First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

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KirkD
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First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by KirkD »

A fellow is always anxious when he gets a new rifle. The big question with me is how accurate it is going to be. This is the fifth vintage Winchester Model 1894 38-55 to fall into my hands. The other four have all shot very well, but how would this one do? I had sold my long-time owned 38-55 with the idea of getting one that was in higher condition, hopefully with a lot of original blueing. Here is a photo of my ‘new’ 38-55:

Image

FACTORY INFORMATION:
Serial number applied: 26 January, 1897
Date received in warehouse: 9 June, 1897
Type: Rifle
Calibre: 38-55
Barrel: octagon
Trigger: plain
Date shipped: 8 July, 1897
Order #: 9428

FINDING A LOAD:
All my previous 38-55 load development had been done with a wide variety of powders, using either toilet paper filler or no filler at all. After years of load development, and measuring the velocity with powder forward and powder back, I’ve come to the conclusion that a good filler is essential if one wants consistency in the larger black powder cartridges of the late 1800's. By ‘good’ filler, I means something that fills the space between the powder and the base of the bullet, but is very light, highly compressible, and does not allow the powder grains to work back into the filler. After carefully reading and re-reading Sherman Bell’s pressure results with various fillers, I’ve decided that cotton and kapok are good candidates, primarily because they are also cheap, as opposed to some commercially produced fillers. I bought a pound of cotton at the local fabric store and that will last me for a few years.

All this meant that I needed to start load development for the 38-55 pretty much from scratch, this time using cotton filler. My powder of choice for most of my old black powder cartridges is 5744. I can go a little slower with bigger cases, such as the 45-70, or a little faster powders with smaller cases, such as the 32-20 or 38-40. Consulting my old records, to get an idea of how much 5744 to start with, I decided to try 17 grains of 5744 plus cotton filler, under a soft cast (clip on wheel weights, air cooled) bullet from my custom brass Accurate Mould. The sized and lubed bullet with gas check mic’d at .3795 and weighed 262 grains.

I loaded up one cartridge, stepped out the back door, and fired it over my Chrony into a stump. 1,372 fps was the result. Original black powder velocities were closer to 1,320 fps so I went back into the house and loaded up another cartridge, but this time with only 16.5 grains of 5744. Another shot over the Chrony and the result was 1,361 fps. That wasn’t as low as I thought it would be so I reduced the load to just 16 grains of 5744 and Chrony’d that one …. 1,307 fps. I decided I’d stay there and loaded up two more with the same load to see what sort of spread in velocity I was getting. The three shots gave me 1,307 fps, and an extreme spread of just 3 ft/sec. That is what the cotton filler does, it gives nice burning consistency.

I took a look down the bore and noted with pleasure that there was no trace whatsoever of leading starting anywhere that I could see. That suggested that my bullet diameter was good. There were a lot of unburned kernels of 5744 strewn down the bore, in spite of the powder being held back against the primer by the cotton. I’ve learned to ignore this trait of 5744. I may try a magnum primer in some loads, however, to see what that does for unburned kernels.

RANGE TEST:
Now that I had decided on 16 grains of 5744 with cotton filler as my load, the next thing to do was to test it out. Just in case the load proved to be awful, I only loaded up six cartridges and waited for a lunch break where I could make it to the range. I had to head into the city on Friday, so I stopped at the range on my way in for a quick test of my load and this vintage Winchester 38-55.

It will be a while yet before the snow is gone off our range. There was a couple inches of ice around the shooting bench. Here’s a photo looking out at the 50 yard bunker.

Image

The main thing when walking around by the bench was not to slip and crack my skull on the ice or concrete shooting benches as I went down. I wasn’t so concerned about my skull as I was about regaining consciousness and finding out I had put a big ding in my nice condition 38-55. Fractured skulls can fix themselves, but a ding in this fine old Winchester would be a tragedy.

I decided to put a target up at 50 yards because I wasn’t sure exactly where this old rifle would shoot. The alignment of the sights suggested it should be good as far as windage went, but I had played around with the screws on the front sight and I thought it might now be off by an inch or two. I took a shot and ran down to see where it hit. Yep, I ran because I couldn’t wait to see the results. The hole was about 2” to the right in windage but about a foot high. It must have been sighted in for 150 yards. I screwed down the tang sight and took another shot. This one was still about 8” high so I went back and screwed the sight all the way down and cranked out another shot. This one was about right in elevation for 50 yards.

Now I had a decision to make. Should I take my last three shots at 100 yards or 50. If I took them at 50 yards, I would have a four shot group to look at, but 2” in windage at 50 yards might translate into 4” of windage at 100 and the cross-wind was pretty good. I decided to fire my last three cartridges at 50 yards and let ‘er rip. This time I figured I would walk, but that only lasted the first 5 yards and then I broke into a run. This was it! This would tell me how good my load and rifle were so excitement got the better of me and I ran.

The results were three shots into 3/8” and then the proverbial flyer, which extended the 50-yard, four shot group to 15/16”. Here’s a photo of the target:

Image

WHAT IS NEXT?
Well, I’m going to load up a passel of cartridges and get the windage adjusted so it is bang on and then I’m going to shoot a few 100 yard groups. If those are good, then I’m moving over to the 200 yard range. I’d also like to try the magnum primers (I’m using Winchester primers) to see if it reduces the unburned kernels. Then I may mess around with IMR 4198 or RL-7 to see what happens. There’s going to be good times shooting this summer!
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by Old Savage »

Nice Rifle, nice bullet, nice group. You know, just yesterday I said to myself - wonder what that Kirk as been up to.
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by 86er »

Great story and a fine example of load development with excellent results. Congratulations on your rifle!
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by pwl44m »

I thought I was envious but realized Envy is wanting something that someone else has. I don't want that One, I want one just like it. Makes sense to Me. Photos, Report, Target, simply fantastic Kirk. "One Day"
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by earlmck »

That looks real promising, Kirk. Fine rifle and a fine report. Great!
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by rjohns94 »

Always enjoy your interesting and informative posts, even more so when they are talking about fine lever guns. Well done on all accounts. I look forward to hearing future results with this caliber. I have lived a sheltered life me never shot a 38-55. Net it makes a great hunting cartridge.
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by Borregos »

Kirk, that is interesting.
I have just started working on your "old" Winchester in 38-55, will keep you posted on results :D
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by Nath »

Excellent Kirk, I think your onto something there!

It is nice when men our age still get a little excited like this :)

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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by Borregos »

I would be interested to see a closeup of the front sight.
Also I sent you an email :D
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by Pitchy »

Wow that`s a dandy lookin rifle Kirk and great shooter. 8)
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by C. Cash »

Life is good. Beautiful Winchester and nice groups. :mrgreen:
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by KirkD »

Pete, here's a photo of the front sight. If I fold it down, there is another bead lower than the one when it is flipped up. The lower one is for a low profile rear sight and the upper on for the tang sight for longer distance shooting.

Image
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by Borregos »

Thanks Kirk :D
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by gamekeeper »

C. Cash wrote:Life is good. Beautiful Winchester and nice groups. :mrgreen:
+ 1.... :D
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by .45colt »

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: .
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by Sixgun »

Kirk,
I must say, you always do snag nice Winchesters with lots of condition.

Your front sight is the Lyman "Beech" style. Very collectable and in itself is worth a c-note or more.

Forget the magnum primers--been there and done that. Accurate ballistician told me there is nothing to gain. 5744 has a high nitro content and regular primers are fine. Same with fillers. The only thing they recommend is a firm crimp.--------------Sixgun
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by quicksylver »

O.K So it's a beauty ! I have its clone in (yes the exciting) 30-30 WCF. 1917. Had it at the range today and could not get it under 5/8" at 100. But then again I did not resize the brass, the lyman 311407 w g/cs were over 15 years old and the primers were at least 10. The Rx7 was new so I used 20 grs.
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by M. M. Wright »

Congratulations Kirk! Great job on a fine rifle.
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by Shasta »

Very good report, Kirk, and great pictures too. :D

Those Accurate molds are tops! I bought a plain based one for my .38-55, but haven't had a chance to really work with it as much as I would like to. I'm hoping it will work well in my .38-72 also.

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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by Griff »

Sixgun wrote:Kirk,
...
Forget the magnum primers--been there and done that. Accurate ballistician told me there is nothing to gain. 5744 has a high nitro content and regular primers are fine. Same with fillers. The only thing they recommend is a firm crimp.--------------Sixgun
Ditto. That's some fine rifle. I have to start seriously looking for a .38-55... But first, I want a .32-40 1885! But, I might settle for one in .38-55!
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by Aussie Chris »

She is a keeper ;)

Very nice and as always great report Kirk.

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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by Hombre »

Kirk, beautiful rifle and very nice pictures.
Thank you very much for your report.

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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by Pop Watts »

As usual your photography and range report are excellent and that 1894 just looks like a gem.

Could you please give me a bit more information on your cotton filler?

Is it like cotton waste or more like cotton balls?

Sorry, but we may use different names for the stuff hrer in Australia.

I would like to try and source something to use as filler in some 45-70 loads for my "new to me but not as pretty as yours" 1886.

Thanks,

Pop.
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by Marvin S »

Kirk, I posted some questions over at WC site. Nice write up.
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by KirkD »

Pop Watts wrote:Could you please give me a bit more information on your cotton filler?

Is it like cotton waste or more like cotton balls?
I use raw, uncleaned cotton. I would not call it waste, it is the cotton as fresh picked off the plant. There is still small bits of seed or leaf in it sometime. I would prefer cleaned cotton, but that is all they had. Cotton balls might be more like what I use.
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by Catshooter »

Very sweet rifle Kirk and an excellent report.

I have never been a believer in fillers, but you're begining to make me wonder! Although my 38-55 load of 31 grains of AA 2230 almost come to the base of my Lyman 375449. Not much room left, maybe not any the bullet could be touching.

I do shoot 15 grains of Universal Clays in my 45-70 and it stops way short of the bullet base. Mmm.

Tell me though, why the gas check for a load like that one? I check my 375449s but they're going over 1700 feet and will lead with air cooled wheel weights at that speed.

What a lovely rifle and I'm sure you're proud to own it. I hope that puppy is in next year's calendar! :)


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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by KirkD »

No particular reason for the gas check. It is the only mould I have. Sometimes a GC can tighten up a group a bit.
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by rangerider7 »

You got the eye! That's a nice looking rifle and I know just how you feel the first time you shoot a newly acquired gun. It sure feels good when it shoots like that one. :D
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by 2ndovc »

Very nice!

I have my Grandfather's 94 in .38-55 made in 1907. It's not as nice on the outside as yours but the bore is perfect.

I had a hard time with my handloads at first but a suggestion from Sixgun solved the problem. I was pushing the bullets too fast and with his help I brought the groups down from four inches to ones that look like yours.

It's one of my favorite rifles to spend the day walking the woods and shooting just for fun!

jb 8)
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by stretch »

Wow, Kirk! :mrgreen:

Beautiful rifle, and it obviously shoots well, too.

Enjoy it!

-Stretch
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by JerryB »

Kirk, your past work on load development has sure paid off for you with that fine old 38-55. Thanks for all the help with my 32wcf and the 38-55, that 5744 powder is great.
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Very nice Kirk! Looks like you didn't have to worry about sweating on your gun!
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by Yodar »

Hi Kirk,
You said you might try “messing around” with RL-7 and IMR-4198 in your “new” Winchester in .38-55 WCF. I have been there and done that and I would like to pass on what has worked in my .38-55. My rifle in a Winchester Model 94 rifle, circa 1940, that has been completely re-built. It looks nice but is far from original. It is equipped with a Marble tang sight and the 24 inch barrel has a groove diameter of 0.375”.

The first load is as follows: W-W cases; CCI #200 primers; 19 grains of IMR-4198; 265 grain, cast lead, gas check SAEC #373 bullet, 0.376” diameter; OAL=2.50”; Lee crimped. The best five-shot group at 50 yards measured 13/16”. Average muzzle velocity was 1306 fps.

The second load is as follows: W-W cases; CCI #200 primers; 23.3 grains of IMR-4198; same bullet as above; OAL= 2.50”; Lee crimped. The best five-shot group at 50 yards was, again, 13/16”. Average muzzle velocity was 1489 fps.
Another load that is a little more pleasant to shoot is as follows: Same cases and primers as above; 18 ½ grains of IMR-4198 behind a 240 grain, cast lead, non-gas checked Oregon Trails Laser Cast bullet, 0.377” diameter. Five shot group at 50 yards was 1” and the muzzle velocity was 1316 fps.

Give them a try and let us know if these loads work for you. Good luck and safe hand loading and shooting.
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by 1894c »

stretch wrote:Wow, Kirk! :mrgreen:

Beautiful rifle, and it obviously shoots well, too.

Enjoy it!

-Stretch
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by RIHMFIRE »

geeeeeezzzz
where do you find these great look'n and fine shootn rifles?
outstanding!
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by KirkD »

Men, glad you can enjoy this old Winchester along with me.

Yodar: Thanks for that load info. I'm looking forward to trying out some of them later in the spring
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by olyinaz »

Good golly that is a FINE lookin' rifle! And your writeup and pictures were just wonderful Kirk. Very much enjoyed and appreciated!!
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Re: First shooting of my 'new' 38-55 (photos)

Post by Hillbillygunsmith »

Kirk; Great post and photos. I think everyone here knows what rifle will in your hands this coming fall when deer season opens up. We will expect another post and pictures when you nail your first deer with your "new" 38-55. Makes you wonder just how many deer that rifle has put down over the years to supply vension for the table. :mrgreen:
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