The neglected shotgun........

[L_Kilkenny]

Sorry, I'm not talkin beat up rust buckets. Talkin one of the least practiced guns I have. It dawned on the other day that as much as I tout a good pump gun as a must have, and I do use mine a good bit, I realized I spend very little time with it. For game I can use them all right, killed my share of critters with them, but I don't shoot em all that fast or well. Pretty sure a teenager after a 1 hour shotgun defense course could smoke me when it comes to that kinda of shooting. Thinkin I may have to do something about that.

One of the things that got me to thinkin about this......... While anything handgun/rifle ammo and supplies is in a deep hurt right now shotgun ammo and supplies are on every ammo shelf I've seen lately. The draw of plentiful ammo is definitely there.

So what say you...... Are you good with a shotgun? Do you practice? Do you even want too?

[Mescalero]

Yes, I do shoot and practice with mine, but I also realise it's limitations.
So, that said; it does not occupy a position of primary arm for me.

[North Country Gal]

I grew up bird hunting and used shotguns more than rifles and just a bit more than pistols (my first love). I used pumps, autos, doubles and O/Us. Living where I do, now, the bird hunting isn't much, so I spend nearly all of my time with rifles and handguns. You are right about the ammo, though. Plenty of shotgun ammo, around, that's for sure.

Pumps were always an issue for me as far as follow up shots and, now and then, as far as short shucking, probably because, like most gals, my arms are a bit short to get the needed leverage on the slide on a pump gun. As much as I have always admired Model 12s, they were the worst. Have always done better with autos and the two-barreled stuff for follow up shots. As a self defense gun, not sure I could trust a pump.

[gcburt]

In another thread I mentioned firing a friend's Marlin Lever 410 a week ago - Today.

I enjoyed shooting it, and am thinking about adding one to my collection.

I have a 12 gage Auto 5, but I think one of the short lever 410's would make a better home defense weapon.

It would also be kinder to my torn-rotator-cuff sholder.

[Sixgun]

Shotguns................mmmmmmmmmmmmm..........Shoot 'em? I shoot anything with a trigger but shotguns are low on the priority list. Probably because they are only good for "minute of torso", trap/skeet shooting or bird/deer hunting, the latter 2 I seldom do anymore.

But like that that guy in the commercials who drinks the beer, "I don't shoot shotguns often, but when I do, its a classic pre-war double barrel".

Maybe a half dozen or so laying around, mostly box lock Ithacas.--------------Sixgun

[nemhed]

I've never considered myself much of a shotgunner. I've bought and sold several shotguns over the years and never had a "keeper" until I picked up my current Rem 870 Express. It came in all black with a plastic stock, so the first thing I did was camo it. It came with a standard field barrel and screw in modified choke. The second thing I did was buy a 22" turkey barrel with extra full turkey choke tube, and I started shooting it like a rifle. That's when things got interesting. With magnum turkey loads I've killed some varmints at 50-60 yds. So now it's my go to gun when a rifle doesn't fill the bill.

[nemhed]

And yes, ironically there is plenty of shotgun ammo on the shelves of my local stores. The only problem, to me, with shotgun ammo is that 100 rounds takes up a lot of space. I have also repeatedly told people that if I could only own one firearm, it would be be a 12 gauge pump.

[Blaine]

I hardly ever shoot shotgun, but, I seem to have some limited natural ability with shotguns, especially with close/quick firing situations. The high birds seem to elude me, however. If I could figure out the high birds, I could really wow them at the clay sports...I don't consider a shotgun something to be aimed. It's more like a Zen process that can not withstand too much thinking about it....I don't have anything real nice. A Baikal 12 SxS, 20 Uplander, and the 12 870 Tactical....oh, the little single shot NEF 410 for grouse, and such...

[octagon]

I Have quite a few, but the only one that gets used hard is my Browning Broadway, which is a magic dove killing machine and a joy to shoot. Cooked up a huge pile of dove for Thanksgiving - Heavenly. Got my Boy a 20 o/u CZ for Christmas, he is happy to rise above birddog status.
I do keep a Model 97 stoked up at the house for anyone who makes it passed the big mean black dog, but he is batting 1000 so far the last 10 years - good boy.

[Grizz]

Shotguns................mmmmmmmmmmmmm..........Shoot 'em? I shoot anything with a trigger but shotguns are low on the priority list. Probably because they are only good for "minute of torso", trap/skeet shooting or bird/deer hunting, the latter 2 I seldom do anymore.

This needs to be addressed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3rfYnfp ... =fvwp&NR=1

Frank thinks this is actually 100 yards. Even so, it is 425 gr from a smoothbore.

But this one really is at 230 yards and really is a smoothbore shotgun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNTyCcip-ks

myth: BUSTED

here is a video patterning 00 buck. one particular load is safe to use around the house and yard if you can hit what you're aiming at. another myth BUSTED.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxlE6jG0 ... r_embedded

my 12 is my #1 house gun with a G-22 to buy time to get to it.

my 12 has a blade front and receiver rear sight and is easier to use than my 45/70

with hard cast round ball and hard cast shot I don't think the 12 gives up much if anything inside my perimeter. for real dangerous game I would prefer James Gates brilliant load:

http://www.dixieslugs.com/products.html bottom item on this page.

12 ga owns the ground from 230 yds on in. Not too shabby, eh?

[Mescalero]

Oy Vey.

[Barcelona Rick]

Up until the late '70s I literally shot an old Newport 12 gauge SXS until the frame cracked....I reloaded spent hulls with a Lee Loader until I had to melt some wax on the crimp to keep the shot from falling out......it was my everything gun....now I don't shoot much anymore because of disability....can't take the recoil and don't stand or walk very well.....

rick

[Mescalero]

jumbeaux,
I am saddened to hear this about you, go to lighter, more manuverable guns, concentrate on speed and accuracy.

[Barcelona Rick]

Bro I appreciate it.....lucky to have a son, grandson and granddaughter that assist old papa...... mostly enjoy watching them shoot now......

rick

[Hayseed]

Shotguns................mmmmmmmmmmmmm..........Shoot 'em? I shoot anything with a trigger but shotguns are low on the priority list. Probably because they are only good for "minute of torso", trap/skeet shooting or bird/deer hunting, the latter 2 I seldom do anymore.

This needs to be addressed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3rfYnfp ... =fvwp&NR=1

Frank thinks this is actually 100 yards. Even so, it is 425 gr from a smoothbore.

But this one really is at 230 yards and really is a smoothbore shotgun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNTyCcip-ks

myth: BUSTED

here is a video patterning 00 buck. one particular load is safe to use around the house and yard if you can hit what you're aiming at. another myth BUSTED.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxlE6jG0 ... r_embedded

my 12 is my #1 house gun with a G-22 to buy time to get to it.

my 12 has a blade front and receiver rear sight and is easier to use than my 45/70

with hard cast round ball and hard cast shot I don't think the 12 gives up much if anything inside my perimeter. for real dangerous game I would prefer James Gates brilliant load:

http://www.dixieslugs.com/products.html bottom item on this page.

12 ga owns the ground from 230 yds on in. Not too shabby, eh?

Grizz, what sights yer 12 sport ? Im remodeling a mossy clone an looking for ideas .

[Grizz]

Not sure exactly, it's a norinco 870 clone called a hawk sometimes. the front is a soldered on ramped blade and the rear is a "winged" adjustable peep. not threaded for inserts. just a knock off of something they saw in a movie I'd guess.

I can post pictures tomorrow if that will help...

[336A]

Folks aren't exactly as disadvantaged as most would suppose with a shotgun, this video dove tails with what Grizz posted http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNTyCcip-ks

Here is another just disregard the guy's goofiness with the gorilla suit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRHmDaDnwDU

I grew up hunting with shotguns as that was the only legal arm for hunting deer where I grew up until a few years back. This past year I got back to my roots so to speak and purchased a 20" field barrel for my Mossberg 500. I removed the modified choke and replaced it with the IMP CYL and used Brenneke K.O. slugs. There are a couple of reasons I switched other than getting back to roots too. Here in SW GA vegitation is thick as all get out, and I like getting after my quary where they live which is right in the thick of it. The last thing I wanted was to hit deer with a rifle only to have it run down one of the many steep draws we have here before expiring. I hunted with just the two beads and it is very quick handleing indeed.

From past expereience I knew that a deer that is hit with a slug will take a instant dirt nap, almost as if you turn a switch off. This past season was no different, I shot a little buck as he was facing me from about 55 yards. Not exactly the shot I wanted but it was all I was going to get. I lined up the two beads and pasted them right between the front shoulders and let er' rip. The slug hit exactly where I aimed and that little buck did a back flip at impact and expired on the spot in short order.

The shotgun is a very versatile gun more so than most want to give it credit for. I like rifles just as much as the next fella but there is no doubting the shotguns versatility or effectiveness. With just switching ammo a person is pretty much ready for anything with a trusty shotgun.

[L_Kilkenny]

Hickok is a bad influence. I've taken and made longish 12ga shots that with a little afterthought I probably should of passed on but I'd never of dreamed of that kind of hit/miss ratio @ 230. Open sights no less. Me thinks I'm better off staying away from such things.

Until recently my shotguns had 2 roles, bird hunting (28") and deer hunting (18"). Sure, I'd bag an occasional rabbit or squirrel and yes I did go trap shooting, once. But last year I invested in a 22" barrel that came with an extra full choke tube for my 1300 Ranger. Intent was/is for a tight country, do anything I need doing gun. Not only that but for field work a shotgun is not only the best gun for many jobs, in some cases it's the only gun.

Any how, headin outside to change oil in all the cars/trucks, think I'll lay waste to some plastic bottles first.

[MrMurphy]

No .410 should be used in defense except as a last resort. Seen guys fail to stop from multiple 12 gauge buck loads to the chest. I know a cop who emptied an 870 into a guy from less than 15 yards, all solid chest hits, and had to finish the fight with his pistol.


Shotguns are a highly useful all-around piece, and at close range, have some devastating firepower. They're also limited in ammo, not quick to reload, and (with pumps) easy for untrained people to cause a malfunction in.

Having spent the majority of my adult life with an M16, M-4 or AR-15, I use one for defense, but for many years a short barreled 12 gauge (due to CA law and availability) was my primary piece.

Inside 30 yards against only a few opponents, the shotgun is a good piece to have.

[Mescalero]

Thank You Mr. Murphy.
That is the thought process I have had.
Good to see it confirmed by real life experience.

[buckeyeshooter]

I shoot CAS, I practice alot! I shoot a hammered side by side for several categories and an old 97 Winchester for others. If I shooting sporting clays or 5 stand -- its a remington 11-87.

[Grizz]

MrMurphy

To your point, why did the buckshot fail? I have my own ideas but they aren't informed by experience shooting people.
What about successful fight stopping with 12ga? Can you relate any real-world examples for comparison?

thanks
Grizz

[MrMurphy]

I've never shot anyone with a shotgun (or anything else) though i've seen about 20-25 shootings immediately afterwards, including by shotgun.

Shotguns are typically successful, though remember, what actually stops people are either 1. "it hurts!" 2. Immediate central nervous system shutdown i.e brain/spine hits and you cut the puppet strings 3. Massive bleedout. Even with the heart destroyed, the brain and muscles can function for about a minute. The 1986 Miami shootout being an excellent example, one of the shooters had a bullet in the heart yet still killed at least one more agent.

Buck gives you the best likelihood of hitting a lot of vitals in one shot, its not to be taken lightly. Some people just dont want to stop. Medal of Honor citations where guys take 6-8 rifle hits nd keep going should clue you in. There, a headshot might be necessary.

[336A]

I remember reading something in Jim Cirillos' book "Guns, Bullets and gunfights" about an assailant not dropping after being hit by a 12GA slug. Granted stuff happens, but if i knew I were going into a gunfight I'd much rather have a shotgun than a handgun. Even during WWII folks were known to have survive after beng hit with full power cartridges such as 8x57's and 30-06's. Not to pick nits here as I could be wrong, but I seem to remember in the Miami shoot out the 9mm round only bruised the assailants heart after going through his arm from the side. This allowed him to stay in the fight a bit longer, and is also why the FBI came up with the 12" penetration minimum.

[RIHMFIRE]

I shoot shotguns more than any other..
skeet, trap, 5 stand, and sporting clays,...mostly international skeet...low gun
and we goof around alot to see how close we can get to the house
and still hit the bird...hitting 2 birds with one shot.....
we shoot doubles skeet once in a while
We used to load up 2 lincoln traps with doubles..load up 4 and try to hit them all

I dont practice with slugs or buck shot...to expensive...

[L_Kilkenny]

I remember reading something in Jim Cirillos' book "Guns, Bullets and gunfights" about an assailant not dropping after being hit by a 12GA slug. Granted stuff happens, but if i knew I were going into a gunfight I'd much rather have a shotgun than a handgun. Even during WWII folks were known to have survive after beng hit with full power cartridges such as 8x57's and 30-06's. Not to pick nits here as I could be wrong, but I seem to remember in the Miami shoot out the 9mm round only bruised the assailants heart after going through his arm from the side. This allowed him to stay in the fight a bit longer, and is also why the FBI came up with the 12" penetration minimum.

Being in Iowa it seems like a couple hunters each year are involved in shooting accidents during deer season. A nephew of mine had the unfortunate circumstance of having one of these in his group a couple years ago. A hunter was shot in the chest, I believe by his brother, with a slug. My nephew ran out of the woods to meet the EMT's but by the time they got there the hunter walked out of the woods to meet them himself. It's not the only case of hunters surviving serious wounds, far from help, during deer season. I just don't have the particulars on any others.

Somewhere, either here or over at the 24HourCampfire someone posted a link to what basically amounts to another take on stop percentages ( not M&S, wish I had saved the link). It didn't just give thumbs up, thumbs down for one shot stops but included other aspects including rifles and shotguns, multiple shots, etc. To sum up the results; .22lrs weren't as bad as some would have you believe and shotguns, while the best, were not 100% for one shot. 2 shots from a shot gun were dang close to it though. Honestly, it'd take a miracle to survive multiple well placed loads of buckshot.

I'm not worried about reload speed, not worried about sustained gun fights and it's not like a shotgun is that slow to top off anyhow. I always figured that in the very rare event I actually needed to use a gun for HD/SD I wasn't gonna be too picky. I'm using whatever is closest.

[Mescalero]

I think I recognize the guy in the 230 yard video.
That is Bennelli's exhibition/trick shooter.
So, it would be safe to assume some preperation had been done prior to the video, the goal after all ............. is to sell shotguns.

[Grizz]

I think I recognize the guy in the 230 yard video.
That is Bennelli's exhibition/trick shooter.
So, it would be safe to assume some preperation had been done prior to the video, the goal after all ............. is to sell shotguns.

That is Hickok45. He has a couple hundred youtube videos. I don't know anything about him selling shotguns. He isn't selling anything in any of the videos I've seen. And he isn't using a benelli in that video. As far as prep, that guy shoots tens of thousands of rounds at his range and pretty much has it all dialed in......

Grizz

[Mescalero]

If they are two seperate people, I do not know either of them.
He reminded me of the Bennelli vids I have seen.
I will try to google it up.

[stew71]

So what say you...... Are you good with a shotgun? Do you practice? Do you even want too?

The ducks, pheasants, geese, and doves in our meat locker would probably say yes.

As for practice, few things are more enjoyable than a round of sporting clays with friends and my Browning A-5.

Or my Ruger Red Label.

[Grizz]

If they are two seperate people, I do not know either of them.
He reminded me of the Bennelli vids I have seen.
I will try to google it up.

Here's the guy I was referring to. He's pretty down to earth.

http://www.youtube.com/user/hickok45

lots of detractors. nothing breeds whiners like success.

[Mescalero]

They look a lot alike.