Marlin Barrel Steel

[C. Cash]

Does anyone know what it's makeup is? Did their "Special Smokeless Steel" formula stay the same? From folks who have reamed the chambers of both the 336 Marlin and 94 Winchesters, they seem to report that the Winchester chrome moly steel is good bit harder to ream out. Always been curious as to what Marlin uses(ed).

[BAGTIC]

What years were the Winchesters in question made? When Winchester went to hammer forged barrels it resulted in tougher harder steel due to the forging process. I believe many reborers will tell you that forged barrel are harder to drill, ream, rifle.

[44-40 Willy]

I recently read an old 1983 American Rifleman article about a factory tour of the old Marlin plant and it was stated there that Marlin used 4140 steel for their centerfire barrels.

[C. Cash]

Thank you gents. Yeah I was talking about modern rifles. I assume Winchester steel has been the same since the 30's. So, both would be 4140 then but only the Winchester is "chrome moly?". I could see how the hammer forging would also help it out. I doubt there is little practical difference between the two, especially with sane loads and careful cleaning practices.

[sore shoulder]

4140 is chromoly steel.

[C. Cash]

Very interesting. So, if both the same steel formula then the hammer forgoing process makes the difference in terms of how tough it is to drill out or machine? Slim Iorg noted when taking both a Marlin 336 and Win. 94 from 30/30 to the AI that it was much more difficult to ream out the Win and the steel came out fine, whereas the Marlin steel was more coarse and easier to drill. Hope I remember that correctly. Somehow, Ruger is also able to obtain super hardness with its investment castings and not the hammer forge method that Win. used.

[Mescalero]

Chris,
That is known as "work" hardening.
Weaver scopes were hammer forged over a mandrel.

[C. Cash]

Hey you learn something everyday....thank you Mescalero and all here. So, work hardened steel should make it less susceptible to wear from contact? But does it also improve the strength of the steel as related to outward pressure generated by smokeless centerfire? Sometimes, as in Muzzleloaders, harder isn't always better.

[Mescalero]

Yes,
but not demonstrably, like hardening to a " C " scale number.
Hammer forging introduces friction, thus heat, re-alighning the molecular structure at that level as opposed to the way it came from the melt.

[C. Cash]

OK....makes sense to me. Thank you for explaining that Mescalero.

[Old Savage]

Does it realign the molecular structure throughout or on the surfaces?

[Mescalero]

In scope tubes because of the thinner wall, all the way through,
I am not sure about rifle barrels because they have a thicker wall area, but the rifling is made on the mandrel so it must have penetrated that far.

[Buck Elliott]

Ruger's investment-cast parts are also heat-treated and are mostly SAE 4140 or 4150 (chrome moly) steel. The heat treatment hardens the parts all the way through, as opposed to case hardening, which leaves a glass-hard "case" over a soft, ductile core...

[C. Cash]

Ruger steel is amazing. I have toted and shot my Ruger Super Blackhawk a good bit since 1989(lots of factory jacketed early on)and except for the cylinder drag marks it still looks new.

[sore shoulder]

As I understand it Ruger uses Carpenter steel in their stainless guns. I believe it has an elastic property. Think it was a Marlin engineer on a forum talking about it.

[Leverdude]

As important to machinability as the type of steel is the harding & tempering of it. From what I gather you dont want a very hard steel for a barrel, you want a tough one.

[Buck Elliott]

Most barrel makers use steel in a "normalized" condition -- heated to approx 700°F, and air cooled.. That relieves internal stresses from the rolling process..

The "Carpenter" steel, mentioned above, is used by Ruger for their .454 and .480 Cylinders, and has particular properties that make it well adapted to that use.. I have some articles regarding it, buried in my considerable stack of stuff..

[Old Savage]

Leverdude - you're back - where ya been?

[Leverdude]

I pop in every once in awhile OS but havent had the time to participate as much as before. Havent been able to shoot or tinker as much either. Its been a little harder to get by lately than I'd got accustomed to. But fear not, I'm still here.

[C. Cash]

I pop in every once in awhile OS but havent had the time to participate as much as before. Havent been able to shoot or tinker as much either. Its been a little harder to get by lately than I'd got accustomed to. But fear not, I'm still here.

Good to hear Leverdude! Thanks one and all for your input. Don't know why steel has always interested me, especially as related to how it acts as gunbarrels/parts, but it does.

[Mescalero]

It's a great subject, when we hook up; we will have something to talk about.

[sore shoulder]

I pop in every once in awhile OS but havent had the time to participate as much as before. Havent been able to shoot or tinker as much either. Its been a little harder to get by lately than I'd got accustomed to. But fear not, I'm still here.

Hi Ken!

[Old Savage]

Leverdude, come back - always interesting.

[C. Cash]

It's a great subject, when we hook up; we will have something to talk about.

Look forward to that very much Mescalero!