Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

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twobit
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Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#1 Post by twobit » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:22 pm

Hello to all,

I have decided to begin cataloging the caliber and barrel configurations of for the entire the Model 61 production run. While chewing off a small, certain unique style may be easier it ends up letting too much good and usefull data go past you in the hope of somebody else getting it. I may as well enter it while I have it on the computer screen.

Sooooo.... Open up the safes and please send me the serial number, caliber stamp information for the rifle and the barrel shape style. No photos are necessary for this, just a simple list will do. You can either PM me or send to my email at 2bitrifles@gmail.com Hopefully, this work will shed a tiny bit of light on the overall production percentages of the Model 61 and make a small compliment to the work done in Schwing's book.

I put my dozen rifles on the list and picked up 43 more last night just looking on Gunbroker and GI. There are lots of past auctions to go back and dig into also.

Wish me luck
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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#2 Post by pwl44m » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:59 pm

Good Luck.!
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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#3 Post by BlaineG » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:05 pm

If I had one, I don't think I'd send serial numbers :wink: Good luck with your project, though. :)
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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#4 Post by gamekeeper » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:17 pm

My local dealer has one for sale, I'll check it out.
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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#5 Post by Hobie » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:04 pm

Doesn't have to be yours, just send in the info on the ones you know. No attribution of ownership need be kept.
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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#6 Post by jdad » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:50 pm

Delete
Last edited by jdad on Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#7 Post by Booger Bill » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:09 pm

Here ya go! This one is a octogon barrel serial # 21738. It is .22 LR. I belive dad bought it in 1937. Dad was 6ft 5"s he put a simple block of wood or recoil pads on all his long guns. Thats why this one has that ugly block of wood. I am big myself and it fits perfect.
My dad was a hell of a shot with it. I have seen him hit flying black birds with it once or twice. One time we were at a turkey shoot. I looked around and seen bolts with scopes. While this was just a bunch of farmers I exspressed my concern to dad. He just said, well they still have to hold em. Dad stepped up and won the turkey! That was 60 years ago but still a good memory of dad. He died at 90 almost 10 years ago.

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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#8 Post by twobit » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:58 am

Hello Booger Bill,

I love the story!! The gun and the photo are priceless.
Your rifle was serialized during the first few days of Feb 1937.
I appreciate the support. I just need a few thousand more rifles and
we will have it all figured out. If anybody has a Model 1892/92 I am doing
the same effort with that Model. I have 4056 rifles so far in it!
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... ey#p343093

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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#9 Post by twobit » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:13 pm

SHASTA,

Thanks for the email and the photos of the gun. As you said, too bad somebody D&T the receiver.
But on the bright side you got a darn good and inexpensive shooter. Your rifle was serialized during
August of 1937. It was probably fully assembled and out the door within a month or so.

I now have just over 730 rifles in the survey!

Thanks so much for the help.
Michael
Last edited by twobit on Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#10 Post by gamekeeper » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:18 pm

PM sent as promised.
While I was looking at my dealers mod 61 I also looked at his first year of production mod 90 and his old 06 with a stainless steel barrel.
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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#11 Post by Shasta » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:42 pm

For those interested, here is a pic of the barrel markings on my 1937 Model 61 mentioned above by twobit. White chalk was rubbed into the lettering to make it stand out:

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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#12 Post by twobit » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:40 pm

Nice job with the photo!

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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#13 Post by Shasta » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:39 am

We try! :D

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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#14 Post by Sixgun » Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:44 am

I USED to have serial number 16. It was standard in every respect for a pre-war 61. Sold it to a guy in Iowa------------Sixgun
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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#15 Post by twobit » Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:00 am

Number 16!!!??? That would have been a nice gun to have around.
That is the lowest number for the survey right now. The next is 27
then 112.

Very cool.
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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#16 Post by Sixgun » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:35 pm

twobit wrote:Number 16!!!??? That would have been a nice gun to have around.
That is the lowest number for the survey right now. The next is 27
then 112.

Very cool.
Thanks
Yea, sometimes things have to go. The gun was very nice, almost unshootable, and then came the $2,800 offer. Bye :D ----------------Sixgun
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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#17 Post by twobit » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:06 pm

Sixgun wrote:
and then came the $2,800 offer.
Yeah, things like that tend to get your attention!!

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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#18 Post by twobit » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:33 am

This survey is turning into an expensive project!!! I was just minding my own business trying to
harmlessly collect data when these three rifles came up for auction. I did not have a round barrel
short variation in my collection, nor a shot only counterbore rifle. Well now I do. In fact two counterbores
since I figured just the one would be lonely. More, and better pics to follow after they arrive.

.22Short Only Round Barrel
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.22 Long Rifle -For Shot Only-
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.22 Long Rifle -For Shot Only-
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Please keep the information on your rifles coming so that I can enter it into my work.
I apreciate all the help.
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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#19 Post by twobit » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:32 pm

Hello all,

I have been at this Model 61 survey for just over a year now and have catalogued exactly 1900
rifles as of this afternoon. Thanks to the many collectors and shooter who have contacted me with
information regarding their rifles. I did a bit of work and posted some interim results on the Rimfire Central
forum a couple weeks ago. You can take a look at the information there via this link. And if any body has
one of these rifles please do contact me and I will be happy to add it to my research and answer any questions
which you might have regarding the rifle. My email is at the top of this posting.
Model 61 Interim Results
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/sh ... p?t=534703

Thanks again
Michael
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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#20 Post by jdad » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:39 am

I have a 1958 "grooved top" being listed by Jack the Dog, in a few weeks. Keep a watch and you can get your info.
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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#21 Post by twobit » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:43 pm

jdad wrote:I have a 1958 "grooved top" being listed by Jack the Dog, in a few weeks. Keep a watch and you can get your info.
I will do that for sure. Thanks for the heads up. He usually lists on Auction Arms if I recall. And does a great job representing the rifles.

Thanks
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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#22 Post by jdad » Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:26 pm

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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#23 Post by twobit » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:54 pm

Thanks! Yes I had both of those rifles in the survey already. It is toooooooo bad the octagon barrel LR rifle
was drilled and tapped on the barrel.

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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#24 Post by twobit » Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:07 pm

Hello,

It has been almost a year since I updated my work on this forum. I am still hard at it and have added 800 rifles in the pat 11 months.
There is a link below to the Interim Results so far. and another link to a photo rich reference guide to what exactly I am looking for. It
is posted on the Winchester Collectors forum or via the second link. It does not matter if your rifle is 100% or looks like it spent it's life
in the bed of a pick up truck. Add it in and ask any questions you might have. I will be glad to answer.
Model 61 Interim Results
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/sh ... p?t=534703
Reference Material
http://winchestercollector.org/forum/wi ... ch-survey/

Thanks
Michael
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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#25 Post by Shasta » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:21 pm

twobit,

Here is another Winchester Model 61 for your survey-

Serial number 264123. There is not a letter "W" stamped below serial number.
Round barrel marked .22 S L OR L.R.
Not drilled & tapped for a tang sight.
Butt plate is plastic.
Receiver is grooved for scope mount.


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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#26 Post by twobit » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:31 pm

Thanks so much Shasta. I greatly appreciate it. I am almost up to 2700 rifles!

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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#27 Post by crs » Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:02 pm

What Blaine said +1
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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#28 Post by twobit » Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:55 pm

crs wrote:What Blaine said +1
That is too bad because if everyone thought that way there would be very little factual information that collectors could use to
then make smart, rational decisions about which rifles to purchase. Between my work on the Model 61 and also my work
on the Model 1892 rifles I have serial number data on almost 10,000 rifles and the world has not ground to a halt nor has anyone
lost or had had their rifle confiscated by the "gun police." In addition, I know of a few other researchers who have collected information
on more than 20,000 various rifles and shotguns with no dire consequences. If you were to buy James Gordon's fantastic books on the
Winchester Model 1873 rifles you would find out he surveyed more than 3500 rifles in his efforts to produce the book. In Ned
Schwing's two volume set of books on the slide action .22 caliber rifles produced by Winchester there are a few hundred photos and serial
numbers of rifles. I have never seen of a complaint that some ill fate fell upon the owner of any of those rifles. But there are always those
who have a fear of something which is based on no knowledge or basis or "I heard of a guy who knew a guy who had a neighbor" etc.. etc..
Thankfully for the rest of us who deal in reality there are those who are willing to help.

Michael
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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#29 Post by Shasta » Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:28 pm

By reporting a rifle for Michael's survey, you are not necessarily claiming ownership, just reporting on a rifle you know of, or perhaps saw at a local shop. After all, these are not EBRs! :D

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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#30 Post by twobit » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:59 pm

It has been almost 5 years now since I started working on this research project. In that time I have now collected data on just over 5,600 individual rifles (1.6% of the total production) from all over the world. I can not say thank you enough to all who have helped and gladly given information on either their own collected guns or who have taken a few minutes while at a gun show to jot down sown some data and then pass it along to me. I think that with another couple thousand guns my collected data and the results from that will be accurate and then I will write a small book discussing the results.

An additional outcome of all this work has been to identify known fake rifles and make them aware to collectors. You read about that effort here: https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/s ... ?t=1106233
or here: https://winchestercollector.org/forum/w ... e-listing/

If anyone has one or two or more of these fine little rifle, regardless of condition I would love to hear from you and add your rifle into the database. I am more than happy to answer any questions you might have and give an approximate valuation of your rifle.

All the best and Merry Christmas
Michael
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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#31 Post by Sixgun » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:39 pm

twobit wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:59 pm
It has been almost 5 years now since I started working on this research project. In that time I have now collected data on just over 5,600 individual rifles (1.6% of the total production) from all over the world. I can not say thank you enough to all who have helped and gladly given information on either their own collected guns or who have taken a few minutes while at a gun show to jot down sown some data and then pass it along to me. I think that with another couple thousand guns my collected data and the results from that will be accurate and then I will write a small book discussing the results.

An additional outcome of all this work has been to identify known fake rifles and make them aware to collectors. You read about that effort here: https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/s ... d.php?t=<a href="tel:1106233">1106233</a>
or here: https://winchestercollector.org/forum/w ... e-listing/



All the best and Merry Christmas
Michael
Two Bit....I snagged this a couple of years ago years ago....transitional....rust blue, d&t for tang sight but with the larger post war forearm. Most likely a receiver built before the war and then put together after

It's 98% er and the number is 59794. Whew! This shoots like a 52.----6

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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#32 Post by twobit » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:41 am

Good morning Sixgun,

Thanks so much for adding your rifle into the survey. It is a 1941 vintage rifle and is correct for its SN range. The change from the short to long slide handle occurred around SN 44,000 and the tang was S&T for another 9000 rifles after yours. Any chance that there is a "W" stamped a couple inches below the serial number near the trigger guard? I do agree that these little gems are fine shooting rifles.

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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#33 Post by Sixgun » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:24 pm

twobit wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:41 am
Good morning Sixgun,

Thanks so much for adding your rifle into the survey. It is a 1941 vintage rifle and is correct for its SN range. The change from the short to long slide handle occurred around SN 44,000 and the tang was S&T for another 9000 rifles after yours. Any chance that there is a "W" stamped a couple inches below the serial number near the trigger guard? I do agree that these little gems are fine shooting rifles.

Michael
Michael,
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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#34 Post by twobit » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:16 am

Thanks for checking for me Sixgun. It is at the end of the range when the rifles were marked that way.

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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#35 Post by model55 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:08 pm

Local LGS has one on the used rack for $900.00 USD ( Bridge's sportsmen center ) very nice condition. appears to be tapped for a peep and they claim to have the original box .http://www.bridgesportsmen.com/UsedGuns ... ain_Page=1 I'll check the serial number when I get a chance to go back in there.

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Re: Winchester Model 61 Production Survey

#36 Post by twobit » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:39 am

model55 wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:08 pm
Local LGS has one on the used rack for $900.00 USD ( Bridge's sportsmen center ) very nice condition. appears to be tapped for a peep and they claim to have the original box .http://www.bridgesportsmen.com/UsedGuns ... ain_Page=1 I'll check the serial number when I get a chance to go back in there.
Thanks so much. Yes, I will definitely need the serial number of the rifle to add it into my data. If it is real and in nice condition that is not a bad price . You might want to have your check book with you.

Merry Christmas
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