T/C Contender help needed

[3leggedturtle]

I can afford 1 more barrel for the next 6 months. Am stuck in a LOOP. Down to 2 choices. 25/223 or 9mm. Have plenty of .25 caliber bullets and 9mm pills too. It will be a carbine barrel. Dies arn't a problem. Have lots of brass to use for each. 9mm is more economical. 25/223 comes close to "original" 250 Savage ballistics. Both can use "mouse fanny burp" loads for small edible game. Last time this happened, I was stuck between 44mag and 45acp. After 5 months of weighing pros and cons; the 45acp won out. What would; you all say or think, any and all opinions wanted. 3leg

[Hobie]

WHY do you have a Contender? I ask that because that is central to your choice. I have 21 barrels, mostly to try things out with minimal investment.

[3leggedturtle]

Hobie, I have 8 carbine barrels and 9 pistol barrels. I have a Contender so whenever I take shooting trip I can have every "base" covered.A carbine with 2-3 extra barrels gives me variety with very little extra baggage.

[Hobie]

Ah, I see. So I can't answer the question without knowing what base you want to cover with each, very different, cartridge.

[3leggedturtle]

Ah, I see. So I can't answer the question without knowing what base you want to cover with each, very different, cartridge.

Here's carbine barrels I have: 24" bull in 30/30 and 256WM, 24" taper in 38special, 21" taper in 22LR, 22Mag and 223AI. 18" bull in 45acp, 17"bull in 45/70. 256 is awesome with 75grHP's, 87gr's go in to deep for any real velocity. Figured the 25/223 would do 27-2800fps with 87grs, for a varmint to lite deer load. Use the RP 86gr FP's for lite small game loads. 9mm could be great for small game and plinking load. Sorta a bigger 22LR. Use everything from roundballs to147gr flat points. carry Lots of ammo in small space. 9mm is fun to shoot rocks and dirts clods in the fields up north.. That where I am at, ould sell my 25/20 and buy both barrels but aint gonna do that. Like I said I am stuck in this loop

[Hobie]

Hmmm... Of the two, I'd like the 9mm better for you. It can use all that 9mm ammo out there. IME, though, one ends up not loading most of the gee-whiz loads one could but usually settle on 2 at most. The .25/223 isn't all that. While the wildcats on the .223 case are all interesting, they don't seem to live up to the velocity hype I've heard. Nice accurate cartridges of adequate ballistic ability on cheap brass, but they aren't all that.

[AJMD429]

It would be kinda fun just to have a super-accurate 9mm carbine, since for most folks, the 9mm is viewed as just a short-range self-defense or Uzi-spray round.

[Steelbanger]

Regarding the 9mm. I had a friend back in the day that owned a 9mm barrel, 10" bull. No matter what powder he used the cases wouldn't obturate and there was always blowback around the case. No harm done but getting that soot in the action was a real pain. I never had that problem when I had a 45 ACP barrel.

Hey Hobie, I have a question for you. Can you top one of my 30-30 carbine barrels in the variety of game it killed? My 30-30 has taken squirrels and turkey with cast bullets, a bear in Canada and deer with jacketed. Unfortunately we can't hunt small game with anything but rimfires now so those squirrel days are done.

[GoatGuy]

....The .25/223 isn't all that. While the wildcats on the .223 case are all interesting, they don't seem to live up to the velocity hype I've heard. Nice accurate cartridges of adequate ballistic ability on cheap brass, but they aren't all that.

I have a good friend out in NM who is quite fond of the 6mm/.223. Claims it is the "bee's knees" for coyotes. Easy to load, lots of bullet choices, quite accurate and a super step up from standard .223. Has his in a customized Mini 14 with a fine scope and it's really accurate in his rifle. He's relegated his 220 swift, 22-250 and others of that ilk to the back of his gun safe in favor of the set-up. Could be because of the handy launcher he had made. Don't know that for sure, but he's sure sold on that cartridge.

[Hobie]

....The .25/223 isn't all that. While the wildcats on the .223 case are all interesting, they don't seem to live up to the velocity hype I've heard. Nice accurate cartridges of adequate ballistic ability on cheap brass, but they aren't all that.

I have a good friend out in NM who is quite fond of the 6mm/.223. Claims it is the "bee's knees" for coyotes. Easy to load, lots of bullet choices, quite accurate and a super step up from standard .223. Has his in a customized Mini 14 with a fine scope and it's really accurate in his rifle. He's relegated his 220 swift, 22-250 and others of that ilk to the back of his gun safe in favor of the set-up. Could be because of the handy launcher he had made. Don't know that for sure, but he's sure sold on that cartridge.

Oh, yes, these cartridges are just the ticket for such a use. I have a 7mm TCU and while it will kill deer and is light recoiling, it is just the ticket for such as coyotes. these cartridges are more like the .25-35 than the .250 Savage.

[earlmck]

Figured the 25/223 would do 27-2800fps with 87grs, for a varmint to lite deer load.

Yes, that's about what you'd get. And I vote for the 25/223 (having trouble seeing what you'd get from the 9mm that you don't already have covered with the 38 spcl). I've had virtually that cartridge for 40 years (25/222mag). My main varmint bullet is the 75 grain Hornady H.P. but I've never chronod them. The only loads I've ever chronographed were some I shot last summer with the 90 grain Sierra H.P. which I figured would make a good deer bullet in this rifle. Best accuracy was with 27 grains of "Varmint" for 2650 fps and 27.8 grains gave 2750 fps but not quite as fine accuracy. 28.5 grains gave 2850 but a little sticky bolt-lift so I called the 27.8 my max load.

And by the way, that's the same bullet I like in my 20" barreled 250 Savage at 2900 fps. So the little 25 isn't quite a 250/3000 but doesn't give up a whole lot...

[3leggedturtle]

Earl; thats what I like to hear. What made you build that caliber 40 years ago? I have ben using the Hornady 75gr HP and 87 gr SPP, in a 250 Savage, and have noticed that the 75grHP is lot more toughly constructed than the 87grSPP. What action did build your 25/222Mag on?

[Hobie]

Regarding the 9mm. I had a friend back in the day that owned a 9mm barrel, 10" bull. No matter what powder he used the cases wouldn't obturate and there was always blowback around the case. No harm done but getting that soot in the action was a real pain. I never had that problem when I had a 45 ACP barrel.

Hey Hobie, I have a question for you. Can you top one of my 30-30 carbine barrels in the variety of game it killed? My 30-30 has taken squirrels and turkey with cast bullets, a bear in Canada and deer with jacketed. Unfortunately we can't hunt small game with anything but rimfires now so those squirrel days are done.

Nope, can't beat your variety! No bear (won't hunt them) and never a turkey. One squirrel. Too dang many other guns want to go hunting!

[earlmck]

Earl; thats what I like to hear. What made you build that caliber 40 years ago? I have ben using the Hornady 75gr HP and 87 gr SPP, in a 250 Savage, and have noticed that the 75grHP is lot more toughly constructed than the 87grSPP. What action did build your 25/222Mag on?

Had this nifty little Sako Vixen action I'd ordered from Herter's while I was stationed in Danang. (I just wanted a productive project to work on in between shifts and thought I'd start building on a rifle -- maybe not my smartest choice considering...) GCA of '68 had happened while I was overseas, action got hung up in San Francisco until I got home and could retrieve it. (Yep, the stock and hardware got a tour of SE Asia but I didn't have anything to put into it )

Life happened and 6 years later I was in Winnemucca, Nevada and a nice gunsmith there put the 25 caliber barrel on. We had talked this over and thought we'd have an "almost 250 Savage" in a cute little package. I've shot a fair number of cast bullets with it, for which the longer neck of the 222mag is nice, but otherwise the 223 case would make lots more sense. Never killed anything larger than a jack rabbit with it, but I may yet do that, since it seems to shoot these 90 grain Sierras real well, and they are built as a game bullet. It is a fun and efficient cartridge, which is why I recommended it.

[3leggedturtle]

Those are nice little actions. Couldnt afford them back then, and now when I do find them they usually $600 or more. Wish I had saved a few of my Herters Catalogs. They really had some nice stuff back then.

[Rusty]

I spent many an hour on my elbows looking at my uncles Herter's catalogs. Until I got old enough to place my own orders. They sold me my first reloading outfit.

The 25/223 sounds most useful to me. The .38 will do everything the 9 mm will do.

That said I'll bet that .38 could be turned into a dandy .357 Max for nothing more than the cost of a reamer rental.

[3leggedturtle]

Rusty, that was my original thoughts too, sorta!! I had heard that T/C custom shop barrels were hit and miss as far as accuracy was concerned. I figured if this barrel wasnt too accurate it would be turned into a 35-30/30. But using R-P 125gr Golden Sabre HP's it was good or 1" groups at 100 yards. Even at 200 yards 3" groups were real common. Even got a 2.25" group once, but never could hold that steady again. It holds and hangs real nice for carrying and shooting offhand. The 9mm will be a companion to my P95. I have as much 9mm brass, as I do 38 brass.