like, but not by much -- 5.45 x 39 is cheaper still, but the supply of firearms chambered in that cartridge seems to be thinning out and getting more expensive)

AIM is sold out on the Shmidt-Rubin rifles though -- that actually looks like a rifle i would be moderately interested in if i could inspect one first --- (but also throws out the idea of cheap ammo

)

But who am i kiddin' -- i could have all the cheap ammo in the world, doesn't mean i'd shoot it if i didnt like the rifle much --- i have several cases of 5.56 untouched , because the idea of just indiscriminately sending rounds downrange doesnt appeal to me as much anymore

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:39 am

Thanks Doug good info.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:17 pm

I have one in the box, in the wrapper, I have not had it out or taken the cosmoline off of it.
got the 440 round spam can with it.
Drive down to Targetmasters and but me a case of Federal .22 LR.
Send the ammo to me and I will send the rifle, ammo, and $100.00 to you.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:29 pm

Mescalero wrote:I have one in the box, in the wrapper, I have not had it out or taken the cosmoline off of it.
got the 440 round spam can with it.
Drive down to Targetmasters and but me a case of Federal .22 LR.
Send the ammo to me and I will send the rifle, ammo, and $100.00 to you.

That is an awesome deal for someone that has bought a gun or uses their range.
For me it would be over 500 miles, then guess what any ammo I get must be from NYS gun dealer.
Like that 440 rd can
Otherwise that is more than fair deal.

yooper2 · Post by **yooper2** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:29 am

For two years in college the only rifle I had was a Mosin 91/30. I didn't have a place to keep guns so I bought the Mosin and it lived in my truck with a spam can of ammo. Shot a pile of game with it, all with surplus full patch ammo. I never used anything but neck shots on deer but a solid body hit would flatten a coyote or feral dog. When I got a place where I could store guns it got moth balled for a few years but it still shoots 2-2.5" groups at hundred yards. Nowadays it's out in the barn with a couple of stripper clips just in case. I'd like to find a Finnish Nagant for CBA military shoots. They're ugly, clunky, and strange but they are also cheap, reliable, and capable of perfectly adequate hunting accuracy.

Eric

getitdone1 · Post by **getitdone1** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:43 am

Seen a Lee Enfield Jungle Carbine in .308 and the seller said shooting .308 hunting ammo in it would wear out the action. He said use only 7.62 military hard ball.

Really? Cannot understand how Winchester .308 factory 'hunting ammo' would hurt it.

Too, I wonder if extraction could be a problem since the 308 ctg. does not have the big rim of the original 303. Suppose this would depend completely on the ability of the guy who did the conversion.

Don

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:29 am

getitdone1 wrote:Seen a Lee Enfield Jungle Carbine in .308 and the seller said shooting .308 hunting ammo in it would wear out the action. He said use only 7.62 military hard ball.

Really? Cannot understand how Winchester .308 factory 'hunting ammo' would hurt it.

Too, I wonder if extraction could be a problem since the 308 ctg. does not have the big rim of the original 303. Suppose this would depend completely on the ability of the guy who did the conversion.

Don

308 commercial ammo is a bit "hotter" than mil spec 7.62 x 51

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:55 am

Get it done: what you saw was probably a cut down/altered Ishapore 2A or 2A1, originally designed and fabricated for the 7.62 NATO round.

The Lee-Enfield #5 –AKA Jungle Carbine – was never chambered in 7.62 NATO.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:06 pm

Yup.

The Ishapores were made of stronger steel and were not 'conversions' they were factory built 7.62 Nato rifles. If you convert a .303 to a .308 eventually, bad things may happen (receiver stretching, a kaboom, etc) from what I understand.

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:27 pm

During the 1960s, the British Ministry of Defence converted a number of Lee-Enfield No. 4 rifles to 7.62x51mm NATO as part of a program to retain the Lee-Enfield as a reserve weapon. These were re-designated as the L8 series being fitted with 7.62 mm NATO barrels, new bolt faces and extractor claws, new rear sights and new 10-round 7.62 mm NATO magazines.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:41 pm

That's a bit different than a 'random Bubba conversion".

getitdone1 · Post by **getitdone1** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:36 am

I'm continuing to spend time reading articles about the battle rifles of WWII. I didn't know what France or Italy used but found the French used a MAS-36 chambered for the 7.5X54mm French cartridge and the Italians used the Carcano M1891 chambered for the 6.5X52mm Mannlicher-Carcano.

1. Is that French rifle a good one? Read a few were chambered for the .308.

2. Was the Carcano and it's cartridge the same one that killed president Kennedy?

Went to a gun auction Jan. 1 and saw a really neat Mauser carbine. Believe it said Yugoslav on it and it was shorter than the one used by the Germans in WWII. Was that the Yugoslav M1924? A really neat, handy and well made gun and if I hadn't had to wait for hours for it to be auctioned I might have bought it.

I know several other minor guns were used by the allied and axis countries but my main concern is with the major ones. I often get side-tracked with articles about WWII. All very interesting. I read sometime in 1940 it was thought that Britain might lose to the Germans. The seriousness and impact of that war just can't be fully realized by most of us living today. Our parents and grandparents sure felt it.

Edit: Back again to say I've watched videos of the MAS-36 and the MAS-49-56 and this last one is a semi-auto that shoots the same ctg. as the MAS-36. Good looking, short and handy semi-auto with a fairly powerful round but not sure if it can also be converted to .308. They say the MAS-36 is not real accurate but I'd guess load selection and some tweaking would make it accurate enough.

Don

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:50 pm

The MAS-36 was as good a rifle as any Mauser, despite the weird bolt handle. The French FR-F1 and F2 sniper rifles still use the MAS action to this day, and they have racked up a long string of bad guys. France had a huge budget cut postwar, understandably, and had to field both a new cartridge, new rifle AND a new machine gun simultaneously. They never fully re-armed before getting overrun, but the French troops had a solid, dependable piece in their hands if they had a 36. No manual safety, but that was in line with French military practice and training of the previous several decades (chamber empty until going into action).

The MAS-49 and 49/56 served in the same role as the FAL and M14 and have a long, proven battle history in Tunisia, Vietnam and Africa. Some were converted to 7.62 Nato, but not a huge number.

For the basics:

England and Canada: SMLE (No.1 Mk III) and No.4 Mk1
Australia, South Africa and India: SMLE
US: M1 Garand, M1 carbine, M1903 and M1903A3 Springfields (USMC and the A3s saw a lot of service with rear area troops, as well as with allied nations) and the M1917 Enfield (allied troops, such as the FFI, British Home Guard and others)
Italians: All the various flavors of the '91 Carcano, which is indeed the same rifle reputedly used to nail Kennedy. The Carcano has a bad rep in the US, but was a strong, functional rifle with good accuracy, and saw heavy combat use in the Austro-Italian campaign of WW1 (fighting in river valleys, frozen mountaintops, etc....they're still finding mummified bodies frozen in the cold up there) as well as in Africa. Not equal to the Lee-Enfields or Mauser, but a solid, fairly well-liked (by the Italians) piece.

Japanese: Type 38 (6.5mm) and Type 99 (7.7mm) Arisakas. Strong, well-built rifles on the Mauser design. The Type 38 was also used in WW1 by the Brits (who sent them to the Arabs running around with Lawrence) by the Russians (WW1 secondary issue, they liked them) the Czech Legion, and others.

Russians: 91/30, M38 and M44 rifle and carbines of the Mosin-Nagant family, as well as the SVT-38 and SVT-40 semiauto rifles, though those had issues and were withdrawn from service before the war was over mostly.

Germany: Mauser 98k and every other Mauser variant they could get their hands on (Czech, Yugo, Polish, etc) as well as the Gewehr 41 and 43.

getitdone1 · Post by **getitdone1** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:42 pm

MrMurphy,

Thanks for your information.

Found guys on internet who are getting good accuracy out of the MAS-36 and the 49-56 semi-auto. That's what I suspected. Believe there's a tendency to label any gun made by the French as poor or worse. I've enjoyed discovering these two guns I knew nothing about until today.

They say the rear locking lugs on the MAS-36 are intentional and make the gun more reliable in dirty conditions. The Lee-Enfield has the same and that's pretty good company to be in. Was surprised and glad to find that.

The MAS-36 is 3-4 inches shorter than the other country's battle rifles and I like that. Wish it had a safety but expect a good gunsmith could fix that without too much cost. Found it's cartridge is as powerful as our .308 and that gives it an edge over the .303 British. Not enough difference to matter, really.

Some say the MAS-36 is ugly. Not to me. I think it has a more modern look. There is one part I don't like the looks of and that's the bolt handle--but I'll take it. It puts the bolt handle where it should be, close to the trigger and when pulled back good clearance from shooter's face.

And you're right. Both of these guns have been converted to .308. I'd want to be cautious about who did the conversion before buying one.

Good to hear you rate the MAS-36 with the Mausers. I don't doubt you but I'll bet many would disagree. And....I'll bet most of these doubters are as ignorant of these guns as I was until today.

Thanks too for listing all of the major battle rifles used by the major countries involved in WWII.

Don

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:11 pm

I have a MAS 49/56.
Someone forgot to tell it that it was no good.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:13 pm

Granted some battle rifles are better than others...Bottom line...No country wants to send their service men to war with a rifle not up to the task...Battle rifles made in a national armory will be up to the task...
There! That will prolly kill the thread

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:17 pm

People forget that from 1860 to 1900 the French led the way in firearms design.

Most modern artillery is an offshoot of the French 75mm.

They designed the first adopted magazine rifle (the Lebel series, etc) and smokeless powder. They sustained huge casualties in WW1 because of their 'always keep attacking' policy. If the war had not kicked off in 1914, they would have been the first country to adopt a working (reliable) semiauto rifle, as they were already conducting trials around 1912-1913 to adopt-army-wide the winner of the trials. The Lebel and Berthier stayed in service so long simply because they were there, they were reliable, and while not perfect, they had the machinery to make a bunch.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:24 pm

The French did a lot to improve the flintlock, then the English took it farther...
Then the French started the ball rolling (no pun intended) in the caliber reduction game with the introduction of a .69 caliber musket which they found killed as well as the English .75 caliber Brown Bess, meaning a French soldier could carry more ammo for the same weight.
The US 1795 Springfield musket was a direct copy of a .69 caliber French Musket.The.69 caliber lasting up into the beginning of theCivil War... Then there was the Minie Ball

which may or may not have been French

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:32 pm

The 49/56 is built like a bank vault, field strips easy; a lot of innovative maching on that thing.

getitdone1 · Post by **getitdone1** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:34 pm

[quote="Mescalero"]The 49/56 is built like a bank vault, field strips easy; a lot of innovative maching on that thing.[/quote

Mescalero,

How do you like it compared to M1A, FAL, etc? Heavier than these? As reliable as these?

I don't think the 49/56 is very well known and I wonder why--esp. if it's really good.

Don