I quit procrastinating and ordered a "Black" rifle

[jdad]

After getting all the pro & con opinions, from everyone here, I figured I was ready. I had my funds, found a couple of pretty good deals, and decided the time was right.

I put a deposit down, on the new version S&W M&P15T. $1009 out-the-door. Ordered a Burris AR332, from Midway, using a $35 discount code it came to $324 delivered and found an old 500ct case of Federal AE 223, for $170. I guess it was just my turn for some good Kharma.

I should be recouped enough, to shoot, by Independence Day.....if I have the rifle. I'm scheduled April 19, for shoulder surgery, so I have no problem with S&W's 3-4 month backlog. Heck, I haven't even been able to hold a rifle since October.

[Streetstar]

Cool Black rifles are a lot of plinking fun sometimes when the mood is right ! Hope the S&W treats you right--- they are pretty highly regarded by a lot of the "AR people"


On a sidenote --- if i order a model 94 Black Shadow in 444 Marlin with the composite stock, wouldnt that be considered a "black rifle" then too? just thinking out loud

[Mescalero]

Yes,
but then you would have a black rifle
to be truly despised, you have to have a
" evil black rifle "

[Rusty]

Yep, I'm about ready to take a trip down to the corner store myself.

[DarryH]

Been to the "black rifle" store too many times already.
I once had a very large collection of black guns.
Steys, SIG, Colt, FN, HK, etc.
Got to looking at them and realized, that I was just
about the only one shooting any of these.
Yes, I was having fun.....but..... the call of wood and steel
was stong in my heart.
I sold off EVERY one of these plastic and sheet metal monstrosities,
and spent the funds on my first loves, guns made during WWII, and back to the
flintlock days. I love LONG rifles, and appreciate short rifles.
I finally added a few various carbines too.
And then what happens................................
the "assult rifle" ban !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I sort of lost THOUSANDS of dollars by parting with my black guns 6 months too soon!!!!!!
Now I own multiple modern self defense tools.
I even bought a couple AK's, just to pee off a Democrat or two!!!
Now days I find a lot of folks shooting both the old guns and the new guns.
The gun club I belong to strongly supports them all.
Now....I feel like I should go to the gun shop and pick up another new toy.
Wood and steel or plastic and sheet metal......who knows?
I will buy what I like when the price is right.

Have fun with your S&W. You will love it.
Weight it right away, and a year later see if it hasn't gained 3-4 pounds of mounted accessories!!!!!!!!

[Pitchy]

Grats, have fun and get better soon.

[Sixgun]

Smart move. The more of us with black guns will be harder for the feds to mess with us. The 'Smith 15 is a great gun. My buddy sells 'em by the truckload, along with the Colts. Customer satisfaction is near 100% as he gets hardly any of 'em back with issues--------------Sixgun

[Rusty]

Well dang, just looked at the S&W line up. All the 16" barrels have that 1:8 twist. they only shoot the heavy bullets well.

I guess I'll need to stay with a bushy.

[olyinaz]

Good choice! You will enjoy that setup.

Oly

[rodeo kid]

Good job, as Hobie always says, everyone needs an AR. God Bless.

[ceb]

Found my black rifle today! Bought a Colt M4 SP6920MP, the Magpul version. Been looking for this exact model for a couple of months and finally found this one at a local gun show. 24hr wait here in Illinois, pick it up tomorrow afternoon.

Now, need to find ammo, mags, red dot and.....................................Oh, this is all Hobies fault!!

[wilko]

Well dang, just looked at the S&W line up. All the 16" barrels have that 1:8 twist. they only shoot the heavy bullets well.

I guess I'll need to stay with a bushy.

Not really... Mine shoots the lighter bullets very accurately.

[COSteve]

Black rifles are a lot of fun to shoot and set up to fit you're particular idea of the perfect setup. I've never been one to leave well enough alone, so one of my 'Black Rifles' is not what most people would think of.

[madman4570]

Awesome!
A great setup!
You will be good to go.
Congrats and an early Prayers up on your upcoming surgery!
God Bless

[damienph]

Well dang, just looked at the S&W line up. All the 16" barrels have that 1:8 twist. they only shoot the heavy bullets well.

I guess I'll need to stay with a bushy.

Not really... Mine shoots the lighter bullets very accurately.

I would try the lighter bullets, I think that you might be surprised.

I don't remember where I read this but I wrote it down in my AR Manual;

1/7 twist: 55-90gr bullets
1/8 twist: 50-85gr bullets
1/9 twist: 45-62gr bullets

Both of my ARs (16" Bushmaster A2 & 24" DPMS Varminter) are 1/9 twist and will definitely shoot 50 and 55 gr bullets well. My 24" DPMS shoots Hornady 75gr BTHPs under 3/4" at 100 yards and will shoot Hornady 55gr Spire Points (#2265), 55gr FMJ-BTs (#2267) and Nosler 55gr Ballistic Tips under 3/8", consistantly at 100 yards. Just saying - don't give up on the 1/8 twist, it will probably surprise you.

[Tycer]

Black rifles are a lot of fun to shoot and set up to fit you're particular idea of the perfect setup. I've never been one to leave well enough alone, so one of my 'Black Rifles' is not what most people would think of.

Is that a Tasco EXP ?

[Rusty]

Steve, I really like that wood furniture. Does the rifle shoot any different with that on there? Where did you get it?

Thanks

[toby]

My son-in-law has the S&W, it puts the bullets where they need to be. He hasn't had any problems with it. But when we go shoot, I like the original look. Mine is a clone of the Colt 604 model I built using all old Colt parts except for the lower receiver. Lower rec. is a modified Rock River Arms. My rifle has the 1 in 12 twist barrel and likes 55gr. bullets. Also, you check out Ironwood Designs for wood furniture for Ars.

[Old Time Hunter]

Cool Black rifles are a lot of plinking fun sometimes when the mood is right ! Hope the S&W treats you right--- they are pretty highly regarded by a lot of the "AR people"


On a sidenote --- if i order a model 94 Black Shadow in 444 Marlin with the composite stock, wouldnt that be considered a "black rifle" then too? just thinking out loud

Yes

[awp101]

I'm scheduled April 19, for shoulder surgery, so I have no problem with S&W's 3-4 month backlog. Heck, I haven't even been able to hold a rifle since October.

Prayers up for your shoulder and a .22 LR conversion from CMMG or Black Dog might be a good way to work back into shooting while getting familiar with the new goodie.

[COSteve]

I would try the lighter bullets, I think that you might be surprised.

I don't remember where I read this but I wrote it down in my AR Manual;

1/7 twist: 55-90gr bullets
1/8 twist: 50-85gr bullets
1/9 twist: 45-62gr bullets

Both of my ARs (16" Bushmaster A2 & 24" DPMS Varminter) are 1/9 twist and will definitely shoot 50 and 55 gr bullets well. My 24" DPMS shoots Hornady 75gr BTHPs under 3/4" at 100 yards and will shoot Hornady 55gr Spire Points (#2265), 55gr FMJ-BTs (#2267) and Nosler 55gr Ballistic Tips under 3/8", consistantly at 100 yards. Just saying - don't give up on the 1/8 twist, it will probably surprise you.

Your bullet weights for the 1:9 twist are overly restrictive at both ends. The 1:9 also shoots 40grn bullets very well too. Both my RRAs are 1:9 twist and also shoot 68grn Hornady and 69grn Sierra bullets extremely well. My son's Savage bolt gun with a 1:9 twist also loves the 68grn Hornadys I load for my 20" AR and he gets nice 5/8" groups with it at 100 yds (young eyes and body). Further, you yourself said your DPMS with a 1:9 shoots Hornady 75grn BTHPs at under 3/4" at 100 yds so that bullet will work too, however, I had heard that some 1:9 barrels won't quite stabilize it reliably which is why I only shoot the 68grn Hornadys in my scoped 20" AR and have good results out to 400 yds with it. So, the range for the 1:9 is more properly 40-69grns with likely 75grn BTHPs (as these can be loaded at magazine lengths) and most 1:9 barrels will stabilize them.

[COSteve]

Steve, I really like that wood furniture. Does the rifle shoot any different with that on there? Where did you get it?

Thanks

Thanks. Yes, as they are a bit heavier than stock and I like that because they make the rifle feel more solid for shooting longer ranges, primarily 300-400+ yds. I looked for years for some and then found that RRA had a few sets they were selling for $150 for buttstock, handguard, and grip. The stocks come finished and ready to slip on and mine fit perfectly without any need for trimming, shimming, or fitting. The buttstock has a rubber buttpad that's helpful keeping the stock from slipping on your shoulder, however, it doesn't have a compartment for oiler or cleaning set.

As you can see, the buttstock has ambidextrous small check rests. My understanding is that they were needed to ensure that the wood wasn't too thin in that area but they do work well as cheek rests with my scope. I don't see them listed currently on RRA's site but it's worth a call as they might have a set or two lying around.

For the pistol grip, I used my own custom grip I'd made some years before when I was looking for a wood set. It's got an extended backstrap, much like the custom grip I made for my middy. Plus, I added a nice thumb platform to really help get a solid grip on things. The pistol grip the wood set comes with is more a standard A2 setup with slight finger swells. It's fine but I like a bigger grip with a considerably heavier backstrap to lengthen the backstrap to trigger length because of my longer fingers.

It's my understanding that AR15Wood.com makes the sets for Brownells (below) and the sets RRA sold, including mine. I think you can get them directly and still get the straight grained version if that's what you want. You might want to check them out first as they can make you pretty much what you want. As I said, the stock sets were ready to go and even come with a rear sling swivel stud and removable swivel included.

Brownells has fancy wood stock sets listed for both the rifle and carbine at $190-$300 HERE. Note that they have both laminate and walnut sets but use a much fancier grade of walnut than my set; hence the higher price. I wanted a straight grain set for a more consistent look with my M1 Carbine and M14 so that's why I got the plainer looking stock set.

Ironwood Designs is also finally making AR15 stock sets. I talked to him some 5 years ago and then 2 yrs ago he was "working on it" but didn't have them ready at the time I found my set.

[damienph]

I would try the lighter bullets, I think that you might be surprised.

I don't remember where I read this but I wrote it down in my AR Manual;

1/7 twist: 55-90gr bullets
1/8 twist: 50-85gr bullets
1/9 twist: 45-62gr bullets

Both of my ARs (16" Bushmaster A2 & 24" DPMS Varminter) are 1/9 twist and will definitely shoot 50 and 55 gr bullets well. My 24" DPMS shoots Hornady 75gr BTHPs under 3/4" at 100 yards and will shoot Hornady 55gr Spire Points (#2265), 55gr FMJ-BTs (#2267) and Nosler 55gr Ballistic Tips under 3/8", consistantly at 100 yards. Just saying - don't give up on the 1/8 twist, it will probably surprise you.

Your bullet weights for the 1:9 twist are overly restrictive at both ends. The 1:9 also shoots 40grn bullets very well too. Both my RRAs are 1:9 twist and also shoot 68grn Hornady and 69grn Sierra bullets extremely well. My son's Savage bolt gun with a 1:9 twist also loves the 68grn Hornadys I load for my 20" AR and he gets nice 5/8" groups with it at 100 yds (young eyes and body). Further, you yourself said your DPMS with a 1:9 shoots Hornady 75grn BTHPs at under 3/4" at 100 yds so that bullet will work too, however, I had heard that some 1:9 barrels won't quite stabilize it reliably which is why I only shoot the 68grn Hornadys in my scoped 20" AR and have good results out to 400 yds with it. So, the range for the 1:9 is more properly 40-69grns with likely 75grn BTHPs (as these can be loaded at magazine lengths) and most 1:9 barrels will stabilize them.

Steve, the bullets weights as they pertain to barrel twist was something that I read years ago and wrote down in my AR book; it is not, nor did I claim, that it was developed nor derived by me in any way. My sole point is that he shouldn't give up on light bullets because of the twist rate of his barrel. As you stated, correctly, mine shoots a variety of bullet weights well.

[Sixgun]

A buddy of mine who shoots at Camp Perry did everything posible to destroy 45 gr. bullets in flight with a 1-7 twist barrel----and could not do it---He told me they shoot great.

Its probably not for every rifle but if you like 'em, go for it. I personally like the 69 gr. Sierra match bullet in my Colt 6940 with the 1-7---these will bust clay birds at 500 meters---or be very close--------Sixgun

[2571]

Saw the title & figured he bought the new Mossberg levergun.

Want one bad but can't find them for sale.

[tman]

All citizens should be not only allowed, but encouraged to posses and practice with the American infantry's combat rifle, in this case, a fully auto/selective fire M4. True meaning of the second amendment.

[93marshooter]

I am astonished and encouraged about how many AR companies and 1911 makers are around. A chicken in every pot and rifle in every closet.