.357 Magnum in .357 MAXIMUM???

[Mike Armstrong]

I asked this question on another forum and didn't get much of an answer, so here goes.

I am thinking of ordering a .357 barrel for my T-C G2 carbine (Come on, now--it DOES have a lever!). Wondering if I can get a .357 Maximum chamber even though most of the shooting will be with the same .357 Magnums that I use in several of my revolvers.

Specifically, does anybody have any experience shooting .357 Magnum ctgs. in a .357 Maximum chamber, then shooting the Maximum? I always clean the chambers of my .357 revolvers carefully when I shoot .38 Specials in them (which I do a LOT) and have never had any issues with the Magnums sticking in the chambers of either SA or DA revolvers.

But I wonder if the higher pressures of the Magnum might cause a cutting/ringing problem that would make the Maximums stick when I switched to them.

I'll mostly be using this carbine for varmints with Magnum ctgs., but might want the extra smack of the Maximum for bigger game.

Any experience greatly appreciated.

Mike Armstrong

[AJMD429]

The 'generic' answer is that you might have the problems you mention with sticking cases, but I have not had such problems even though I rather sparingly shoot 357 Mags in my 357 Max Contender.

The other 'evasive' answer is to just load up your light-stuff in 357 Max cases, which of course you could do, but then the load data is another set of issues, as the case volume is so different (that Max is a l-o-o-o-n-g case!).

I wouldn't hesitate to get the Maximum chambering, because it is an awesome Contender cartridge (and maybe a potential little-brother to the 500 S&W in a 1889 Spike Driver action ). Keep it clean, but there isn't much of an easier gun to clean the chamber of...!

There is also the 357 Dan Wesson which is just a bit longer than the 357 Mag and yet 'hotter', so might be less bare-chamber, but not sure of any advantage vs. the Maximum other than if you're trying to fit it in a short-action levergun.

What the heck - just get a 357/44 Bain & Davis and be done with it... (just kidding).

[Mike Armstrong]

I guess my other realistic option is to just get a .357 Magnum and load it hot when I WANT hot. For pigs I'd like a 200 gr bullet, but since I live in The Golden State and hunt in the coast ranges mainly, I HAVE to use non-lead bullets. Why? To save the California Condor, of course! Now, I HAVE seen a condor in that area.

In 1961.....

Anyway, there are some nonlead bullets available for .357 Magnum, but what about really heavy nonlead pig killer.35 bullets? Would I have to get a special twist barrel to handle those extra-long copper bullets? I CAN get one: the Contender barrel company I use, MGM, will supply just about anything. But would I be able to get decent accuracy with the 125 gr. varmint bullets then? Hmmmm.

[Tycer]

No cutting. No ringing. Same as 38/357. Shelly yerself silly.

[Mike Armstrong]

Think I'll try the MAX! Let y'all know how it works, although it'll take me a while to get the bbl. made and get started reloading .357 Maximum, cause I doubt that my .38/.357 dies will work. Getting brass might take a while, too.

[Rusty]

Mike,
You might want to check the graybeard's outdoor forums. When you get there scroll down to the section for the centerfire Handi rifles. There is a month's worth of reading there from folks who have reamed a .357 mag Handi out to .357 Max. They are pushing them pretty good there.

[North Country Gal]

I shoot a 12" Max in my G2 Contender pistol on a regular basis. The Max is one of my favorite cartridges - easy to reload, flat shooting and very reasonable on recoil. Did I mention accurate?

Yes, as mentioned, you can shoot Mags in your Max barrel, but don't expect accuracy to be on a par with the Max. And, as mentioned, clean out that chamber after shooting the Mags. I don't shoot mags, much, in the Max barrel, anymore, since I now have a couple 357 mag barrels for shooting the Mags. Really the best option if you plan to shoot a lot of Mags.

[3leggedturtle]

38/357 dies work just fine. Tho you might want to buy an extra seating die so you don't have to adjust back forth so much. I had a 357Max 10" Contender barrel. It would shoot 1" groups at 50 yards with .38WC's. As great as the Max is I just never could get really enthused with it. I preferred shooting 357 and 38's more in their respective barrels. I sold it and havent missed it. MGM is great to deal with, am sure Kerry or one of the other guys would know what twist you'd need for the copper 200gr bullets.

[El Chivo]

Anyway, there are some nonlead bullets available for .357 Magnum, but what about really heavy nonlead pig killer.35 bullets? Would I have to get a special twist barrel to handle those extra-long copper bullets? I CAN get one: the Contender barrel company I use, MGM, will supply just about anything. But would I be able to get decent accuracy with the 125 gr. varmint bullets then? Hmmmm.

The Barnes 200 grain bullets you mention are actually .358, not .357. That might be a problem, pressurewise. And they are quite long, there's not much room in the case for powder. And the spire point won't expand unless you are going 1800 fps and above. So you'd have a non-expanding solid going about 1400 fps?

I bought some not knowing all this and loaded them in 35 Remington. The bullet extends way back behind the shoulder. The powder capacity is about 75% of what it should be, and the load I settled on was at 1800 fps at the muzzle, no chance for expansion. I sighted them in for 50 yards, and occasionally take them for defense if I want to walk with my 35 Remington in the condor zone. For hunting I'd use something else. If you want to use that bullet for hogs, get a 35 Whelen (Handi-rifle has some barrels available).

A better choice would be the Barnes XPB pistol bullet, 140 grains. These are made to open at 900 fps. They are .357, not .358, and they are very accurate in my .357. They also out-penetrate 180 grain lead bullets. They are the same length as 180 grain lead bullets, and stabilize accordingly. I killed a pig with one (ok he was small). This is also a way to get wicked velocity out of .357 or .357 max. The only downside with these is, if they're going TOO fast, you can lose petals or the petals fold back and you have a solid again.

Don't make the mistake of thinking in terms of weight when you're using Barnes bullets, it's a matter of performance. If it makes the hole, why care if there's a lot of weight behind it? The obsession with extra weight doesn't apply to Barnes bullets nearly as much as with lead.

[Sixgun]

I shot one 357 max. 7 and 1/2" Ruger extensively with all kinds of ammo. jacketed max, jacketed 357 mag., cast 357 mag. They all shot pretty good but nothing matches the 180 gr. jacketed with a full dose of 4227 or H-110. Make sure you use small rifle magnum primers and when using slow powders, use maximum loads or velocity spreads wind up at 200 fps.

I since retired the 7 and 1/2" and now shoot a 10" heavy barreled Ruger. That thing shoots like a rifle with the 180 gr. Sierra silhouette bullet. No lie, it was a joke to hit the 300 meter pigs and it took me several shots to "get on" with the 385 meter turkey but once I did, it was a piece of cake to knock them down. The 500 meter ram was a bit harder as the wind and the unability of my aging eyes to properly see the sights hurt some.

I don't play with no stupid 357 magnum cases in the max. Too long of a jump. If you want milder loads, just load 'em down a bit.

Oh, the flame cutting? It develops rather fast but does not get worse. Both of my Rugers have ate up lots of jacketed rounds at full velocity and still shoot as good as ever. The idea is NOT to use the light 125 or 110 gr. bullets with full charges of slow burning powder.-----Sixgun

Its a huge revolver


This is all of the flame cutting I got after 700+ rds. of full power loads. Barely scratched it.

[Mike Armstrong]

Thanks, everybody! LOTS of info here! I do like the Barnes XPB bullet; have used it in .357 Magnum handguns with good results (meaning a big hole).

[3leggedturtle]

Sixgun; That flame cutting is what all the p+m'ing and whining and complaining was about. Ya gotta be chitlin me. Is it even .0001 deep. Can you feel it with your fingernail? That's laughable. Looks like a hacksaw blade dragged across and scratched the bluing off. And the Max was discontinued because of that. Again I'm impressed by, uh never mind that thought. 3leg

[Sixgun]

3 leg.,
Yep, If people loaded the Max the way it was supposed to be loaded, Ruger would still be making them. It was designed to shoot a 180 gr. bullet the same speed that the 357 magnum shoots the 158 gr. This way the silhouette shooters could more easily knock down the 200 meter rams with a 357 gun instead of having to go to the 44 and it's increased recoil.

Right away guys started loading 110 gr. bullets with huge amounts of H-110 and making big flame cuts. Even then, the flame cut only went so deep.

Not one to "snooze and lose"' I immediately went out and bought 2 examples, a 7 and 1/2" and the big 10". -------Sixgun

[Hobie]

I have a Max, but your stated application isn't how I use it. It is a Max first and everything else is secondary. http://shootingwithhobie.blogspot.com/2 ... st_01.html

[AJMD429]

Sixgun; That flame cutting is what all the p+m'ing and whining and complaining was about. Ya gotta be chitlin me. Is it even .0001 deep. Can you feel it with your fingernail? That's laughable. Looks like a hacksaw blade dragged across and scratched the bluing off. And the Max was discontinued because of that. Again I'm impressed by, uh never mind that thought. 3leg

I've seen pictures of some with more 'severe' flame cuts, but even IF it were a big deal, it would seem not all that hard for a gunsmith to cut a dovetail there to hold a thin piece of hardened 'shield', or even perhaps make a 'clip-on' one. Maybe more of a REAL problem would be the potential for a more severe injury (i.e. 'lawsuit') when the inevitable happens and someone shoots the gun with their off-hand too far forward. (I saw a patient nearly lost a hand due to a gap-blast from a S&W in 357 Mag - got cut through the palm just proximal to the MCP joints and powder/debris blasted into deep tissues and spaces).

[Hobie]

I have a .32-20 S&W with much more severe flame cutting than shown in that photo.

[Old Ironsights]

Sixgun; That flame cutting is what all the p+m'ing and whining and complaining was about. Ya gotta be chitlin me. Is it even .0001 deep. Can you feel it with your fingernail? That's laughable. Looks like a hacksaw blade dragged across and scratched the bluing off. And the Max was discontinued because of that. Again I'm impressed by, uh never mind that thought. 3leg

I had flame cutting about that bad on my Casull... once the surface metal is smashed into the subsurface metal it becomes too hard to cut any more.

Unless it becomes measurable in TENTHS (or +.5 HUNDREDTHS) I wouldn't worry about it.