Trapping and those opposed to fur.

Bridger · Post by **Bridger** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:46 pm

Being a trapper, (haven't been as active these last couple years as I was, but still...) I find it interesting to study the fur trade and see just where all the wild fur we trap in N.A. winds up. Most of it goes to Russia and China, but anyway, I periodically ask women what they think about wearing fur and they all nearly shriek and say something about "those cute little animals". Totally opposed to wearing fur. This kind of thinking totally baffles and frustrates. First of all, if more people in the U.S. took an interest in fur, it would drive up wild fur prices which is nice for a whole lot of us. Secondly, those same women opposed to fur have no problem with leather. Say what!?! And yes, I'm singling women out because they all seem to hold such illogical thoughts about wild animals. Cute and cuddly they are not. They may seem that way on TV, but I promise you those cute little raccoons will rip your fingers off if they get a chance.

And further, they don't seem to realize that those animals are going to die anyway, be it from rabies, hunger, or whatever. Trapping is really good for the population and enables us to make use of the fur that would otherwise waste. Also, there are a lot of beavers around here that are going to die anyway when they start causing problems. The only difference is that if the market is weak they get thrown in the ditch, instead of being used. Why would anybody feel bad about making use of the hide?

Anyway, sorry that incoherent rant may not have made total sense, but I've had enough of the illogical opinions and jsut wanted to fuss lol.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:08 am

I suppose that if a total vegan, who never wore leather, and used only naturally grown fibers to dress I'd respect her view....Like that's going to happen

765x53 · Post by **765x53** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:22 am

Fur, an infinitely renewable resource. Historically, the engine of exploration.
An industry capable of providing jobs of every level from hide scraper to designer as well as income for trappers and fur buyers young and old.
Most of the jobs are independent and entrepreneurial. That is one reason why the industry is vilified.

Not needed for warmth? Don't believe it!
Nothing else even comes close to being as warm as fur.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:24 am

I'm all for trapping those opposed to fur.

Bob Hatfield · Post by **Bob Hatfield** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:48 am

Like the "Spirit of the Wild" host said in an interview with someone against fur taking. "Do you have a leather coat?" Yes. "Well a leather coat is just a shaved fur coat"

Bob

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:25 am

Old Ironsights wrote:I'm all for trapping those opposed to fur.

+1

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:23 am

BlaineG wrote:I suppose that if a total vegan, who never wore leather, and used only naturally grown fibers to dress I'd respect her view....Like that's going to happen

Not me. No sir. Untold thousands of sweet furry animals are gruesomely mangled to plant and harvest those veggies.

Marvin S · Post by **Marvin S** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:50 am

Guilty as charged. Some will wipe yer veggies out.

ollogger · Post by **ollogger** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:28 pm

Bridger

you just hit the tip of the Iceberg!!!!
OH wait there's none of them left due to global warming

In my Logging days I've seen plenty of bark & hide huggers

ollogger

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:43 pm

Tycer wrote:
BlaineG wrote:I suppose that if a total vegan, who never wore leather, and used only naturally grown fibers to dress I'd respect her view....Like that's going to happen
Not me. No sir. Untold thousands of sweet furry animals are gruesomely mangled to plant and harvest those veggies.

When I get away from this stupid wrestling match I have a great sketch of "bunny suicides" with a row of dispondent bunnies being decapitated by a combine...

It's quite funny. You can google it too.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:48 pm

I have not checked fur,fish& game for prices for a long time, but a guy could make beans & bacon on coyotes where I live in N.M.
I do not kill coyotes, but will not disparage those who do.
They are big up there and have heavy coats , plenty of game.
They would grade out at the top of the price list.

harry · Post by **harry** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:34 pm

Here's a picture of me and my son in 2003 or there abouts, with 13 beaver all caught with conibear traps.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:54 pm

ollogger wrote:Bridger

you just hit the tip of the Iceberg Lettuce!!!!
OH wait there's none of them left due to global warming

In my Logging days I've seen plenty of bark & hide huggers

ollogger

There...I fixed it for you.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:01 pm

Bridger,
What are coon hides going for? this is under my deer corn feeder at night. they have gone through about $150 in corn this season.
Maybe I can recoup some of that.

Canuck Bob · Post by **Canuck Bob** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:53 pm

The fur trade attacks were a direct attack on the Native's in Canada. Apparently rock stars never discuss the horrific damage done to people by removing their livelihood and cultural connection between generations in a few years in remote areas. That leaves crime and welfare as the economy, sound familiar. No-one ever talks of the families saved by logging truck operators, pipe liners, and miners taking up some of the slack for economic self sufficiency and the pride of self that heals a lot of spirits. Save a seal and watch the cod disappear then slander the locals for trying to do something about it. Wrap up the photo op and jet away to have tea with the Queen and a rest in one of a dozen homes while they leave a horrid mess behind. Thanks Sir Paul of Hypocrite.

North Country Gal · Post by **North Country Gal** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:31 pm

Well, this gal would have no problem wearing fur if I could afford it.

I do wear leather, of course.

Seriously, though, have had many liberal friends who talk trash about trapping and fur and even using leather products. That's when I ask them what the alternatives are and of course, I get a blank look. Fact is, the alternatives they preach about are petroleum based synthetic products, which take an even bigger toll on the environment to produce and are not even biodegradable. Even with natural fibers, you still have to clear forests and prairies for farmland to raise crops or in the case of animal fibers such as wool, graze livestock to get them. What these people just don't want to acknowledge is that there is no free lunch, no matter which way you go. Anyone care to guess how much wildlife is sacrificed, lost and/or displaced in order to produce synthetic products or even natural fiber products? Sorry, the anti trapping and fur people don't have an ecological leg to stand on. Try telling them that, though. Yeah, these folks don't even give a second thought to wearing nylon, polypropylene and synthetic petroleum product, this and that, but they'll sure brag about how they're doing their part for the environment with their hybrid cars. Good grief.

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:18 pm

Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:Bridger,
What are coon hides going for? this is under my deer corn feeder at night. they have gone through about $150 in corn this season.
Maybe I can recoup some of that.

I happen to have gotten rough idea, on prices, but only rough. The reason is I had one of these masked raiders stealing my cats food. The cat lives in my workshop, with a platform the cat can jump to, and climb in an opening of a side window. Well SOMETHING has been stealing the food for the last several months, and scaring the heck out of the dog (Queensland healer mix, she's a coward). So, about a month ago, I heard our remote gate alarm go off so I got the flash light and took a peek outside, and there was a HUGE raccoon walking towards the shop. I went back inside, got my lighted 22 and headed back out, and put 2 in him real quick.

When I got over there, I found the largest raccoon I have ever seen. I used to trap myself (in Ohio), and have seen quite a few coons, but this guy was BIG. I weighed him, 27LBS !!!!!!! No wonder the dog was afraid!

I've been out of trapping for many years and asked my brother still in Ohio, who more recently was still trapping. He said it would most likely be a 5X coon. In other words (cause I had to ask) there is large, extra large, xxlarge, and you get it.

They said it would probably bring $30-35. I guess a large brings around $20-25 for a prime pelt. So if those guys are prime figure maybe $20 each. That would pay for your food pretty quick. IIRC a less than prime fur usually brings about 50-75% of prime.

Hope that helps.

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:24 pm

For the OP the only part of your comment I would take ANY issue with, is they are not necessarily self sustaining. Like we saw in the past with bison, and carrier pigeons, a species can be hunted or trapped to extinction. MOST states didn't used to have limits on most furbearers. I know some like beaver have had limits, but as for raccoon, or mink etc, it could happen, especially if the fur prices went way up.

Other than that, I have zero issues with trapping.

MacEntyre · Post by **MacEntyre** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:56 pm

I make Anoraks for people who work and play outside in the cold north. On the inside of the hood, we put a ruff of coyote fur. I haven't found a source of coyote, so I use mink. What's my source of mink? Thrift stores! People are so PC they are donating their expensive mink stoles to thrift stores. I buy them for $25 each, or less. Recently, I found a really nice raccoon stole that will make a wonderful ruff.

I would prefer coyote, so if anyone has some skins, please let me know!

- MacEntyre

765x53 · Post by **765x53** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:26 pm

When I call fur an infinitely renewable resource, obviously it requires proper management as a crop of nature.
Missouri has had seasons and proscribed methods for hunting and trapping of furbearers since 1937.

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:33 pm

765x53 wrote:When I call fur an infinitely renewable resource, obviously it requires proper management as a crop of nature.
Missouri has had seasons and proscribed methods for hunting and trapping of furbearers since 1937.

Seasons, yes, but limits, no.

765x53 · Post by **765x53** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:32 pm

Unlike many states, Missouri's Conservation Department is able to adjust limits as conditions require.
Such as during the reintroduction of formerly extirpated species such as beaver, otter and bobcat.
Recently, spotted skunk (never plentiful) appear to be in decline warranting closing of the season.

Surveys of trappers and hunters are a large source of information for gauging the health of wildlife populations.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:04 am

Canuck Bob wrote:The fur trade attacks were a direct attack on the Native's in Canada. Apparently rock stars never discuss the horrific damage done to people by removing their livelihood and cultural connection between generations in a few years in remote areas. That leaves crime and welfare as the economy, sound familiar. No-one ever talks of the families saved by logging truck operators, pipe liners, and miners taking up some of the slack for economic self sufficiency and the pride of self that heals a lot of spirits. Save a seal and watch the cod disappear then slander the locals for trying to do something about it. Wrap up the photo op and jet away to have tea with the Queen and a rest in one of a dozen homes while they leave a horrid mess behind. Thanks Sir Paul of Hypocrite.

Well said, I'd skin Sir Paul myself......

Back in the seventies I used to get twenty quid for winter Fox pelts, now they are left for the Crows.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:57 am

MacEntyre,
These coyotes would qualify for what fur, fish and game used to classify I believe as western mountain heavies.

Bridger · Post by **Bridger** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:29 am

Thanks for the replies...been an interesting conversation. For the gentleman inuring about the coon prices, I really can't give you any exact price. Quality varies greatly by region, and whether it is in the round, green, or finished. My furbuyer had quoted me $10 a piece in the round for a large (roughly 30 inches from nose to base of tail when stretched, if memory serves) south Alabama coon. I had really planned to trap quite a bit this year, but a number of things put the brakes on that lol, so I've only sold a couple of beavers this season. The vast majority of the trapping I have done in the past was on a contract basis for nuisance beaver, and those hides were not sold. This was going to be my first year really in the fur selling game had things panned out. I would just like to see a much larger domestic demand for fur, as it might get some more buyers in the state, and therefore more opportunity to make money. (It would also lead to more competition, but, that would be healthy for the sport. I say sport, but I'm not sure that's the correct term, as it's really a lot of work and more like a job, actually.)

Oh yeah, as a side note, this year is shaping up to be a very tumultuous one in the fur industry. Prices started out comparatively very high but seem to be dropping.

MacEntyre · Post by **MacEntyre** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:21 am

Mescalero wrote: These coyotes would qualify for what fur, fish and game used to classify I believe as western mountain heavies.

...would be great if I could get one for making ruffs.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:57 am

Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:Bridger,
What are coon hides going for? this is under my deer corn feeder at night. they have gone through about $150 in corn this season.
Maybe I can recoup some of that.

Dang, Steve.

I'd think a man your age would own a .22.

piller · Post by **piller** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:50 am

The only fur I am opposed to is when the place I want to go is too fur to walk.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:56 pm

J35 · Post by **J35** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:52 pm

MacEntyre wrote:
Mescalero wrote: These coyotes would qualify for what fur, fish and game used to classify I believe as western mountain heavies.
...would be great if I could get one for making ruffs.

You should call around to a few tanneries , I bet you could find some good deals on damaged pelts or attend a fur sale and buy a few or a 100, I would think NC has a trapper's association and a annual fur sale.

-----J

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:27 am

FWiedner wrote:
Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:Bridger,
What are coon hides going for? this is under my deer corn feeder at night. they have gone through about $150 in corn this season.
Maybe I can recoup some of that.

Dang, Steve.

I'd think a man your age would own a .22.

Way, yes I do and that is exactly what they get once they are in the trap.

MacEntyre · Post by **MacEntyre** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:36 am

J35nut wrote:...would think NC has a trapper's association

Found it... thanks for the suggestion!

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:01 pm

MacEntyre,
If one of those deadeye's up there happen to hit one.
I will see about gettting the pelt to you.
We might want to discuss how best to go about that before the fact.
Like I said, they are big; and the hides are heavy.
Should be just the thing for your enterprise.

steve817 · Post by **steve817** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:11 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:
Tycer wrote:
BlaineG wrote:I suppose that if a total vegan, who never wore leather, and used only naturally grown fibers to dress I'd respect her view....Like that's going to happen
Not me. No sir. Untold thousands of sweet furry animals are gruesomely mangled to plant and harvest those veggies.
When I get away from this stupid wrestling match I have a great sketch of "bunny suicides" with a row of dispondent bunnies being decapitated by a combine...

It's quite funny. You can google it too.

GonnePhishin · Post by **GonnePhishin** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:37 pm

handirifle,
Where abouts did you trap; Northern Ohio or southern Ohio?

GonnePhishin · Post by **GonnePhishin** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:40 pm

The liberal type rock star, kommukrats are always bellyaching about not eating meat, not wearing fur, not this or that BUT not once do you ever here 'em talking about the 55 million fetuses that have been murdered in this country over the last 40 years.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:19 am

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:22 pm

.

FWIW, there's NOTHING like a Cougar in fur ! !

.

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:43 pm

Opening Day 2013:

After 25 years I hung up the traps a few years ago after tiring of thieves, still have a couple terriers around but the hounds and curs are long gone. These coon were called in.

Larkbill · Post by **Larkbill** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:02 am

My middle brother and two cousins trapped west St. Louis County back in the 60's. Mostly muskrats on Creve Coeur creek, and in farm ponds. Anyone who calls them cute and cuddly has never found one who managed to pull the set out to where he could breath. They are never very happy.

One time leaving for church (cousins lived next door) we saw them sitting on their steps eating cereal in their underwear. Picked up a distinct wiff of skunk as we went by. Dad started laughing and told us to get the story after mass. Long story short, they had a nice (??) skunk in one of our dry land traps. All they had to kill it with was a bow and ONE arrow. Naturally they missed the first shot. And the second. Both got sprayed retrieving the arrow. Also no doubt got it all over their shoes and pant legs because the whole area reeked. Their Mom made them wash their clothes in a tub outside.

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:54 pm

I am opposed to fur. I hate to see some cute, cuddly little animal trundling around all warm and cozy when I am freezing. So I take their fur so I can stay warm.

God gave animals fur so they can be warm and don't have to wander around the woods naked. God gave other animals tough hides for protection from thorns and rocks and biting insects. God gave me the ability and common sense to use the same furs and hides so I don't have to wander around the woods naked - you guys would NOT want to see that.

Bridger · Post by **Bridger** » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:12 am

Nice work Lilkenny! Calling is an art form unto itself.

Lark, I'd left that joker until i could find a .22 lol

7.62, I think that nicely sums up my position.