Heavy bullets in 38/357 or other 35 caliber loads ...

[86er]

First a text message showed up from a number I do not recognize saying "Sending you these", along with a photo of some cast bullets. Then the package shows up. It took a while to figure out it was from a guy I met during Operation Hurrican Sandy Relief. There are 200 of each - 217 grain cast Spitzer style bullet GC .3595 and 222 gr Lyman SWCGC .360. I cannot find load data for anything over 200 grains in the pistol cartridges and even that data seems scarce. I'd be interested in trying them at a subsonic velocity in 38 SPL cases even if they are seated out quite a bit (I'd use them in a 360DW rifle so there is plenty of chamber length). I'd also try them in 357 cases, also seated out but not necessarily reduced velocity. Lastly, I have several 35 Rem and a 35-30 that'd use them. But, my references and manuals are lacking load data for this weight cast bullet in 35 Rem and there is hardly any data out there for 35-30. I really don't have interest in using them in the 35 Whelen. Anyone with ideas?

[Rusty]

Could .357 Max data be used as a starting place?

Years ago I knew a old Cuban die maker that loaded 200 gr. spire points in a .357 mag M28 S&W. He used it on the steel rams and such. None of his loads were in any book I knew of at the time.

[FatJackDurham]

I had kind of the same issue with 147 grain bullets in 38 Spl. What I did was compare the seating depth to the the 158 grain seating deapth and cut back 10% From the lowest setting and went up from there.

Its definitely sketchy, though to extrapolate upwards. You get into dangerous territory quickly. However, being that you are loading a 38 Spl and presumably shooting in a 357(?), you should be reasonably safe.

I think the interior volume is more important for the pressure initially than the weight of the bullet, isnt it? So, I would say, for compare your seating depth to the heaviest bullet you load already, and load the min load for that at the same depth.

Do you have a crony to check your speeds?

You might also be able to estimate, if you compare the different loads for similar bullets. For instance comparing loads for a 110, 125, 140 and 158 grain bullets, all JHP, will show a comparitive change in powder as the weight of the bullet goes, with little change in COL.

Good luck. Shoot with someone there to call the ambulance.......

[Tycer]

That spitzer will run OK over 16.5 grains of LG. I ran it up to 17, but never could get any great accuracy from it in the 360DW.

[Hobie]

2.3-2.5 gr. Bullseye should kick those out quietly.

[Nath]

Out of a carbine I reason you would be safe enough with an amount of H110 to just above....say a 1/16" above bullet base height IF YOU GO TO STANDARD C.O.L.s.....what could possibly go wrong

Have fun Joe.

Nath.

[AJMD429]

Obviously you're getting some good advice and loads from here on the forum, but if you have other loads you can't find data for, AmmoGuide.com is worth the few bucks a year to subscribe.

I can't ethically spread around load data from a paid-subscriber site*, but AmmoGuide.com shows 23 loads for 357 Magnum using bullets from 200 to 239 grains. Several of the 200 grain cast ones are listed as 'manufacturer' data.

(* ...and one time I listed just a couple as an 'example' [trying to help out AmmoGuide actually, by showing an example of their good format/data], I got my knuckles rapped, so they probably have a internet 'bot that keeps an eye out for people casually sharing their data. Can't say I blame them, either...!)

[crs]

None of my manuals show loads for 35 Remington bullets heavier than 220 grains.
However, I did see one with heavier bullets in my old Phil Sharp book. It was a .357 Elliot Express made with a .405 WCF necked down to .357. It was equivalent to the .35 Whelan. Elliot also made a .277 and .303 express for single shot and double rifles.
I can scan the pages and email it to you if you like.

[crs]

oops - found another one .
PO Ackley has 220 grain loads for .35 Remington in 4 different powders from 1780 to 1940 fps.

His max 160 grain load for the .357 in a model 1892 Winchester rifle is at 2135 fps.

Also, the heaviest bullet he lists for.357 Mag revolver is 162 grains, but most are 160.

There are no doubt some other heavy .357 loads out there, but it is now bed time.

[J35]

First a text message showed up from a number I do not recognize saying "Sending you these", along with a photo of some cast bullets. Then the package shows up. It took a while to figure out it was from a guy I met during Operation Hurrican Sandy Relief. There are 200 of each - 217 grain cast Spitzer style bullet GC .3595 and 222 gr Lyman SWCGC .360. I cannot find load data for anything over 200 grains in the pistol cartridges and even that data seems scarce. I'd be interested in trying them at a subsonic velocity in 38 SPL cases even if they are seated out quite a bit (I'd use them in a 360DW rifle so there is plenty of chamber length). I'd also try them in 357 cases, also seated out but not necessarily reduced velocity. Lastly, I have several 35 Rem and a 35-30 that'd use them. But, my references and manuals are lacking load data for this weight cast bullet in 35 Rem and there is hardly any data out there for 35-30. I really don't have interest in using them in the 35 Whelen. Anyone with ideas?

I am thinking your spitzer bullet is the Lyman 358315, if so it was made for the 35 Rem. and has been around for over a 100 years .

With my alloy my copy weighs 215 gr. fully dressed. I have always just used cast 200 gr load start data and work up if I feel the need .

The Lyman 48th manual has good data for this bullet in both the 35 Rem. and 357 mag.

Myself I would not be concerned with the extra weight, it just tells me the alloy they were cast with has a little more lead in it than lyman #2 alloy.

Your SWC bullet sounds like the Lyman 358627, if it is the one I am thinking of it was made for the 357 Max and should have two crimp grooves. I have had that mold for about seven years and have yet to shoot any of them, to many molds to little time

---J

[El Chivo]

The Lee manual has some loads for 220 and 250 grainers in 35 Rem.

Otherwise, can't you calculate the relative space in the case, and compare that to a known load? I did this when I was loading the Barnes 200 grain bullet in 35 Rem, and it worked fine. Rimfire McNutjob was kind enough to check it out with Quickloads and the load shoots fine.

[Steelbanger]

The Lyman 49th Manual, 1992, in its Contender/ Remington XP section has meager data for the 215 gr. SWC and the 205 gr. RN. My scanner is shot but if you want a copy of this data PM your email address and I will send pics of the data.

[AJMD429]

In the "or other 35 caliber loads" category, you can drive a 225 grain .358" bullet 3,700 fps, for 6,843 foot-lbs of energy, using a necked-down 378 Weatherby.

• The 358 BOS Magnum - http://www.magrifles.com/technical.php

You have to settle for 3,210 fps if you step up to a 250 grain load.

[Roland]

Maybe I could ask here, I'm wondering if there are any good 38cal molds that drop bullets in the 160-170gr range that would be usable in a .357mag '73 lever? I wouldn't mind a slightly longer bullet to reach 357 OAL with a 38spl case. I've seen only SWC designs in that weight range so far and those aren't the best wrt feeding I understand.

[3leggedturtle]

Maybe I could ask here, I'm wondering if there are any good 38cal molds that drop bullets in the 160-170gr range that would be usable in a .357mag '73 lever? I wouldn't mind a slightly longer bullet to reach 357 OAL with a 38spl case. I've seen only SWC designs in that weight range so far and those aren't the best wrt feeding I understand.

Check out the Saeco 180gr RNFP comes in both GC and NON-GC. Shoot GC version in 357 PUMA it is boringly accurate. Hope to try it in a 1955 Marlin 35 Remington soon. 3leg/Todd

[86er]

Thanks for the input. Hobies load works okay. I have recd a PM that suggested Titegroup. 3.5 gr in a 38 SPL case gets 665 fps out of the 16" barrel with the 220 whatever grain bullets. 5.5 gr in a 357 Mag case gets 1008 fps. I don't see any ill signs and they are pretty accurate at close range. You're on your own if you try these. I will continue to experiment with other loads.