Idaho Wolves

RustyJr · Post by **RustyJr** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:18 pm

Thought some of you might be glad to read this. Hope it is true. Since its coming from SCI I would imagine that the information is correct.

http://firstforhunters.wordpress.com/20 ... anagement/

RustyJr

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:39 pm

Word has it the wolves are in the Washington Cascades.....Between them, the over-populated cougars, and bears, and being overrun with coyotes, deer and elk hunting have really gone to "stuff" in this state, especially west of the mountains...

In fact, a fella don't see much of anything in the woods any more.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:52 pm

A board member here ( I'll not use his name) had a run in with a pack of wolves and the the game dept. when he was forced to shoot one or more of those wolves in self defense. I guess now there's no doubt he was in the right.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:39 pm

Rusty wrote:A board member here ( I'll not use his name) had a run in with a pack of wolves and the the game dept. when he was forced to shoot one or more of those wolves in self defense. I guess now there's no doubt he was in the right.

I would never, ever admit to such a thing to LE anymore. You just can't trust them to do the right thing.....To quote a Ranger at the Oregon Caves, "You hurt one of my bears, you better have an arm ripped off first"

Canuck Bob · Post by **Canuck Bob** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:20 pm

Wolzes are really getting busy in Alberta as well. I plan to hunt them and coyotes because of the predation concerns.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:21 pm

BlaineG wrote:
I would never, ever admit to such a thing to LE anymore. You just can't trust them to do the right thing.....

+1

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:38 pm

Where I come from, they still issue " depredation " permits.
But not for wolves,
I think there is one;
but that defies conventional logic.

Chris83716 · Post by **Chris83716** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:25 pm

Three S is the standard practice.

Chris

jkbrea · Post by **jkbrea** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:01 am

Every year for the past 20 years I have put in for a Wyoming general elk tag which was for "any elk" and I hunted the same area every year. If I didn't draw, I would purchase a leftover cow/calf tag which was almost a given for that area. Because of wolves, the number of tags have been reduced dramatically and now most general tags are for antlered elk only excluding spikes. The cow/calf season was also moved up from 9/10 to 9/26. Wolves have seriously affected Wyoming elk but at least they started hunting them last year and in some areas you can shoot them on sight year round. Hopefully that will help out with the elk numbers.

Bob Hatfield · Post by **Bob Hatfield** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:42 am

Chris83716 wrote:Three S is the standard practice.

Chris

2 S for me. I had enough shoveling in my life. Buzzards have to eat as much as worms

Bob

BrentD · Post by **BrentD** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:46 am

I really hate to see these conversations turn this way. I hope you guys are really blowing smoke and not advocating poaching. It is counterproductive to the future of hunting in the long run, to put it politely.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:30 pm

Predator control is Not "poaching.."

Wolves are vermin.. The only differences between them and gophers or jackrabbits are size and diet...

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:39 pm

BrentD wrote:I really hate to see these conversations turn this way. I hope you guys are really blowing smoke and not advocating poaching. It is counterproductive to the future of hunting in the long run, to put it politely.

If I am being hunted, I shall blow that effer away no matter what it is....As wolf tags become available, I urge everybody legally able to do so to hunt them so that they might learn some fear. As it is, these Canadian imports were raised by man, and sneer at them.

Bob Hatfield · Post by **Bob Hatfield** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:04 pm

Ain't it funny that if a wolf looked like big old ugly spider or ant instead of a puppy dog they would want all of the gone. Just like a horse vs a pig or cow. Horses are purty therefore we don't eat them or raise them to sell to countries that do eat them. No love for an ugly critter even by the animal lovers I'll wager.

Bob

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:06 pm

Back in '81/'82 when I lived in Idaho there were no wolves, and on one backpacking trip alone in one day I counted 97 elk including several magnificent bulls. Would be nice to see things returned to their former glory.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:36 pm

The anti-gun/hunting, and PETA folks are tickled pinko.....the wolves are destroying the ability to successfully hunt, and in their little sick minds, this will eliminate the need for guns.....Make sense?

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:28 pm

Dr. Valerius Geist who was the darling of the hugga wolf crowd till he talked about predator pits and how wolves will need to be controlled if they start hammering game populations kinda like how Alaska does aerial hunting in a GMU when wolves hammer the game and the native people use their own techniques in frozen meat balls then theres the cowboys in BC that just saddleup a pony and ride a loop and every time the pony makes horseapples they pour some wolftoddy on them all canines just love horseapples. Course the states/fed doesnt like for the people to handle their own problems and thats what it boils down to is control. this country was founded on justice and fairness and thats how laws are judged by the common man not the elite who make the laws over the objection of the people effected . gov does preventive maintenance cause less moose and sheep is less money for gov and its legal but PM by the common man thats getting his ox gored isnt allowed and is called poaching. Sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander too. danny

BrentD · Post by **BrentD** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:52 pm

Yeah, it's the common man who's yellow lab is killed by some person's "wolftoddy"

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:49 pm

Brent sorry you lost a dog I have empathy for you but if you allow your dog to trespass someones private property who fault is it whether its wolftoddy or lead/copper poisoning. dogs need supervision that means they need to be close enough to you to see and hear commands that way predators, traps or bullets wont be a concern. danny

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:53 pm

I missed the part where he said the yellow lab was trespassing

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:24 pm

Blaine who said anything about wolftoddy on Crown land Iam talking about private land and unless you have permission you or your dog are trespassing. danny

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:57 pm

BigSky56 wrote:Blaine who said anything about wolftoddy on Crown land Iam talking about private land and unless you have permission you or your dog are trespassing. danny

Yes...that is true.....Please show me where, In this case, with THAT yellow lab, there was trespassing involved?? I'd like to see you hunt a lab with a leash on it. It's BS to leave poison around that can kill anything at anytime without discretion...If a fella wants to kill a wolf, go kill the dang thing, don't be lazy about it.

BrentD · Post by **BrentD** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:57 pm

BigSky56 wrote:Brent sorry you lost a dog I have empathy for you but if you allow your dog to trespass someones private property who fault is it whether its wolftoddy or lead/copper poisoning. dogs need supervision that means they need to be close enough to you to see and hear commands that way predators, traps or bullets wont be a concern. danny

Try USFS lands bubba.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:02 pm

BrentD wrote:
BigSky56 wrote:Brent sorry you lost a dog I have empathy for you but if you allow your dog to trespass someones private property who fault is it whether its wolftoddy or lead/copper poisoning. dogs need supervision that means they need to be close enough to you to see and hear commands that way predators, traps or bullets wont be a concern. danny

Try USFS lands bubba.

I've learned that a fella that has no use for a dog generally don't care about another fellas either.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:14 pm

Ah.. I see the approaching divide between the sheep and the sheep dogs...

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:46 am

BlaineG wrote:
Rusty wrote:A board member here ( I'll not use his name) had a run in with a pack of wolves and the the game dept. when he was forced to shoot one or more of those wolves in self defense. I guess now there's no doubt he was in the right.
I would never, ever admit to such a thing to LE anymore. You just can't trust them to do the right thing.....To quote a Ranger at the Oregon Caves, "You hurt one of my bears, you better have an arm ripped off first"

Too many of our Public "Servants" seem to have taken this proprietary attitude towards wildlife which rightfully belongs to the PEOPLE, and should be controlled, as necessary, by the people who have been affected..

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:50 am

Buck Elliott wrote:Ah.. I see the approaching divide between the sheep and the sheep dogs...

Baaaaad attempt, Buck.....Ewe got to be better than that to pull the wool over my eyes....

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:10 am

BlaineG wrote:
Buck Elliott wrote:Ah.. I see the approaching divide between the sheep and the sheep dogs...
Baaaaad attempt, Buck.....Ewe got to be better than that to pull the wool over my eyes....

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:53 am

Brent sorry about your pup on US public land I dont condone indiscriminate poisoning on public land. I was in error for not saying private property your were in error for thinking I was talking about public property. We both made a mistake. danny
In the US on public land the only poison I know of are M44's and 1080 collars used by fed & state ADC techs, course dogs cant read signs but a responsible owner would be with them so they wouldnt get in a set or run sheep and bite them.
I have dogs, working stock dogs and I think the world of them they go every where with me. Teach your dog to mind and you wont have problems when out and about.
Last I heard there was still private property rights but I guess they are getting limited to what your neighbor or someone in another state thinks. as always dog threads digress into emotion rather than common sense & responsibility.
So we going to talk about domestic dogs or wolves. danny

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:35 am

BigSky56 wrote:In the US on public land the only poison I know of are M44's and 1080 collars used by fed & state ADC techs, course dogs cant read signs but a responsible owner would be with them so they wouldnt get in a set or run sheep and bite them.
I have dogs, working stock dogs and I think the world of them they go every where with me. Teach your dog to mind and you wont have problems.
Last I heard there was still private property rights but I guess they are getting limited to what your neighbor or someone in another state thinks. as always dog threads digress into emotion rather than common sense & responsibility.
So we going to talk about domestic dogs or wolves. danny

We'll just put you down in favor of indiscriminate poison rather than responsible eradication.

BrentD · Post by **BrentD** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:47 am

BigSky56 wrote: So we going to talk about domestic dogs or wolves. danny

I think we are talking about vigilantism and a growing bunch of "patriots" that think it's their god-given right to do whatever the hell they want.

God help any one I catch poisoning. He's gonna need it.

msmith1228 · Post by **msmith1228** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:16 pm

A picture is worth a thousand words.

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:24 pm

Wolves are regularly seen in Eastern Oregon now too. Hopefully the people that played this silly reintroduction game, with Mother Nature, will see what happens when you mess with her.

Gaucho Gringo · Post by **Gaucho Gringo** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:37 pm

Since the wolf huggers are almost all urban people, why don't they release them there. Then they can get together with their wolves and commune with nature. If some of the wolf huggers get eaten along the way, you can say that is the way nature works. Also there would be an endless supply of food for them, WETP wolves eating tasty pets.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:07 pm

jdad wrote:Wolves are regularly seen in Eastern Oregon now too. Hopefully the people that played this silly reintroduction game, with Mother Nature, will see what happens when you mess with her.

The big problem is, that those "people" don't really CARE about the Problems they have caused. Mostly, they don't live where the Yukon wolves were Introduced, and their lives and properties have not yet been affected.. They are irrational, delusional dreamers, and any attempts at logical discourse will be (as it has been) totally Lost on them...

piller · Post by **piller** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:47 pm

Buck, that is all too true. I have dogs, have had dogs, and was raised around dogs. They are not wolves, but dogs can get into a pack and kill cattle and humans. A cousin of mine killed his dog because it was running with a pack. When people or animals start destroying just because they are in a pack, they should not be protected. I am not in favor of indiscriminate poisons, but I am not living in that area. I will wait until I live there and see it for myself before I weigh in any further on poisons.

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:48 pm

So Blaine what is your definition of "responsible eradication" in regards to a person protecting their property from predators domestic or wild on private property. danny

Brent The 1973 ESA superseded a persons private property rights and gives protection to animal etc. over humans it needs amending when it comes to private property rights.
I could not chase or even fire a shot in the air if wolves or a brn bear were attacking and killing stock or pets on my property I know I went thru this problem with joe fontaine #2 under ed bangs US F&G, joe is or last I heard herding ducks on a refuge in Ark.

A short story about the ESA alleged violations, one of many I know about.
Bob was a rancher over on the rocky mtn front somewhere around Choteau went out to the barn one morning with a rifle in hand and dog at his side halfway there noticed a commotion in the paddock by the barn 2-3 brn bears were playing foosball with his sheep then his dog growls he turns around and has a brn bear encounter bear loses Bob calls the law well 250K$ in legal fees and 9K$ in fines for a ESA killing and Bob was reminded by the judge that he shouldnt leave his house if bears are around and his dog was at fault for the bear charge thus he was at fault for the shooting on his own land no less. now Chris Servheen #1 grizzly bear sociologist told me at a meeting that it was a mistake by the US possum cop and the US attorney who pushed that case. Bob finally won the case but is gone now all the stress killed him. dumbbutt decisions by possum cops and DA's state or fed makes outlaws of decent hardworking citizens. This kinda stuff causes people to handle problems on their own with any means available. danny

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:40 pm

Buck, we're on the same side, except I don't approve of poison and traps on public land where anything besides predators get killed. You seem to think the ends justifies the means. On your land, so be it. Kill a few with rifles, and leave 'em lay around. They'll get the idea eventually.

A person has lots of rights. Because you can do a thing, don't mean you have to. A good person thinks about the harm he could do to a another fella. A So and So don't care. Karma sucks on the go around Sir.

draperjojo · Post by **draperjojo** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:54 pm

Seems to me, a lot of those laws, enforcements, and court rulings are handled by people with no skin in the game....

Chris83716 · Post by **Chris83716** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:40 pm

Gaucho Gringo wrote:Since the wolf huggers are almost all urban people, why don't they release them there. Then they can get together with their wolves and commune with nature. If some of the wolf huggers get eaten along the way, you can say that is the way nature works. Also there would be an endless supply of food for them, WETP wolves eating tasty pets.

We had mountain lion eating pets this last summer here in Boise. To say it caused some excitement would be an understatement. I think it took some of the luster off of large predatory animals being reintroduced. Can't say I like the idea of poison but with bullets alone we will be hard pressed to keep them in check.

Chris

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:44 pm

Chris83716 wrote:
Gaucho Gringo wrote:Since the wolf huggers are almost all urban people, why don't they release them there. Then they can get together with their wolves and commune with nature. If some of the wolf huggers get eaten along the way, you can say that is the way nature works. Also there would be an endless supply of food for them, WETP wolves eating tasty pets.
We had mountain lion eating pets this last summer here in Boise. To say it caused some excitement would be an understatement. I think it took some of the luster off of large predatory animals being reintroduced. Can't say I like the idea of poison but with bullets alone we will be hard pressed to keep them in check.

Chris

Unless wolves can make a direct connection between pain/death and humans, then, you will be hard pressed to get them to keep their distance.

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:19 am

Blaine are you going to answer my question. danny

Gaucho Gringo · Post by **Gaucho Gringo** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:51 am

Buck Elliott wrote:
jdad wrote:Wolves are regularly seen in Eastern Oregon now too. Hopefully the people that played this silly reintroduction game, with Mother Nature, will see what happens when you mess with her.
The big problem is, that those "people" don't really CARE about the Problems they have caused. Mostly, they don't live where the Yukon wolves were Introduced, and their lives and properties have not yet been affected.. They are irrational, delusional dreamers, and any attempts at logical discourse will be (as it has been) totally Lost on them...

This is the point that I was trying to get at in my earlier post. Even if they had to live with the consequences most of them would be in lalalala denial. Some of them might take offense to Fluffy, BoBo or even one of their own children getting killed by a large predatory animal that they consider cute or noble but they would be a small minority. They are in my opinion total idiots and should be culled from the gene pool. There is a reason for most reasonable people's fear and hatred of wolves, they are the most efficient killers of all the large predatory animals.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:05 am

BigSky56 wrote:Blaine are you going to answer my question. danny

I was quite clear. I personally disagree with poison scattered about where it indiscriminately kills. You are quite clear in that if poison kills, or maims other than a predator, it doesn't much matter to you. Like the young girl walking down a street, if she gets abused, or harmed it's her fault for looking good, or, being in the wrong place at the wrong time. You characterization of someone that does care as emotional, or somehow soft is at best laughable.

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:29 pm

Blaine somebody twisting you tail, you still cranking about the dog threads where a property owner whacked dogs or you somehow feel your the offended party in a wolf thread and have to straighten out a persons thinking and if they dont comply you try to tongue lash and belittle them with they dont have compassion for dogs or some girl thats been assaulted.
Brents a big boy he's not shy if he wants to task me he will, if he thinks I agree with how the pup died.
You must want to be the room monitor, if you ask Hobie maybe he will put your name up in pink then we'll all know to let Blaine right all wrongs, straighten out all thinking, save all dogs & young girls and tell how to responsibly eradicate wild beasts.
I let it go last time you poked at me over atv's in the backcountry no more, If I post something dont try and extrapolate my thinking cause your not good at it.
I read sign pretty well Blaine you got a problem deal with it and stay off my back, I dont go after people and needle them and I not going to let someone try it with me. danny

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:51 pm

BigSky56 wrote:Blaine somebody twisting you tail, you still cranking about the dog threads where a property owner whacked dogs or you somehow feel your the offended party in a wolf thread and have to straighten out a persons thinking and if they dont comply you try to tongue lash and belittle them with they dont have compassion for dogs or some girl thats been assaulted.
Brents a big boy he's not shy if he wants to task me he will, if he thinks I agree with how the pup died.
You must want to be the room monitor, if you ask Hobie maybe he will put your name up in pink then we'll all know to let Blaine right all wrongs, straighten out all thinking, save all dogs & young girls and tell how to responsibly eradicate wild beasts.
I let it go last time you poked at me over atv's in the backcountry no more, If I post something dont try and extrapolate my thinking cause your not good at it.
I read sign pretty well Blaine you got a problem deal with it and stay off my back, I dont go after people and needle them and I not going to let someone try it with me. danny

Dude, who urinated in your oatmeal? If you don't want to wrangle over an issue, then just butt out at the very start of it. Did you, or did you not demand that I answer your question Yes? No?
If you don't like me, push the button that makes me disappear. At my age, I'm tired of caustic misanthropes.

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:50 pm

Blaine when you post things be man enough to stand behind your post or make your amends your last post that you corrected/ changed wasnt very nice I'll leave it to you make it right with yourself and your Creator we wouldnt want the forum member to see the bile you can write. danny

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:02 pm

BigSky56 wrote:Blaine when you post things be man enough to stand behind your post or make your amends your last post that you corrected/ changed wasnt very nice I'll leave it to you make it right with yourself and your Creator we wouldnt want the forum member to see the bile you can write. danny

I'll leave you to your own bile.....Now, you answer my question: Did you or did you not demand an answer to your question, and when you got it, went flying off the handle. You have a wild and destructive imagination if you think what I wrote is "Bile". If you happened to have saved it for your Diary, please feel free to reprint it for all of us, if you really want to publish what I think of cranky old EssOhBees.....Go poison something, maybe it will untwist your knotted pink panties....

You win.....This is really stupid, and you bore me.

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:10 pm

Blaine I didnt print it for anyone else to read you decided to pick a few of the words and print them. I was leaving you a way out but you want to get cranky and arrogant well enjoy.
You never answered the question I asked which you brought up first and I asked for clarity , you responded to Buck instead maybe that was my answer and you typed Buck and meant me still doesnt answer what is responsible eradication for a landowner concerning predators domestic or wild on private property.
Nobody likes discussions with derogatory assumptions & comments or insinuating some conduct without evidence it doesnt fit in with the intent of the forum. to say we were having a spirited conversion and I took it wrong, yeah right.
End of discussion Blaine we cant find common ground I'll stay in my corner you do the same life will go on. danny

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:24 pm

I don't need "a way out".
Sorry I called you Buck.
I answered your question twice and now a third time: Responsible eradication, IMO, does not involve poison. I typed that two or three different times. If you are waiting for a different answer, there is not one that I'll give you. Peace.