17 HMR pros/cons

Sigmar · Post by **Sigmar** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:12 pm

opinions ? Thinking of a small game gun

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:19 pm

pro=ammo is still available.

3leggedturtle · Post by **3leggedturtle** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:33 pm

PROS: 100 rounds weigh next to nothing, Dead on aiming from 25 to 125yards, fairly quiet when shooting.

CONS: Body shots ruin a lot of meat. Need to buy new cleaning rods and equipment.

I have both 17MACH2 and 17HMR. My rifles, both NEF Handi-rifles weigh too much for walking in the woods all day, neck and shoulder get really dirty after 10-15 rounds hurting accuracy. YMMV 3leg

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:31 pm

At the Lacy Cabela's , that .17 rimfire is the only rimfire available, except for a box or two of shorts, or snake shot....There were hundreds of boxes of it for a non-gouge price.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:50 pm

Yea lots of .17 at Walmart. I don't see the attraction personally. If I want flat shooting I can double that range with more energy for less money with a downloaded .223, and a CCI Velociter .22LR isn't too far behind it.

Buddy of mine commented the other day, ".17 HMR isn't a round, it's a cult."

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:32 pm

I have no desire for anything.17 cal. A large portion of my fun with guns is reloading and load development. Those little .17 caliber bullets are a pain to handle and quality ones not inexpensive to buy. Rimfires are still on the dealers shelf though.

JcJ78 · Post by **JcJ78** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:09 pm

3leggedturtle wrote:PROS: 100 rounds weigh next to nothing, Dead on aiming from 25 to 125yards, fairly quiet when shooting.

CONS: Body shots ruin a lot of meat. Need to buy new cleaning rods and equipment.

^^this.

I like .22 wmr because with 33 grain VMAX you still get 100yard + hold on shots. With 40 gr softpoints, you can kill a coyote with a body shot at 100+.
That said,my cousin has a Savage HMR and I held on its ear at 100, and it hit it right in the ear. Dropped.

Edit: I guess I mean it depends on what "small game" is. Its too destructive IMO for a rabbit gun, its too destructive most of the time for a squirrel gun (unless you gonna make squirrel or rabbit stew

). Its got range and energy to shoot groundhogs or prarie dogs or woodchucks or whatever you call em. Or beavers, or coyotes (headshots IMO), or corn stealin' coons, or probably javelina if you inside 120, but I don't have no javelina experience.

I have 3 10/22's and I'm seriously knocking around puttin one to .17M2. I already have a AW 77/22 WMR also.

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:59 pm

for pests its fine pdogs, marmots, gophers etc. will work on fox and coyotes on a broadside body shot or headshot but those arent always available and at 100 a wind moves it around. if you are wanting a combo pest & predator gun go with a 22 mag as it will do both 30 gr does pests very well 40 gr works on coyotes very well. 17 is still 3$ +- a box more than 22 mag. danny

BenT · Post by **BenT** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:21 am

My favorite gun I bought last year was a Savage in 17HMR. I use it for sniping crows and pigeons around the farm. No recoil and you can watch the feathers fly in the scope. I really don't go through a lot of ammo, since I just snipe with it ,not plink. So ammo cost is nothing since a 50 round box last around 3 months, $13 .It is light to carry and and shoots flat. I like it more than the Marlin in 22 mag I had. Just don't use a 22 scope, it's focal point is at 50 yards which doesn't work well on small targets at 100 yards. A new Savage can be had for $250. Good Luck!

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:30 am

JcJ78 wrote:I have 3 10/22's and I'm seriously knocking around puttin one to .17M2. I already have a AW 77/22 WMR also.

Did that with my Ruger levergun; had a 22 WMR one but found a good deal on another used one, so just swapped the barrel and made myself a 17 HMR levergun...

Before...

After...

If I could find a non-explosive bullet loaded in them, I think head-shots on small game could be non-destructive enough, and the accuracy is sure there.

mikld · Post by **mikld** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:52 am

May sound silly, buy I like ths sound of .17 HMR shot from my Savage. It's more of a gunshot rather than a "CRACK". I stock up when my local big box store has them on sale (about $9.00 per C) and I get both the 20 gr. and the 17 gr. for variety. I haven't determined the most accurate ammo for my rifle yet, but I'll keep on trying. The last time out I found a golf ball on the range and was able to chase it around with my .17 out to mebbe 85 yards, which is pretty good for me. For me, the 17 HMR is more of a shooter than a "plinker" as I'll pace off distances and change paper targets often to see how I'm doing, but even with my .22 Marlin I tend to get off into killing deadly soda cans or empty shotgun shells...

tman · Post by **tman** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:43 pm

Is anything in between the .22LR and .223 REM. really needed

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:09 pm

Well,
I think so.

rbertalotto · Post by **rbertalotto** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:09 pm

[img]Is%20anything%20in%20between%20the%20.22LR%20and%20.223%20REM.%20really%20needed%20[/img]

Only if you want something much more accurate than a 22LR and quieter or you can't use a centerfire where you hunt. The 17HMR is a fantastic round. Huge winner at my Egg Shoots out to 100 yards. But keep that bore clean like a centerfire.........(an unashamed plug...

)

www.rvbprecision.com

harry · Post by **harry** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:13 pm

tman wrote:Is anything in between the .22LR and .223 REM. really needed

Kids

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:20 pm

mikld · Post by **mikld** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:05 pm

tman wrote:Is anything in between the .22LR and .223 REM. really needed

Here we go with that nasty word "need" again. I live in a small town, mebbe 6k residents, there are no gangs roaming the streets. Narry a gunfight at the local saloon either. I get my meat from the grocery store, and no critters roam the night stalking humans. I don't need any gun, but I enjoy my 19 guns from .17 HMR through .223/5.56, 30-30 7.72X39, 7.62X54r, up to .44 Magnum.

Of course there is a need for 17 caliber firearms, very accurate with more bullet choices than .22, but I don't think my fat fingers could hold/load anything smaller

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:06 pm

I would like to see/have a 17 Hornet, though...

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:25 pm

Mescalero wrote:Well,
I think so.

Same here! I love my CZ .22 Magnum and my .222 Rem. Sako. Both will shoot circles around the only .223 I have which is an AR.
I know there's a huge difference between an AR and a quality bolt gun but there darned well is a need!

Like some other's have said, the .17HMR is the only rimfire available around these parts.

jb

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:39 pm

Nice toy. But, too destructive for edible small game. Not enough power, bullet weight and range for anything else. Too many choices in the .22 LR, cheaper and easier to find. Over a 100 yards for anything, the 22 Velicitor has it beat. After that, or anything bigger the 223 Rem. cleans it clock. I guess at close range it , it makes a more impressive wound. As far as accuracy, Too many .22 target loads to compare it to to make that statement. It's a marketing hyped cartridge that really isn't NEEDED. But , If u got one and happy with it. SALUTE

FLINT · Post by **FLINT** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:53 pm

I love my .22WMR and it is definitely way more gun than a .22lr and way quieter than a centerfire .22
I personally think that it is a more flexible cartridge than the .17HMR though.

However, for pest control, I bet the .17 could be a lot of fun.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:20 pm

I have long been a fan of the .22 magnum.
To that end, over the years; I have aquired a number of the 580 Remington actions.
These were the rimfire little brothers of the Rem 788.
Because I have stock making capability and a machine shop, I want to make nice rimfire rifles mostly for vermin shooters.
When I started acumulating, my thoughts were .22 mag.
Then came .17 HMR that will work,
now comes .17 Win. super mag, this will still work.
Should be interesting.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:58 pm

tman wrote:Nice toy. But, too destructive for edible small game. Not enough power, bullet weight and range for anything else. Too many choices in the .22 LR, cheaper and easier to find. Over a 100 yards for anything, the 22 Velicitor has it beat. After that, or anything bigger the 223 Rem. cleans it clock. I guess at close range it , it makes a more impressive wound. As far as accuracy, Too many .22 target loads to compare it to to make that statement. It's a marketing hyped cartridge that really isn't NEEDED. But , If u got one and happy with it. SALUTE

You're missing "El Photo Grande". Keeping shooters interested in "New" technology and new calibers is what the industry is all about.

Case in point, Winchester model 94. Just how many .30-30s can they make without the average Joe getting bored/ "already have one". They were on the cusp of turning out some really cool rifles when the Brass shut them down and have gone to Japan.

Keep the consumer interested, that's how business works.

Do we "need" .17's, 222's, .22 mags? Not really but if you want a new .300 WTF? then yes we do!

jb

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:09 pm

Perhaps the congregation really does not understand vermin,
for those of you in the know, think wild pigs; on a smaller scale.
These things are destuctive, and I; nor anyone else is eating them.
Maximum disruptive results are what is needed.

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:26 pm

Mescalero wrote:Perhaps the congregation really does not understand vermin,
for those of you in the know, think wild pigs; on a smaller scale.
These things are destuctive, and I; nor anyone else is eating them.
Maximum disruptive results are what is needed.

The PERFECT close range rat gun.

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:52 pm

Pros: It shots a .177 caliber .17 grain bullet at 2550 fps

Cons: It shots a .177 caliber .17 grain bullet at 2550 fps

Do I need one? NO

Do I want one? YES

I remember a few years back CDNN was selling Rossi stainless steel single shots in 17HMR for $105.00, wish I grabbed one then.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:07 pm

A limited understanding of exterior ballistics is showing.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:32 pm

I haven't shot one in that caliber but with all the ammo around, i'm considering one. (but I did like mod71alaska's .222 and it shot wonderfully).

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:36 pm

JMHO
Got one its ok!
However weapon of choice as of late for me is either a 20ga shotgun or what I really love now(and its on sale for $259 w/mounted 3x9 scope)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmsKDtCj2rk

Either the .25cal or the .22cal (they wack "small game" extremely well and don't destroy the meat.
The .22 pellet in that cost $8 for 500rds and they all fit in a pocket.Actually within 50yds for coyotes like in the woods calling them in(head shots only now)the .25 in that works too.

Wanna get a surprise??? (I did) Grab some filled gallon water jugs(line them up endways pace off 40-50yds and shoot first with that .17HMR then shoot some with a 43.2 gr .25cal Eun Jin pellet (I mean bullet) in that Hatsan and look at the penetration results also because that gun has a muzzle break (acts like a silencer) and it does not break sound barrier-----------------its extremely quiet!

If its coyotes(not head shots and over 50-60yds) or smaller varmits "past" that ------then the inexpensive .223 handloads get them.

But, sure if you have a fancy for a .17HMR----grab one. (for me that "cool factor" kinda wore off quick where the item above just keeps getting better)

Honestly-----just one gun(if not a 20ga)and don't want to do the air gun deal)----??????

Get a Ruger 10/22 in .22LR

Good luck whatever you choose.

Sigmar · Post by **Sigmar** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:53 pm

tman wrote:Nice toy. But, too destructive for edible small game. Not enough power, bullet weight and range for anything else. Too many choices in the .22 LR, cheaper and easier to find. Over a 100 yards for anything, the 22 Velicitor has it beat. After that, or anything bigger the 223 Rem. cleans it clock. I guess at close range it , it makes a more impressive wound. As far as accuracy, Too many .22 target loads to compare it to to make that statement. It's a marketing hyped cartridge that really isn't NEEDED. But , If u got one and happy with it. SALUTE

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/ ... oadNo=0047

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.17_HMR#Co ... Ammunition

.17 is a thousand fps faster,,your comment doesnt make sense, care to elaborate

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:44 am

Sigmar wrote:
tman wrote:Nice toy. But, too destructive for edible small game. Not enough power, bullet weight and range for anything else. Too many choices in the .22 LR, cheaper and easier to find. Over a 100 yards for anything, the 22 Velicitor has it beat. After that, or anything bigger the 223 Rem. cleans it clock. I guess at close range it , it makes a more impressive wound. As far as accuracy, Too many .22 target loads to compare it to to make that statement. It's a marketing hyped cartridge that really isn't NEEDED. But , If u got one and happy with it. SALUTE
http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/ ... oadNo=0047

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.17_HMR#Co ... Ammunition

.17 is a thousand fps faster,,your comment doesnt make sense, care to elaborate

I'll take a turn. Velocity isn't everything. Compare the two at 150 yards. One is twice the weight of the other.

mikld · Post by **mikld** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:48 am

Folks have posted above about tissue distruction. How many have experienced this with the 17 gr. solids? Not what Uncle Bob's son's friend's aunt said, but seen with your own eyes? I found a motorcycle helmet someone shot up at my local "range". I shot it too, with my 17 HMR and got one tiny hole on one side (in) and one tiny hole on the other side (out), 17 gr. solids, no expansion...

I'm sure no one thought/thinks the .17 HMR is a replacement for the .22 LR, just another new cartridge.

3leggedturtle · Post by **3leggedturtle** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:54 am

MKLD; I have shot the 20gr Gamepoints thru 24oz bottles of water. They still rip and bulge the bottle more than even the CCI Quik-shocks. more than needed on squills or bunnies. I have the FMJ's, but as of yet haven't chronoed them or shot them in any media. Should have my two 17barrels back next week so I can have at it.

tman · Post by **tman** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:31 pm

sore shoulder wrote:
Sigmar wrote:
tman wrote:Nice toy. But, too destructive for edible small game. Not enough power, bullet weight and range for anything else. Too many choices in the .22 LR, cheaper and easier to find. Over a 100 yards for anything, the 22 Velicitor has it beat. After that, or anything bigger the 223 Rem. cleans it clock. I guess at close range it , it makes a more impressive wound. As far as accuracy, Too many .22 target loads to compare it to to make that statement. It's a marketing hyped cartridge that really isn't NEEDED. But , If u got one and happy with it. SALUTE
http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/ ... oadNo=0047

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.17_HMR#Co ... Ammunition

.17 is a thousand fps faster,,your comment doesnt make sense, care to elaborate
I'll take a turn. Velocity isn't everything. Compare the two at 150 yards. One is twice the weight of the other.

Thank you, I'm sure you can push a .12 LR with a 9 grain bullet even faster, if such a thing existed

, but, what the hell good would it be

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:55 pm

Now that would be useless as mammary glands on a rake handle.

harry · Post by **harry** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:05 pm

tman wrote:
sore shoulder wrote:
Sigmar wrote:
tman wrote:Nice toy. But, too destructive for edible small game. Not enough power, bullet weight and range for anything else. Too many choices in the .22 LR, cheaper and easier to find. Over a 100 yards for anything, the 22 Velicitor has it beat. After that, or anything bigger the 223 Rem. cleans it clock. I guess at close range it , it makes a more impressive wound. As far as accuracy, Too many .22 target loads to compare it to to make that statement. It's a marketing hyped cartridge that really isn't NEEDED. But , If u got one and happy with it. SALUTE
http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/ ... oadNo=0047

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.17_HMR#Co ... Ammunition

.17 is a thousand fps faster,,your comment doesnt make sense, care to elaborate
I'll take a turn. Velocity isn't everything. Compare the two at 150 yards. One is twice the weight of the other.
Thank you, I'm sure you can push a .12 LR with a 9 grain bullet even faster, if such a thing existed , but, what the hell good would it be

Ask and ye shall receive"
http://shop.reedsammo.com/category.sc?categoryId=183

tman · Post by **tman** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:26 pm

The world has passed me by

tman · Post by **tman** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:40 pm

I see the light! But, I'm gonna hold out for a .06LR with a 2 grain bullet pushed at 3995 FPS. The perfect choice to swat killer mosquitos this summer. In the mean time, perhaps somebody will finally come out with a .913 pushing a 775 grain bullet at 2654 fps. T Rex is off the endangered species list.

harry · Post by **harry** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:58 pm

tman wrote:I see the light! But, I'm gonna hold out for a .06LR with a 2 grain bullet pushed at 3995 FPS. The perfect choice to swat killer mosquitos this summer. In the mean time, perhaps somebody will finally come out with a .913 pushing a 775 grain bullet at 2654 fps. T Rex is off the endangered species list.

Bottom of the page, lower right
http://sskindustries.com/cartridges

J35 · Post by **J35** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:55 pm

I must be a Dinosaur, my 22 Hornet works pretty good from subsonic to 2700 fps .

Subsonic to 2000fps for .03 a pop.

----J

rbertalotto · Post by **rbertalotto** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:34 am

The new Winchester 17 that is soon to released should be a 20 caliber........Perfect fit between 17HMR and 22Magnum

nemhed · Post by **nemhed** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:53 am

Let's remember, if we all stuck with what we "needed" the civilian firearms industry would have died out a long time ago. Think about it, a well made rifle should last several lifetimes and could be passed down from generation to generation. That being said, the 17hmr fills a niche and has sold a lot of rifles in this country. I love my H&R handi-rifle in 17 HMR. It shoots like a laser beam and it's accuracy is so ridiculously out of proportion to it's $200 price tag that it absolutely blows my mind. There are plenty of purposes and situations where I can't or won't shoot one of my centerfires, but the 17hmr fills the bill with it's low noise signature and nearly zero ricochet potential. Yes, the ammo is expensive and I can reload .223 for less, but with no muss or fuss I can buy factory ammo at the local store that I know will be accurate.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:02 am

nemhed,
That is my reasoning as well, the vermin come in close to the houses; a centerfire shot is far more disturbing than a rimfire.

mikld · Post by **mikld** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:30 am

I'll toss another idea into the discussion; I like to reload my .223 with cast 45 gr. bullets over loads of WC820 and/or Unique. A bit more than a 22 lr., mebbe less than a .22 Magnum, and a lot less than a .223 an much quieter too. Not a rimfire, not "needed" as there are other cartridges that fit there nicely, but, I have the stuff and it's a heck of a lot of fun...

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:32 am

mikld,
Can you elaborate?

Sigmar · Post by **Sigmar** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:39 pm

boy y'all dont make it easy to decide lol. 22LR or .17 grrrrrrr

nemhed · Post by **nemhed** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:34 pm

Sigmar wrote:boy y'all dont make it easy to decide lol. 22LR or .17 grrrrrrr

Not an "either or" proposition, but you have to have a 22lr first, then get a 17 hmr. Although I do admit sometimes when I'm shooting my 17 I think "now why do I need a 22lr?". 22lr is just too cheap and too much fun not to have several guns that shoot it.

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:18 pm

nemhed wrote:Let's remember, if we all stuck with what we "needed" the civilian firearms industry would have died out a long time ago.

Good and valid point. In reality there are very few gun/cartridge combo's that WE really need and many cartridges would of died a much faster death or never been created if we all thought only on that level.

I'm not a fan of the current rimfire magnums. I've tried and tried but never been able to get them to do what I need. But I can say with 100% honesty that I believe the HMR has more advantages than the .22M. The extra 50 yards of the .22m over the .22lr has limited value for me, I'm either in the woods or in the middle of a 600 acre plowed field. In one case I don't need the extra, in the other it's not enough. The HMR is completely different from the .22lr so while it's give and take it does offer some advantages. None of which apply when critters get larger, hence my problem with the little .17.

The new Winchester 17 that is soon to released should be a 20 caliber........Perfect fit between 17HMR and 22Magnum

I didn't see the point for 20's with the 5mm, didn't see it with the .204's and don't see it with the new rimfire either. 20's seem like an attempt at a "jack of all trades master of none" and they have never panned out that well. I can see the new WSM in .17's for the flatter trajectory, I "could" see in in a .224 for added thump, but in a .20? Blah.

kmittleman · Post by **kmittleman** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:52 am

I had a Savage 93 for a while but ending up selling it to buy a CZ 452 in .22 lr. Here are the pros / cons.

Pro's

Extremely Accurate
More powerful than a .22

Con's

Too heavy / awkward with the bull barrel for squirrel hunting
I can reload centerfire ammo for the same price as .17 hmr ammo
The legality of hunting with the .17 hmr is questionable in my area
Too destructive for squirrel hunting

In the end, I found that my CZ .22 was just as accurate as the .17 so the .17 was just pointless.

-Kevin

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:02 am

Well, my two cents worth. I had one (the Savage heavy barrel) when I lived in a windy area and it was worthless. Honestly. I became annoyed quickly with how fast the thing lost accuracy to fouling and with a shot at 50+yds and a 15 kt wind, it was unpredictable.

I sold it and got a 22 WMR, and am happy I did. It's not quite as zippy as the 17 but I have shot probably 150 ground squirrels with it at ranges from 10yds to about 175, most all of them with the 30gr "green" ammo, but some with 40gr lead. It has not disappointed me yet.

Went out about a week ago to thin the herd for a friends ranch and the wind was gusting making it tricky, but the difference was once I doped the wind properly it was consistent and deadly. In addition, I can shoot 50-60 rounds with no appreciable loss in accuracy, no way would my 17 go that long.

In my opinion, there is a good reason there is still 17 HMR on the shelves, it's not as desirable when the chips are down.

Like I said, just my two cents worth.