Longmire series and a lever action rifle question.

[bigbore442001]

Well, we're on the tail end of a heat wave here in Southern New England so that means I hole up with the AC running and become like a raccoon and come out at night. Anyways I put the on demand channel on and watched the latest Longmire episode from A and E network.

I see that the main character carries a M1911 and is seen with a lever action rifle. I do not know what model or caliber he is using but I do have a question that picques my intellect a tad regarding law enforcement and lever action rifles.

I see now that most law enforcement use the AR platform for a police carbine. I suspect that may be true in the Rockies as well as other parts west of the big river. Do any law enforcers still use the lever action for their daily official duties? I am just curious about that. Thanks.

[Terry Murbach]

YES THEY DO ! MOSTLY 357MAG CARBINES OR 30-30 CARBINES.
AND FURTHERMORE I KNOW SOME WHO STILL ARE CARRYING SINGLE ACTION REVOLVERS AS WE SPEAK, AND AT LEAST ONE SHERIFF'S DEPT WHO'S ISSUE GUN IS THE RUGER BLACKHAWK 45COLT SINGLE ACTION. THIS IS---IS!!!---THE WEST, SIR !!

[Don McDowell]

Most local sheriffs here are more interested in putting a stop to the nonsense than how many magazines they can empty before the perp gets away.

I've seen our county sheriff out here on business carrying a nickel plated Colt model P shop keeper, and last time he came by he was carrying a Uberti birdshead.

[wm]

I would guess that at least 50% or more of local LEOs did a hitch in the service before becoming full time lawman so there is a predisposition towards the AR platform.......if it served you well when the feces hit the fan then the next time it is probably what you're going to want to have with you.

Locally here in mid & northern Michigan there were Ruger Mini 14s but I think they have been phased out in the last 10 years and the AR is universally distributed.

Wm.

P.S. I do know one older sheriff's deputy who still carries a M-1 Carbine but he is retiring this autumn.

[Don McDowell]

Wyoming Highway Patrol and the Game and Fish issue rifle is the M14, and federal 168 gr match ammo.

[J Miller]

Terry Murbach, Don McDowell,

I really wanna move up there. Just gotta win the lotto for funds and convince SWMBO that's the place we're going.

Joe

[cas]

I just started watching the show last night on Netflix. While I'm enjoying the show, the "gun tech" is awful.

Watching episode 5 as I type this. SxS shotgun makes a pump shotgun noise… sheriff fired his 1911 but the hammer is still down afterwards…

[BigMuddy]

The rifle is a Winchester Model 94. No idea the caliber but the smart money would be on a 30-30.

Yeah I saw that hammer down on the 1911 too, but still I like the show. The books are better.

Dan

[Griff]

Big city departments are much the same all over. "Most" officers are not gun guys, and use what's issued. Unless an officer is also SWAT certified and assigned he'll not have a patrol rifle, just a shotgun. A shift or sector sgt might have one. Rural sheriff's patrol units will either have what's issued, or their personal choice. I knew a few older guys that'd carry a lever, usually a .30-30 carbine (Winchesters fit in the shotgun mount w/o mods btw). But, it seems the younger crowd go more for the AR platform.

A few departments have begun exchanging the riot gun (SG) for a patrol rifle (AR).

[44-40 Willy]

I'm not sure how they work it, but the Sheriff's deputies around here carry what ever feels comfortable to them. I was talking to one a few weeks ago and he carries a 357. First wheelgun I've seen in years carried by a LEO. And this is a fairly young guy.

[Charles]

Last Colt SSA I saw in a Texas Peace Officers holster was 1969. Last sixgun of any kind was seen in the holster of a Williamson County Deputy about 12 years ago. I have not seen a levergun i a very long time. Texas Department of Public Safety (Highway Patrol) replaced the Winchester 94 leverguns with the Ruger Mini-14 along time ago. Today there is just a mish-mash of black guns, most of it AR platform.

The sixgun and levergun are long gone from Texas law enforcement.

[DPris]

Here in Utah I've never seen a levergun toted by LE, and I started my career in '76.
For well over 30 years now the .223 carbines have turned up regularly in cop cars up & down the state, from Mini-14s to ARs.

And, I'll put it bluntly: Any administrator who requires his people to carry single-action sixguns in uniformed law enforcement today shows a near total disregard for the safety of his people.
Denis

[MrMurphy]

Around here, ARs predominate, even over shotguns, simply due to the fact they work, and the distances involved (any deputy can be involved in an incident ranging from 30 feet to 500m without even changing streets) and a high propensity for drug dealing types who don't play fair.


I know of 'one' deputy who carried a .30-30 Marlin but that was nearly 20 years ago and he has since retired. At that time, ARs were not commonly seen.

There's some M14s floating around as well, but it's not common.

Last two cops I knew packing wheelguns as a primary arm were the US Marshal for a hefty chunk of Texas who had (for nearly 30 years) been carrying a S&W .45 ACP of some type (at that time, a 625, he'd had others) with moon clips. Another was a university cop carrying a 686 and 6 speedloaders, he shot it better than any auto (and he'd tried most of them). Since it was a low threat enviroment, he was okay with it. This was over 10 years ago.

There's quite a few cops in this area who are gun guys, compete, and carry 1911s on duty at least part time, but mostly, no.

[DPris]

I WOULD have been quite happy finishing up my career with my Smith 25-5, but they forced Glocks on us & there went the revolvers...
Couldn't even carry my Dick Special ankle gun anymore.
I wore that .45 Colt right down to the last shift before it was "Glock or don't show up at all" day.
Still have it, and the Colt.

Also have Grandpa's 1951 Model 94, and I would not have minded having that one along in the car at work before the .223s were finally approved.
Denis

[olyinaz]

Not in AZ that I have seen, but I suppose it's possible one of the rural county Sheriffs may carry one just to feel and look cool. In the counties where I've lived and run around there's just too many gunfights with banditos armed to the hilt with everything you can imagine to be running around with 19th Century cowboy guns down here in the SOUTH West. It's ridiculous. We wouldn't send our troops to Afghanistan with Winchester 1892s and Colt hog legs, why the heck would a LEO in the Wild West down here by the border go afield so armed? LEOs in my neck of the woods roll with ARs and black high-cap semi-auto pistols. They're facing criminals armed with ARs, AKs, and Glocks, and they know it from bitter experience.

And, I'll put it bluntly: Any administrator who requires his people to carry single-action sixguns in uniformed law enforcement today shows a near total disregard for the safety of his people. Denis

My thoughts exactly.

[MrMurphy]

Same where we are.

Cops are up against everything from ticked off old WW2 vets with a rifle (who in this case, sadly, killed the cop in question, who did pretty much everything wrong and paid for it) to good ol'boys on a domestic call to (majority) major gang members and cartel members. As in MS-13, Mexican Mafia, Vice Lords, Tango Blast, Crips, Bloods, and all the various cartels including the (U.S trained originally) Zetas, who think beheading by chainsaw is lots of fun.

Not the wannabe kid type, though those are around as well.

I'd use a .30-30 or a shotgun if it was what I was issued, but considering my personal background, a 16" AR with an optic and a white light with four to six magazines is by far the most common rifle seen in racks around here for police use because about half the cops are prior service.

[Old Time Hunter]

Interesting...way back when I was a youngster, my Grandfather was the county sheriff up in Northern Wisconsin. He carried an old S&W police special .38 as a side arm and his '92 Winchester .44-40 in the double rack alongside a '97 Winchester 12 gauge. 'Course he retired in '64 so things might have been different back then.

Then a couple of weeks ago, up in the same county my GP was sheriff, the sheriff of today visited me at my cabin. Lo and behold, he had a Ruger BH convertible in .45LC/.45ACP in his belt holster! Also had a .45ACP Compact in his under arm shoulder holster too. Got to talk'n and he disclosed that he had a '95 Winchester .30-06 in the car rack beside an M4.

Explaining the .30-06, he said it more reliably went through windshields and engine blocks than the M4 could. Did know if he was trying to be funny.

[DPris]

The only reason I would have been happy to carry Grandpa's Winchester BEFORE the .223s were permitted at my PDs was a matter of comparison.

Too many occasions trying to scrunch down behind a fire hydrant with a shotgun while the guy inside the house was loading up his .308.
Too many occasions trying to work close enough to the house for the shotgun to be realistic while the guy inside/outside was waving his scoped deer rifle around.

Yes, I'm aware slugs CAN be relatively accurate at distances, but once rifles were approved I never carried a shotgun at work again.
LOTTA guys I worked with did the same.

Today, I'd regard anybody who limited himself to a .30-30 carbine voluntarily on the job as being too hung up on nostalgia & not firmly enough rooted in modern reality. And that applies in spades to any rural sheriff's deputy working hundreds of empty square miles on his or her own, far from the nearest backup.

The Winchester "fits" the Longmire character & Hollywood can easily write scenarios where he can manage to survive with it, but real life isn't quite as forgiving as reel life.

Denis

[Terry Murbach]

THE SD STATE TROOPERS CARRY AN M14 RIFLE IN THEIR CAR AS THEY KNOW THE 223/556 IS JUST TOO PUNY FOR SOME JOBS.

[Griff]

Today, I'd regard anybody who limited himself to a .30-30 carbine voluntarily on the job as being too hung up on nostalgia & not firmly enough rooted in modern reality. And that applies in spades to any rural sheriff's deputy working hundreds of empty square miles on his or her own, far from the nearest backup.

The Winchester "fits" the Longmire character & Hollywood can easily write scenarios where he can manage to survive with it, but real life isn't quite as forgiving as reel life.
Denis

Yep, exactly. While I carried a mdl94 on duty as recently as 8 years ago, I was a mounted guy. A mdl94 is still better on a horse than a m4. And, as for sidearms, our dept let us carry what we could qualify with. Back then, couldn't speak for today.

[DPris]

Griff,
Mounted duty has its own special requirements.
I run into the same problem today even in my ATV.
I'd much prefer to carry an AK out in potfarm country, but the shotgun & levergun fit scabbards that I can strap inside the roll cage for instant access, and I have not been able to find a reliable mounting system for either an AK or an AR where I can get at them in a hurry.

Slim levers & 870s tuck away easy, the long-magged semi-autos do not.

Terry,
If my PDs had ever authorized a good .308, I'da had one in the car, believe me.
Denis

[gcburt]

The rifle is a Winchester Model 94. No idea the caliber but the smart money would be on a 30-30.

Yeah I saw that hammer down on the 1911 too, but still I like the show. The books are better.

Dan

Tough to get one of Craig Johnson's story lines into a 45 min script. I like the show, BUT I've read all of the books and REALLY ENJOYED them - everyone.

My wife is puzzled at my laughing out loud going through his books - Johnson's humor just adds to the read!!

[MrMurphy]

More than likely, SD state troopers carry M14s because they got them free from the government.

7.62 with the right load does a number on car bodies, but so do quite a few 5.56 loads (other than ball).

[L_Kilkenny]

The rifle is a Winchester Model 94. No idea the caliber but the smart money would be on a 30-30.

Yeah I saw that hammer down on the 1911 too, but still I like the show. The books are better.

Dan

Tough to get one of Craig Johnson's story lines into a 45 min script. I like the show, BUT I've read all of the books and REALLY ENJOYED them - everyone.

My wife is puzzled at my laughing out loud going through his books - Johnson's humor just adds to the read!!

We looked them up at the local book store last week, they had 4 or 5 different ones. The $15 price tag for a paperback not much bigger than a dime novel sent me runnin though.

[Model 52B]

More than likely, SD state troopers carry M14s because they got them free from the government.

7.62 with the right load does a number on car bodies, but so do quite a few 5.56 loads (other than ball).

Being from SD originally before going to work for the federal govt back east, and having worked for 15 years under some very tight fisted administrations in SD, I agree with your assessment.

It's a big flat state though and ranges are long so the .308 is popular in it's own regard. In the mid 1980s I bought a match grade M1A from the Ziebach County Sheriff for $800. He thought he needed a weapon with more range, and eventually figured out it was way too long for a patrol rifle and would not do much good in the trunk if he really needed it.

Several years later he ended up with an M16A1 from the 1208 program (the 1033 program after 1997).

----

Several years ago there was some discussion of the ways to modify an M16A1 to be better suited to the police carbine role. The low dollar route is to shorten the barrel to just in front of the original hand guard, which makes it short enough to function in a rack in the car. The other route is to use a carbine upper on the A1 lower and I ended up buying a surplus A1 upper that way when the department went the M4gery route.

----

A few months ago I noted someone was doing tactical training for officers using lever guns. The idea being more departments could afford those or rural officers already had them, as opposed to buying civilian AR-15s, or even procuring 1033 weapons, which have not been shipping for about the last year.

----

As for the actual show, state (or county) law enforcement and tribal law enforcement can pose some challenges from time to time, but I never saw the level of jurisdictional and personal animosity that seems to be a regular issue on Longmire. Apparently they think it adds drama or an element of racial tension.

I've also never seen a rural county in the Dakotas or in Wyoming that has one or more murders per week. I crunched the numbers once for Cambell County, which seems to best fit "Absaroka" county, and figured the murder rate would have to be 112 per 100,000 with just one murder per episode. There seem to be more like 2 or 3 per episode. That makes Detroit MI, Chicago IL or Compton CA look like Disney World.

[DPris]

Well, as somebody once said- This IS the West!
Denis